Just got interviewed by microsoft! wee.

[technoViking]

I thought I'd post this here to other computer science majors.

Well after looking over my resume they thought I deserved a phone interview. So I get all prepared skipped spanish 2 because they gave me a 1 day notice they were calling me. So I had to really focus.

Instead of focusing I actually took a nap (1:00pm to 4:00pm) when I should have been at Spanish (interview was at 7:15pm), I think it actually helped me though.

I wasn't really nervous because I already have a job at IBM but this is how the interview went.

He calls me, and first thing, I can't understand a word he is staying. He has such a strong Asian accent. I was like, SOB!

I usually am a smooth talker when it comes to interviews but this guy wasn't listening to a word I would say. It sounded so automated he was just reading it off a piece of paper.

He first said, HOW ARE U.
I said, Great thanks, how are you doing?
GOOD TO MEET YOU.

SO WHY DO U WANT THIS JOB?

WHAT IS YOUR INTEREST IN PROGRAMMING?

WHAT WAS MOST CHALLENGING PROGRAMMING?

HOW DO U SOLVE THE PROBLEM TECHNICALLY?


He then says, CAN U LOG INTO LIVECHAT?
I say, sure, one moment.

I log into the live chat.
Note: Live chat is a program that is basically like a chat room, he can see you type and I can see what he types.

He gets kicked out of the program a few times before he gets in there, then he pastes this to the screen:

He said, please write solution.
Suppose you want to randomize an array of 52 values, from 0 to 51 with no repeats, such as you might want for a deck of cards. Make sure the shuffle is as thorough as possible.


I did it.


He then try's to ask me the complexity of my algorithm, I had to guess about 10 times before I figured out what he was even asking. He made it sounds like he wanted test cases or something. Finally I guessed, did you mean you want to to find the complexity of my algorithm?

He was like yes yes.

So I told him and he then goes good.

He then tells me in 2 weeks I'll know if I need to come down for a 2nd interview (the 2nd interview is the hard one, its where you either get hired or not).


All in all I was very disappointed in the interview, he couldn't even speak English, I could tell he was just trying to rush through it without even getting what I was saying even though I thought I had good answers to all this questions. He would only write down a few words.

It really seems like the whole interview is based on that 1 programming question, if you get it, you get the 2nd interview, if you don't, you don't. Because he didn't get personal at all like my other interviews where I really felt like I connected with the interviewer and the interviewer cared about my responses.

If I do get a 2nd interview and I do good I'm not even sure if I'll accept it because its only for a summer.

I already know I have a job at IBM. If I reject my manager at IBM (he wants me back in the summer but no official letter so thats why I applied to Microsoft), he may keep that grudge and not want to hire me full time after I graduate in spring 2009.

Or I can take a change with Microsoft after its 3 month internship and I'll have to go through the whole interview process again (so there is no garutnee like there will be with IBM).

I might work with IBM then while I have a full time job, try to get with Microsoft it seems safer than screwing both company's and end up jobless when I graduate.

Any advice/feedback welcome.

 

[jstutman]

sounds like the government. The Interview 1's are all scripted, they dont get personal at all. Heck they dont even verify your name until they need it on paper.
Plus certain interviews I had to sign disclaimers stating I wouldnt even talk about what we went over.

 

[technoViking]

Well there are only 2 interviews, this next interview (if i made it) is going to be nuts.

Tons of people just asking you to code right in front of them on a white board.

I've only interviewed with IBM, and they seemed a lot more friendly.

 

[Captain Newbie]

sounds like the government. The Interview 1's are all scripted, they dont get personal at all. Heck they dont even verify your name until they need it on paper.
Plus certain interviews I had to sign disclaimers stating I wouldnt even talk about what we went over.

Don't stay up worrying about a call back. "We'll call you back" is a standard industry line that means anything from "Wow" to "HELL NO!"

Well there are only 2 interviews, this next interview (if i made it) is going to be nuts.

Tons of people just asking you to code right in front of them on a white board.

Ah, that's their problem. They're not looking for people who can consistently produce good code (of the variety needed to create an operating system), but rather, for flash-in-the-pan genius.

I've only interviewed with IBM, and they seemed a lot more friendly.

Microsoft is supposedly the smartest, sharpest and tech savviest (NOTE: I think Google is probably the brightest right now...) company, so their lack of communications skills are to be expected. Indeed. Most technical people can't communicate worth a good damn.

 

[technoViking]

I'm pretty confident I did make it to the second interview and I'm not worried because I already have a job at IBM, this would just be cool to experience.

I got all his answers correct and he was impressed that I had 3 submitted patents at IBM when I was only there for 8 months and all the projects I competed during my 8 month period.

If you Google interviews from Microsoft there is always a 2 week waiting period for a returned e-mail after the technical phone interview.
It wasn't a "I'll call you back" response (aka blowing you off), its we'll submit your resume to the divisions looking for people along with the technical phone interview outcome to make sure you just didn't make stuff up on your resume. Thats what the phone interview is all about, anyone can put something on their resume but they aren't going to pay for a plane ticket and pay for room and board for random people that have a good looking resume.

 

[JigPu]

Man, I fear having to code for an interviewer on a whiteboard... I'm pretty comfortable doing it (lord knows I've written out enough pseudocode on paper and whiteboards before), but all the stress from being interviewed would make me make a lot of little mistakes.

I'm going to be trying for my first full-time job later this year, so I'll be in this situation fairly soon. I'm not yet sure who I'm going to apply to, but I'm thinking of sending out my resume to anybody and everybody I can think of (can't be hired if you don't try, right? ). If anyone knows of companies to steer away from, it'd be good to hear

 

[technoViking]

JigPu, not all company's require you to do that. Some just ask easy questions. Like Lockheed martain, doesn't ask any coding questions just basic questions like what is the difference between C++ and Java, what is abstraction, etc, very basic and easy questions.

My one friend got into lockheed martin and he can't program worth ****. He honestly is one of the worst coders I know and he's starting off at 62,000 a year, not bad.

 

[Enablingwolf]

Since I lived out west for many years. I understand the problem of hearing a thick accent. I can also mimic, <pretty good> just about any accent I want. I am not going to mention details me calling HP support. Just leave it at they have issues understanding me... How ironic.

In your case. Your applying for a huge worldwide company. So you never know what accent you might encounter. You could try and find a super polite way to not say pardon me a bunch of times. If a good person knows you are having trouble understanding an accent. Usually they will help you some. Text is a great way to overcome this. I can see why the interviewer went that route.

 

[technoViking]

I agree with you Enablingwolf.

He didn't talk to me in the chat room though. The chat room was basically a virtual "whiteboard" he can see what I type and I can see what he types.

He types in the programming problem then I solve it via C++ and explain why I'm doing what I'm doing.

so it was kind of like a virtual way to see if I really knew how to code or if I was just bull****ting hah, it was pretty intense compared to coding when no one is watching over your shoulder, where you can make little mistakes here and there and fix it later when you try to compile it.

 

[Enablingwolf]

I understood it was not a chat room. Why I used the word text, really generic. It could even cover notepad. lol

I got more of the thought of that thing the old windows messenger, had called Remote Meeting. It is not a chat room but kind of acts like it. Live Chat, I would expect out of a MS rep. Would of been kind of funny if he asked if you had AIM.. But that does not have the tools Live has.

 

[MRD]

It's impersonal because Microsoft is a heartless, soulless, evil company. =P

Seriously though, I'd rather work for IBM.

Also MS is not the smartest company out there by any means. The first company I interviewed at (and worked for) had insanely high standards. One whole division was made up of international mathematics olympiads gold medalists (there are under 10 per year in the world usually) and Putnam fellows (look up the William Lowell Putnam exam if you haven't heard of it... basically top 5 students from the best universities in the country compete, max score 120, median score every year is 0). The company had a ridiculous number of Putnam fellows. They wouldn't even interview you if you didn't have an 800 on your math SAT. God the questions they asked were beyond complicated.

If you want to 1) make the most money and 2) do the most challenging work, go work in a quant hedge fund as a programmer. Those guys are way beyond the guys at Microsoft. Most of the Microsoft programmers spend their days making widgets and connecting them to functions and such, or copying ideas from Apple. Nothing terribly original really.

IBM does some cool research. My next door neighbor used to work there. He was an undergrad from Brown and did grad work at MIT. VERY smart guy. They basically paid him and told him to go think of cool stuff, and he could just do whatever he wanted. He spent most of his time playing with the electron microscopes.

Techies in finance always make more money than techies in tech, unless you're like the guy that founded the company... and I didn't know jack about finance when I started. I'm 31, and have been retired for years. That won't happen at Microsoft.

 

[technoViking]

Well after having worked with IBM its okay but not challenging at all. It might have been my department but I was a better programmer than guys who have worked there 25+ years.

The guys in my department arn't even computer science, because they had no computer science back then. They are psychologists, physics, etc, and suck at coding.

I can see myself actually becoming a worse programmer if I stayed with IBM. My department I work for is zSeries, so they focus on mainframes which is old techonlogies. Such as ASM/C/Rexx but now they are doing things in Java. But still I want to be doing cutting edge techonlogy and working on new things. IBM just isn't doing that (where I work anyways) Microsoft on the other hand is always doing new things (even if it is stealing idea's).

Microsoft also gets higher pay than IBM.

My friend got an offer from IBM, for 59k, he said f them. And got a much higher salary at CISCO.

I heard people at microsoft start off at 80k which is much more than IBM.
IBM also has a high number of unhappy employee's, they even have ALLIANCES online.

Check out this:
http://www.allianceibm.org/

Statement of Principles:
Alliance@IBM/CWA Local 1701 is an IBM employee organization that is dedicated to preserving and improving our rights and benefits at IBM. We also strive towards restoring management's respect for the individual and the value we bring to the company as employees. Our mission is to make our voice heard with IBM management, shareholders, government and the media. While our ultimate goal is collective bargaining rights with IBM, we will build our union now and challenge IBM on the many issues facing employees from off-shoring and job security to working conditions and company policy.


Here's some nice quotes:

Comment 11/24/07:
Years Service = 7
Message = Welcome to IBM, -Shocked-. As you can see by your meager raises IBM doesn't give a rat's arse about a person who's had 1's on their PBC's and just got promoted. That raise is an insult if you ask me. I have found a better life outside IBM and I love it. 7 years I spent there and now I am free. There are truly better opportunities out there if you have the guts to look for them and take them. It won't get any better trust me. For those who complain about people persuading others to quit, suck it up. Life isn't fair but it's about what you can get. You can spend the rest of your life trying to change IBM or you can find a better job elsewhere like I did. It's really up to you. Cheers! -maximus- Comment 11/24/07:
Salary = 60,000
Band Level = 7
Job Title = 08A Project Manager
Years Service = 8
Hours/Week = Less than 40
Location = WFH
Message = Came into IBM wthout a BS at a Band 6 paid $42K (Took a pay cut from $49K i got as a contractor because IBM would pay for my education). Finished my Bachelor's, got my PMP, got my promotion, received 2 different 7% raises due to Salary inequity because i COMPLAINED up the chain to management. I did all my research and provided it to management. The thing is, when I was making $42K with 4 years of experience, a woman was hired at $55K who knew LITERALLY NOTHING. We finally figured out she would alternate asking different team members how to do stuff. I was lowballed in the beginning and am definitely underpaid, so I dont put in the hours. -Anonymous- Comment 11/21/07: To all band 03's: please give some data for the salary survey. What do you have to lose by disclosing? Or can we conclude there just are not too many band 03's in IBM? -Anonymous- Comment 11/21/07:
Band Level = 7
Job Title = Software engineer
Years Service = 3
Hours/Week = 60+
Div Name = SWG
Message = I've just been promoted to band 7 this month and was told to expect a salary increase with the promotion. I've been lucky enough the last two years to get 2% and 3.3% raise, with excellent evaluations (1's every year) and several peer awards and outside recognition. I reviewed my compensation information today and I received a 3% raise for my promotion, even less than my raise as a band 6. To put it lightly I was shocked. Is this the normal amount received for a promotion? I have talked with several other colleagues and they have stated a range of about 8-12% for their promotions, with 6% being the lowest they ever heard of. I am seriously considering asking for a larger raise. 3% just seems ridiculous and gives no motivation to even try to get another promotion. Can others on this forum post some raise information for promotions, and I would also appreciate any advice on how to go about discussing this with management. -Shocked-

 

[MRD]

If you really want the high starting salary, go into finance. 10 years ago, hedge funds were starting people at 100k with 20k starting bonuses out of college. There were people who were 1 year in getting million dollar, and higher, bonuses.

If your real goal is to be doing the MOST cutting edge stuff, go work at a university or do grad studies there, eventually to become a prof. Salaries can be decent, but you'll never make the millions you'll make in finance. My former comp sci prof got a MacArthur genius grant in addition to her salary.

 

[Captain Newbie]

If you really want the high starting salary, go into finance. 10 years ago, hedge funds were starting people at 100k with 20k starting bonuses out of college. There were people who were 1 year in getting million dollar, and higher, bonuses.

If your real goal is to be doing the MOST cutting edge stuff, go work at a university or do grad studies there, eventually to become a prof. Salaries can be decent, but you'll never make the millions you'll make in finance. My former comp sci prof got a MacArthur genius grant in addition to her salary.

Or you can go into airline and aircraft management and make pretty damned good money, but that takes a rather special kind of person.

The problem with academia is most academics simply haven't got a clue about ANYTHING, and are strangely competitive...

 

[MRD]

The problem with academia is most academics simply haven't got a clue about ANYTHING

Ya you're right. That must be why they keep winning all the nobel prizes and fields medals.

That's such a ridiculous statement.

There is definitely competition in academia though, especially pre-tenure. Once ppl have made a name for themselves and gotten tenure, things ease up. It's still far more cooperative than the corporate world.

And of course, salaries are not great, especially compared to the training required to achieve them... although professors (note: full professors, not associate, assistant, adjunct, etc) at my school were making well over 100k 10+ yrs ago, and a few star profs were making half a mill+. So it's not that bad. You set your own hours for the most part, enjoy near total autonomy, and have excellent job security if you get tenure, as well as the opportunity to work with great people who are highly intelligent and interesting.

 

[Captain Newbie]

The point I tried (and failed, obviously) to make was that a lot of people with a PhD, an EdD, an M.D., ..., consider themselves as an almighty authority on everything — which is simply and clearly not the case. That's what I was trying to impart.

 

[MRD]

They generally are smarter though. Overall, PhD's are smarter than non-PhD's. It's not 100% by any means, but there is a correlation between intelligence and educational attainment.

Personally, I don't have a PhD (or MD or EdD etc), but I still believe that people with PhD's are ON AVERAGE smarter than those w/o them.

With that education and intelligence frequently comes arrogance. Sometimes justified, but nonetheless irritating.

 

[Ebola]

Wow this got off topic. Anyways... Congrats on the interview.

Don't expect a huge salary out of college. I believe most IT grads start out in the low 40s these days. If your looking at a $80K job at MS it's because you have 5 years of experience after college.

The quote from the IBM guy complaining about his salary sounds about right. But it's partially his fault. He could have left at any time. If I was lowballed I wouldn't have waited 7 years to quit. Sometimes you need to change jobs. Also if his job is Union then there is probably little room for negotiating his wage. You pretty much get a COLA and 3%. It's good for some and bad for others. The ones who typically complain the most are often the ones who should be the most thankful someone keeps them employed.

MS would probably be a nice place to work for awhile. I don't share the same optimisim as you but that's just because I've been in IT too long. Typically IT jobs at any large company are boring because everything is choped up by bureacracy and you only work on a small component. And of course someone else always gets credit but that's a given. lol. The sooner you give into the system, the easier it is. If you want to change the world then get a job at a small business. You get to do everything: work horrid hours, be totally responsible, have no money, get all of the blame, but you also get to be a cutting edge programmer. So many memorys. I'll stick with working for the man.

Being smart has very little to do with test scores. Remember that game we all played as kids called memory. The same principal usually applys to test scores.

 

[MRD]

Being smart has very little to do with test scores.

That's just ridiculous, and it's something people say who aren't smart and have bad test scores or who just want to think they are smarter than their test scores indicate. =P

 

[technoViking]

It all depends.

When I took the SATs I did horriable in my math section, like a 470 or somthing, it was below average for sure. My total on the SAT was a 940 lol.

Anywho, when I was going into college as a comp sci major they told me I wouldn't make it in Calculus. I said f you. I can do it.

They said okay, but don't come crawling back here when your going to fail out.

So now 4 years later, I'm in the top 10% of my class at Penn State (and Penn State is HUGE).
I'm going to college for free because of my good grades and academic achievements. Looks like the SAT wasn't a good measurement of how well I can do math considering I got straight A's in all my math courses, Calc 1-3, linear algebra, differential equations, etc.
Not to mention physics mechanics, E&M, and quantum physics.

I will admit, I'm not smart, I just work hard.