laptop LCD in an ITX system

[Is_907]

i've been drooling over the picture frame PC at mini-itx.com for a while now and i'm wanting to know if a laptop LCD can be connected to a DVI or VGA output without too much work?

 

[pogue1000]

most laptop screens take special vga controller boards, special hirose cables and u will need to know the pinouts. and all this stuff is very expensive.

you could get a mobile lcd, that has a rca input and use like tvout from your motherboard. YOu wont have as good as quality as vga but would be the simplest and cheapest.

 

[Is_907]

ok, what if i had the whole laptop; could it be doable then?

 

[UnseenMenace]

Yes it would be easier to do with a complete laptop as all you would effectively be doing is respositioning components.
I have a ITX system with the M9000 mobo which is currently a Linux firewall, before attempting to do anything with the ITX seriously consider what use you have for it and what you want it for, the Via C3 processor does have exceptional heat properties and runs very cool but is unfortunately not of the standard of AMD and Intel processors.
I have a 1 gig AMD T-Bird which feels a lot more lively than the similary rated C3 processor and ITX all round and would replace my desktop system long before the ITX. The ITX mobo is also unfortunately pretty poor all round for overclocking..

 

[Is_907]

UnseenMenace: thanks for the info...
well, this system will be for DVDs, DivX, web browsing, chatting and a bit of HTML and PHP coding... that's all i usually do on my main desktops anyway (well, there is the occasional Worms game =)
so unless you think there's not enough power for that... (i'll be using the M9000 or M10000 board)

 

[Captain Slug]

Yeah, I'd advise giving up on the LCD conversion idea because it's cheaper to buy a decent manufactured LCD.

Is this going to be your primary machine or a secondary just for kicks mobile machine? If you plan on using it as your primary machine than I suggest going with a Duron. C3s just don't cope well and even a cheaply built Duron machine can kick a C3 in the pants when it comes to average tasks (especially graphics editing and F@H).

 

[Intrepid]

but a manufactured LCD and mod it into the ITX case. and for that kind of work I would recomend a P4 2.5 or something, you can get ITX P4s I think, and it would run fairly well, jsut attatch a 120mm fan to the side of te case for all your air coolnig needs.

 

[Is_907]

oh... there are non-C3 itx mobos?
and after seeing prices on lcd controllers i'll be putting that off for a while.

 

[Captain Slug]

oh... there are non-C3 itx mobos?

Yep.

Shuttle SV25
and the competitor Jetway B860t

New products are rumored to be released in the near future. (next quarter)

 

[Is_907]

interesting... where does one purchase a ITX board?

 

[Captain Slug]

interesting... where does one purchase a ITX board?

Newegg, Directron, Idot.com, and caseoutlet.com are the only ones I know of.

THere aren't very many models available and most of them are part of a barebones system.

 

[UnseenMenace]

I am afraid that you are WRONG All Mini ITX motherboards are powered by Via processors either the Eden or the C3. The form factor requires the processor to be hard soldered to the mobo.. The Mini ITX form factor is 170 mm x 170mm square and is the smallest desktop form factor available.
The small form factor which features the P4 and AMD processor solutions is called Flex-ATX and is larger and higher than Mini-ITX..
Flex ATX is effectively a full size motherboard shrunk by removing slots and features, it still has the same power requirements and heat respective to a full size motherboard, its simply smaller

 

[UnseenMenace]

Newegg, Directron, Idot.com, and caseoutlet.com are the only ones I know of.

THere aren't very many models available and most of them are part of a barebones system.

There are currently 5 Mini-ITX motherboards widely available with another just released, the Mini-ITX by its very virtue is a barebones system as all come with embeded processor, 6 Channel audio, 10/100 Ethernet, USB 2, and TV-Out support. While the 'M' specifications come with firewire and a hardware decoder. The EPIA 5000 comes with a fanless Eden processor while the EPIA 800, EPIA ME 6000, EPIA M 9000 use the Via C3 processor which requires and cooling fan.. The M1000 has just been released but people have been experiencing a few problems with it.

 

[UnseenMenace]

UnseenMenace: thanks for the info...
well, this system will be for DVDs, DivX, web browsing, chatting and a bit of HTML and PHP coding... that's all i usually do on my main desktops anyway (well, there is the occasional Worms game =)
so unless you think there's not enough power for that... (i'll be using the M9000 or M10000 board)

I would most definitely go with the M9000 which should be very suitable as it ships with a hardware decoder for smooth playback, there is only one DDR slot on it and the onboard graphics and system requirements like to take a fair chunk of the system resources so make certain you go for a tasty amount of memory (under 256 and it runs like a 3 legged dog). Do not worry about overclocking as its very difficault and becomes flakey when pushed even just a little.
The system would be most capable of doing what you list here unless attempting to do a number of them at the same time, multitasking is not the via's stong point imho.
If you could give up worms then you may want to consider installing Linux on it as there is a whole community dedicated to this and because its not as resource hungry as Windows it generally runs well.
If you understand the Mini-ITX and know its limitations then its a great and fun system to build and own, however its not a system upgrade for most people

 

[Is_907]

note to self: don't get M10000
i was planning on the M10000 or M9000 so i guess it'll be the 9000.

oh and Linux doesn't mean giving up worms... there are many clones of the worms games and there's always Wine =)

anyhow, i'm still a bit puzzled by all the confusion over ITX and Mini-ITX... but it's somewhat a moot point since i know what board i'm getting.

thanks all!

 

[Captain Slug]

I am afraid that you are WRONG All Mini ITX motherboards are powered by Via processors either the Eden or the C3. The form factor requires the processor to be hard soldered to the mobo.. The Mini ITX form factor is 170 mm x 170mm square and is the smallest desktop form factor available.
The small form factor which features the P4 and AMD processor solutions is called Flex-ATX and is larger and higher than Mini-ITX..

Shuttle makes ITX P4 and socket 370 systems but don't recommend those since you can only get them in conjunction with the case, PSU, and heatsink unit. ECS and Biostar are also developing Socket 370 ITX and Mini-ITX motherboards. They accomples fitting the parts in such a tiny space by moving some of the integrated chips onto the back of the PCB.

Flex ATX alots space for 3, sometimes 4 expansions slots. It's max dimensions are 9.4" x 7.5"

ITX alots for two PCI slots and measures 7.5" x 7.5"

Mini-ITX alots for only one expansion slot and measures 6.9" x 6.9"

The variety of ITX and Mini-ITX boards is greater outside of the United States because the U.S. market is primarily that of the gaming arena. And area in which the small integrated boards don't perform as well in. A number of Mini-ITX products have to be special ordered or imported directly from the manufacturer.

 

[UnseenMenace]

Shuttle makes ITX P4 and socket 370 systems but don't recommend those since you can only get them in conjunction with the case, PSU, and heatsink unit. ECS and Biostar are also developing Socket 370 ITX and Mini-ITX motherboards. They accomples fitting the parts in such a tiny space by moving some of the integrated chips onto the back of the PCB.

Flex ATX alots space for 3, sometimes 4 expansions slots. It's max dimensions are 9.4" x 7.5"

ITX alots for two PCI slots and measures 7.5" x 7.5"

Mini-ITX alots for only one expansion slot and measures 6.9" x 6.9"

The variety of ITX and Mini-ITX boards is greater outside of the United States because the U.S. market is primarily that of the gaming arena. And area in which the small integrated boards don't perform as well in. A number of Mini-ITX products have to be special ordered or imported directly from the manufacturer.

Shuttle do not make Mini ITX based systems they make small form factor systems look here . The small form factor is Flex ATX.. Email them to check. Small form factor is simply not the same as Mini form factor.
its also worth looking at the specification required for a product to be considered Mini-ITX

1.1. What is the mini-ITX form factor?
Whilst sharing much with it's older siblings Micro-ATX & Flex-ATX, mini-ITX is actually quite different in some very important ways

The maximum mainboard size is only 170mm x 170mm, where Flex/Micro-ATX can be much bigger.
A Mini-ITX PSU is less than 100 Watts.

Now unless im mistaken, have you ever tried running a pentium 4 on 100 Watts, Intel did and that is why they specify a higher power requirement and produce the mobile processors for systems that did not have vast amounts of power available to them such as laptops.

The ONLY company currently producing Mini ITX motherboards is Via and you can get them from major suppliers. Via do not sell to the public. There are 5 flavors of the Mini ITX available worldwide with a 6th just hitting about to hit the market in certain areas, without requiring integrated chips onto the back of the PCB, it still manages to be 33% smaller than the small for fator which powers the shuttle systems

Via's Specification of the Mini ITX Form Factor

I am very interested that ECS and Biostar are apparently considering the form factor and was wondering if you could provide a link to this information or a source

 

[Is_907]

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/b860t/
a Jetway SFF (Small Form Factor) which seems to fit Slug's description of ITX (larger than mini-itx)

 

[UnseenMenace]

http://www.mini-itx.com/reviews/b860t/
a Jetway SFF (Small Form Factor) which seems to fit Slug's description of ITX (larger than mini-itx)

Yes the small form factor is Flex or Micro ATX... show me a ITX mobo

A point was made of saying that Shuttle for example make P4 ITX based systems and this is something that I can not find anything about, even on shuttles site.
A small form factor has the standard power requirements of a PC as that is effectivelty what it is.... a shrunk motherboard with less components. While the ITX based system has specificly 'low power' requirements.

A search for 'ITX form factor' in google brings up Via's Mini-ITX products, while a search for ITX generally does the same, although admittedly it allows you to find an old technology article a couple of pages back about ITX which was Mini-ITX before the processor was embeded and in development and the form factor finalised into mini-itx.. however no products were made as far as I am aware and there is no mention of a ITX form factor on Via's site only Mini-ITX

You can get full specification of the 'small form factor' from google, not to mention ATX and Mini-ITX so why can you not ITX.

Forget about Small Form Factor fitting a discription, I am simply stating that I am yet to see a P4 based ITX form factor system, and as of yet I have not been provided with a link which does so.

Very interesting system though thanks for the link
wow the back panel view of the system looks like it has a large power supply and the 125 w requirements of it along with the chosen processor is probably the reason why.
Its a great specification little box, but its how little heat the C3's push out which make it possible to put them in exceptionally small enclosed spaces.

 

[Captain Slug]

Shuttle do not make Mini ITX based systems they make small form factor systems look here . The small form factor is Flex ATX.. Email them to check. Small form factor is simply not the same as Mini form factor.
its also worth looking at the specification required for a product to be considered Mini-ITX

The Mini-ITX whitepaper itself lists ITX (not mini) on page 7 as being 215mm x 191mm.

The FV25 It's the first production model Mini-ITX Socket 370 board. It's their most popular seller in their barebones line. he Jetway board is a direct competitor to this one which regularly sells in JUST the barebones machine. But outside the US in a number of places the board can be purchase seperately.

Their other models are Flex ATX. I had Flex-ATX confused with Mini-ATX (as most retailer do as well). The only difference between Flex ATX and ITX seems to be a matter of power consumption expectations and a mere 15mm difference in depth. They even have the same mounting holes.
Here's a whitepaper on Flex ATX that I'd never seen before.

So I was wrong about a couple of them. But there's no huge difference between the two. (Then I guess were were both right )

I am very interested that ECS and Biostar are apparently considering the form factor and was wondering if you could provide a link to this information or a source

The Sudhian Media forum has report that the ECS U-Buddie line is ITX form factor.
There are a large number of products being released in the ITX, Flex-ATX, and mini-ITX form factors at current, but they're slow to migrate into the states and of number of products don't even fit those standards.

Now unless im mistaken, have you ever tried running a pentium 4 on 100 Watts, Intel did and that is why they specify a higher power requirement and produce the mobile processors for systems that did not have vast amounts of power available to them such as laptops.

The biggest developments are coming from the newer standard TFX12V power supplies with are both small, quiet, and currently can pack a 200w wallup. Most manufacturers are however optiong for 1u rackmount power supplies which max out at 300w. So as you can imagine, IF a company were to invest in it they could produce a full power machine in ITX form factor. But there's curently a very limited market in which these would sell so the R&D investment may not be worth it since these machines aren't that popular in the largest market for PCs (i.e. the US, which doesn't worry about space).