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is this worth clocking?

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ScrewySqrl

Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Location
NC
I have put together a 'salvage' computer from an old PC of my sisters and other items I have lying around.

Its in a generic case with a 92mm fan exaust in the back, an 80mm side intake fan right over the CPU.
The Motherboard is a Biostar BIOSTAR MCP6P M2+ model (am2+)
the CPU is a Phenom I 9650 @ 2.3 GHz.
4 GB (2x2GB) of DDR2 800 RAM, generic.
120 GB SATA 1.5 HDD
8x DVD Burner
16x DVD ROM
I bought a Thermaltake TR2-R1 92mm heatsink for it.
I put an old, but never used 500W Ultra PSU in it (with 28 amps on the 12v line)
and my old 512M HD 4850 in it.

I have it currently hooked up to the TV for Hulu/youtube and have put the pseudo-chrome version of SuSE 11.4 on it.


the question is: should I try to overclock it? if I do, what is likely to be a stable overclock level for the parts listed?

Prior to my rebuilding it, the cpu was overheating due to a failed heat sink (I found cat hair & dust between the sink and the pu when I took it off!, and the main bearing of the zalman-style flower heat sink was clogged with cat hair as well), as well as the fact there were no case fans on the system at all. That sink has been tossed out, thus buying the new sink.

I worry the previous overheating may have given the system some long term damage, although its purring along nicely now at 35C.
 
Okay you have rig hooked up to tV for Hulu etc. So we must assume it works? Linux distros are famed for using less computing power to do work than winders. What would be the use of overclocking the rig?
 
Okay you have rig hooked up to tV for Hulu etc. So we must assume it works? Linux distros are famed for using less computing power to do work than winders. What would be the use of overclocking the rig?

mostly just to see if I can, really, as a mostly Free PC, there isn't a lot of money tied into it if it fries.

It might also work as a light gamer with teh HD4850 in it (the 4850 will struggle above medium settings at 1920x1080, but hey, it should look pretty at least), a lot of games would go through WINE, so the more muscle the better.
 
Sokay den. Go find you an alternative to HWMonitor or CoreTemp for your Linux distro and get it working. Certainly cannot do any overclocking without knowing what the cpu core temp is when idle and loaded with Prime95. While you are looking you might as well find the Linux version of Prime95 or very close approximation of a stressing application for applying the "load" to test stability.
 
Would be an alright system to cut your teeth on, however its not a good impression of usual AMD overclocking. If you built a system, or you were buying used parts, we'd recommend a different CPU so that you'd have a better OCing experience.

The problem is I don't believe the Phenom 9650 is a Black Edition chip. With Phenom's, the black edition branding indicates it has an unlocked multiplier. For anyone who doesn't know anything about OC'ing, that means you can change the CPU clock speed without impacting any other component in the system. Why does that matter? It can be really easy to increase the CPU multiplier by half a step, a step, or two steps. If it doesn't work, you know you need to check load temps and decide if you are ok with increasing CPU voltage to try again to see if it works - if the answer is no, you have hit a wall and you reduce the multiplier a step and see if you are stable then. So that is the easiest way to get your first overclock, by changing the multiplier. That is one reason why people say BE chips are better for overclocking. They give you more options for changing CPU frequency, and can be that easy if you want to keep things simple.

However for CPUs that don't have unlocked multipliers, we have to change the reference frequency. Multiple components of the system get their clock speed from the reference frequency, which means changing it may affect the stability of various components - CPU, cpu-nb, memory, etc. This makes the system more sensitive to overclocking, and if the system gives you an error or crashes, you need to do some things to figure out what is causing the problem. Without confusing anyone with too many details right now, you can understand how that makes things more complicated. You aren't more likely to damage anything really, but it can get trickier figuring out what settings are stable or not. Not a huge problem, but its extra work that some people may not be into - depends how badly you want to overclock the system and what your goals are.

If you are just out to overclock for the first time, or see what extra you can get out of it - I think its fine for that purpose, and is as good as anything to learn with. If later on you have a chip with an unlocked multiplier, you already know how to overclock at that point, and then you also have the added flexibility of knowing that you can also change the CPU multiplier to get extra clocks.

Other than that, a few other tidbits:

- You don't have to worry about killing things when you overclock, unless you do something crazy with increasing voltage. You can start by only increasing frequency, and that won't damage anything. If you increase frequency too far, you'll know because the system will fail to start or crash. Then you need to reset BIOS, which will put all settings back to default, and try again with lower settings than you tried last time. Taking notes on what you tried that worked and didn't work will help you find your limits.

- When overclocking, there are 2 main tests. The first is does it load windows? If it does, you might have a good overclock. If it doesn't, you need to go back to BIOS and reduce your clock settings or bump your voltage up. The second test is does it give errors or crash? You find this out by loading a temp monitor, then running a stress program to see if the system is stable under load. Some people use prime95 to test stability - it will put load on the processor, and you will get an error quickly if you are have bad settings. If your settings are pretty good, you won't receive any error, or you won't receive one until hours into the test. If it takes a long time to get an error, your settings are pretty good, and you might just need to improve airflow or cooling to keep it completely stable. Or you might need to back off a bit.

- Fun overclocking in my experience is a little bit of knowledge, and a lot of trial and error. When I hit a problem, I ask here for advice. Otherwise, I try things out and try to understand what works and what doesn't - thats the fun part for me. If you get frustrated, we have guides and lots of advice - I turn to them when I hit problems, or I do searches to find what settings worked for other people with a similar processor or motherboard.

As for Linux, for CPU temp monitoring you need the lm_sensors package. You can use lm_sensors from the CLI/terminal/command line window. That will display temps in plain text. If you want a "regular application" that displays temps in a GUI, ksensors would do the trick - if you want something fancier, you can search for alternatives to ksensors. I haven't used SUSE on a daily basis, so I don't have other apps to recommend. As with everything in Linux however, there are plenty of options, you may just need to search a little or ask for recommendations from others with more experience.

A good place for any linux questions is our Alternative OS forum, the guys in there have taught me everything I know that I didn't learn on my own. In everything but the most ridiculous questions, they have been able to point me in the right direction:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25

We have a pretty good thread about getting WINE setup correctly. If not setup well, WINE can run into unnecessary headaches and/or bad performance. If setup well, and the game is listed as being pretty compatible in the WINE appdb, your experience should be pretty good. Here is our guide:
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=605456

If you have other questions, or want more specifics, fire away. Or start a new thread that is more specific with your CPU model in the title, if you want more details about actually overclocking your chip, a new thread is probably a good bet so that people know the exact topic and come to help with that.
 
I have a Phenom 9650 and I cannot for the life of me squeeze even a few MHz out of it: I don't think they're the best chips for overclocking, and were far surpassed by the Phenom II series.
 
I have a Phenom 9650 and I cannot for the life of me squeeze even a few MHz out of it: I don't think they're the best chips for overclocking, and were far surpassed by the Phenom II series.

So you suspect the 9650 will not overclock at all?
 
"David" said he had zero success getting his 9650 to overclock at all. Some g00gling found a lot of people estimating that if one were lucky with the older 9650 that one might be able to overclock by 300Mhz. If that were the 'extra' speed you gained then you would be at 2.6Ghz. Yes if you g00gle that cpu and a max overclock list you may find some getting 2.7, 2.8, up to about 3.0Ghz but they were surely few and far between. Nothing like the good overclocks with AMD cpus of today.
 
Why my first post asked about O'clking Hulu TV...


Budget Coolers for AMD Platform Part 2 where they graph out the individual coolers.

On the graph count down to the 8th cooler from top and you will see your Thermaltake cooler. Not impressive since the cooler is mounted on a single core 3700+ processor and you have a 4core processor.


When you first posted the other day I went and did some checking since I had my doubts about the cooler you purchased, but other things came up and I did not post this about how weak that cooler is for cooling and especially so since you are using it on top of a 4core processor.

I had read this before my first post where I asked why would you try to overclock a working system that offloaded your Hulu tV and stuff. I was thinking in my mind that your cooling was so minimal or likely so that overclocking might be messing with my tV and that would be a no no if stability goes out the window.

Heck if you look at that chart you will see even an OEM cooler that is in a boxed A64 4400+ beats the cooler you have.
 

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Budget Coolers for AMD Platform Part 2 where they graph out the individual coolers.

On the graph count down to the 8th cooler from top and you will see your Thermaltake cooler. Not impressive since the cooler is mounted on a single core 3700+ processor and you have a 4core processor.


When you first posted the other day I went and did some checking since I had my doubts about the cooler you purchased, but other things came up and I did not post this about how weak that cooler is for cooling and especially so since you are using it on top of a 4core processor.

I had read this before my first post where I asked why would you try to overclock a working system that offloaded your Hulu tV and stuff. I was thinking in my mind that your cooling was so minimal or likely so that overclocking might be messing with my tV and that would be a no no if stability goes out the window.

Heck if you look at that chart you will see even an OEM cooler that is in a boxed A64 4400+ beats the cooler you have.


I got it because it was rated for a 95W CPU, which is what I have, and it was relatively cheap -- the rest of the PC was parts lying around, so I don't want to spend much money at all. I had planned to get the slightly cheaper CoolerMaster Hyper 101, which is also considerably newer than this one, but it was sold out at the time. Others in this price range were even OLDER designs, or very lightweight designed for a 65W CPU. As it is, right now, the CPU purrs along at 35C according to the BIOS. It sounds like, overall, I'd get little overclock at all out of this system (300 MHz isn't much overclock), so I'm probably best leaving it alone at stock, where it'll be a happy Hulu/youtube/lightweight gamer PC for years to come.
 
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It may look like this...

1. Well at the lower 2.3Ghz that the cpu starts with, even 300Mhz increase in cpu speed would be about 12.5% increase in cpu speed.

2. Using Linux it would require that you get some software that a lot of us don't use to monitor your temps and check voltages when idling and working. We just hate to tell someone to just throw some extra speed at a rig without being able to verify that the overclock is stable and not overheating.

3. It is true that the very nature of the 9650 cpu is not well noted for huge overclocks. However that is the nature of the beast when overclocking since no amount of overclock is ever a sure thing.

4. In a forum setting most of us really do not try and push someone else's rig into an unsafe zone, no matter what we might do to our own rigs. That is because I can decide for my ownself just what I am willing to risk in temps and possible instability. Not often but once or twice I have overclocked my own system and then crashed and had to reinstall the operating system. NO not often but it happens. Well for me that sort of thing is/was no big step since I was testing two or three motherboards a week and making sometimes 10 or 15 different configs of memory, cpu and motherboard a week. Loading windows probably 10 times per week. Truthfully though, few of us would wish that on someone else.

5. All that said a few Mhz cpu speed increase might be useful to you. That may no longer be true since you don't think that 300Mhz cpu speed increase is much overclock. Well against some of these later cpus, that 300Mhz is not the huge speed increase that some find possible. You just are not in that group of cpu owners.

6. All of that said, I usually will take any minor overclock that I feel will not sacrifice the security/stability of my system. Well now you know. Key here is the " I ". Were it me I would be getting the newer N61PB-M2S_BIOS_080610.pdf manual and looking on page #35 and #36 and at this menu item:

CPU Frequency
This item allows you to select the CPU Frequency.
The Choices: 200.0 (default), 201.0~450.0. << and entering 205 in that menu section and testing to see if Linux boots and runs without issue for a few days. Then I would likely try 210 in that menu section and see what the outcome is again. If you got to 210 in that menu, you would have added 115 Mhz to the cpu speed.

If I got that extra 115Mhz free without failure, I would be saying to myself...ah hah done that. Again that is me. Cannot say how it is for others.

Of course in that same general menu area you might have to add some Vcore. You might have to ensure that your ram has all the recommended voltage it can have. You might have to raise either or all of these other voltages:

CHIP VID Control
This function allows you to adjust the chipset voltage.
The Choices: Default (default), +0.04, +0.08, +0.12

HT Voltage Control
This function allows you to adjust the HT voltage.
The Choices: Default (default), +0.02V.

NPT Vid control
This function allows you to adjust the FSB voltage.
The Choices: Auto (default), 0.3875v ~ 1.550v

Beyond 210ish in that CPU Frequency bios section, you may well have to begin a real live bios tweaking session to keep your stability. Temps might get out of hand. All those things most of us that overclock, do by rote. We just know it is part of the deal.

Now it is laid out as truthfully as I think anyone can. Give the CPU Frequency a gentle bump and see what happens if you are willing after knowing more about overclocking. If you get a noticeable boost then it might be an idea to you to try and get even a little more. But beyond 210 set in CPU Frequency, I would greatly suggest you acquire some temp and voltage monitoring software to use within Linux.

Either way, have a little dose of happy computering.
 
1. Well at the lower 2.3Ghz that the cpu starts with, even 300Mhz increase in cpu speed would be about 12.5% increase in cpu speed.

2. Using Linux it would require that you get some software that a lot of us don't use to monitor your temps and check voltages when idling and working. We just hate to tell someone to just throw some extra speed at a rig without being able to verify that the overclock is stable and not overheating.

3. It is true that the very nature of the 9650 cpu is not well noted for huge overclocks. However that is the nature of the beast when overclocking since no amount of overclock is ever a sure thing.

4. In a forum setting most of us really do not try and push someone else's rig into an unsafe zone, no matter what we might do to our own rigs. That is because I can decide for my ownself just what I am willing to risk in temps and possible instability. Not often but once or twice I have overclocked my own system and then crashed and had to reinstall the operating system. NO not often but it happens. Well for me that sort of thing is/was no big step since I was testing two or three motherboards a week and making sometimes 10 or 15 different configs of memory, cpu and motherboard a week. Loading windows probably 10 times per week. Truthfully though, few of us would wish that on someone else.

5. All that said a few Mhz cpu speed increase might be useful to you. That may no longer be true since you don't think that 300Mhz cpu speed increase is much overclock. Well against some of these later cpus, that 300Mhz is not the huge speed increase that some find possible. You just are not in that group of cpu owners.

6. All of that said, I usually will take any minor overclock that I feel will not sacrifice the security/stability of my system. Well now you know. Key here is the " I ". Were it me I would be getting the newer N61PB-M2S_BIOS_080610.pdf manual and looking on page #35 and #36 and at this menu item:

CPU Frequency
This item allows you to select the CPU Frequency.
The Choices: 200.0 (default), 201.0~450.0. << and entering 205 in that menu section and testing to see if Linux boots and runs without issue for a few days. Then I would likely try 210 in that menu section and see what the outcome is again. If you got to 210 in that menu, you would have added 115 Mhz to the cpu speed.

If I got that extra 115Mhz free without failure, I would be saying to myself...ah hah done that. Again that is me. Cannot say how it is for others.

Of course in that same general menu area you might have to add some Vcore. You might have to ensure that your ram has all the recommended voltage it can have. You might have to raise either or all of these other voltages:

CHIP VID Control
This function allows you to adjust the chipset voltage.
The Choices: Default (default), +0.04, +0.08, +0.12

HT Voltage Control
This function allows you to adjust the HT voltage.
The Choices: Default (default), +0.02V.

NPT Vid control
This function allows you to adjust the FSB voltage.
The Choices: Auto (default), 0.3875v ~ 1.550v

Beyond 210ish in that CPU Frequency bios section, you may well have to begin a real live bios tweaking session to keep your stability. Temps might get out of hand. All those things most of us that overclock, do by rote. We just know it is part of the deal.

Now it is laid out as truthfully as I think anyone can. Give the CPU Frequency a gentle bump and see what happens if you are willing after knowing more about overclocking. If you get a noticeable boost then it might be an idea to you to try and get even a little more. But beyond 210 set in CPU Frequency, I would greatly suggest you acquire some temp and voltage monitoring software to use within Linux.

Either way, have a little dose of happy computering.

Sounds like I should experiment (which was my goal all along, just do some experimentation).
because I apparently have a low quality motherboard (Personally, I never *buy* Biostar..but this was free), and apparently a bad choice in my heat sink, I plan to not must anything out of voltage, and just see what I can see..

So here's my plan for this weekend: Load Prime 95 for Linux and find some temperature monitoring software for it (there should be several choices), and let that run for, oh, at least an hour or three in its current state just for temp reading (I'd be very surprised if a stock CPU had prime 95 errors, so it'll just be to raise temps.)

what I see of 35C in the bios is mostly after its been running idle or just some light web browsing for a couple days. I think I can safely call the 35C an effective idle temp. my ambient temps run ~23-25C, so +10-12C at idle isn't bad.

Since my heat sink is crappy, and its an old PSU with a voltage regulator that was sitting unused (never actually powered a PC at all), and the case fans are small (92mm an d80mm) I will set myself a personal rule of no voltage changes.

I'll also start a new thread tonight with the full specs (part numbers, RAM types/timing/voltages, etc) before I get started.
 
Sounds like I should experiment (which was my goal all along, just do some experimentation).
because I apparently have a low quality motherboard (Personally, I never *buy* Biostar..but this was free), and apparently a bad choice in my heat sink, I plan to not must anything out of voltage, and just see what I can see.
Well I would not say it is Biostars fault. It is the "grade" of motherboard and all manufacturers make those cheaper entry level boards.


So here's my plan for this weekend: Load Prime 95 for Linux and find some temperature monitoring software for it (there should be several choices), and let that run for, oh, at least an hour or three in its current state just for temp reading (I'd be very surprised if a stock CPU had prime 95 errors, so it'll just be to raise temps.)
Getting a baseline is the very best of ideas. We get peeps all the time that don't get that drift. Awesome man.

Since my heat sink is crappy, and its an old PSU with a voltage regulator that was sitting unused (never actually powered a PC at all), and the case fans are small (92mm an d80mm) I will set myself a personal rule of no voltage changes.
You actually do not have 'any' outrageous voltage 'jump' choices in your bios for vCore if my memory is correct on what I saw looking in that boards manual. A single bump or even the middle one and close look at temps would not be greatly out of line. (in my guesstimation).

I'll also start a new thread tonight with the full specs (part numbers, RAM types/timing/voltages, etc) before I get started.
Another awesome idea. I think you get it for sure about getting around in a forum.

You can put that pertinent information in your signature and it will follow each post and helpers will not have to go back to first post to see what is in the case.

Sigs are pretty easy.

Be logged in to the forum.

Across the top of the forum is a button shown as 'user cp'. Click that button.

On the page that loads are a list of options down the left side of the page.

Under the Settings & Options menu area is a Edit Signature listing. Click on that listing.

Clicking Edit Signature opens another page. In the middle of that page is where you Edit YOUR signature.

Enter your information there and at bottom of the window you are entering your signature is button for either Preview Signature or Save Signature. Do save and you will have your signature incorporated into the forum in each of your posts. Of course Preview Signature will let you see 'how' your signature would appear in the forum. But in the end the Save Signature must be clicked to save it to the forum.

You can look at my signature for a template of some good stuffz to put in one's own signature when seeking help.

Good luck man.
 
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