Longhorn scrapped, starting over! Now includes RSOD!

[MadSkillzMan]

there software may in certain cases be terrible, but gates is a savy business man, and he would have not gotten where he is without being one, and to scrap longhorn after pimping it for so long, would be a stupid business move

so would releasing another xp

Super Nade, 2 words, Apple Care. Yea, macs run hot. My idle temps on my g5 are 61C CPU0 and 1. Its silent though.

i would kinda think the new g4's would be alittle better since theyve been making them so long. I wouldnt be worried if i was apple, microsoft has demonstrated you can release crap, add 1 to the version number, charge 100$ and tell people its faster, and it will be sold. Look, windows 98SE, windowsME, XP reloaded oh look out! its reloaded, just like the matrix, it must be cool!

I would really like to see linux become the new desktop standard. I think i might make another PC then, or atleast a small one from my remains. What i love about every OS thats != to M$, they ALL are unix-like SOMEWHERE. its like universal. I mean, you can sit down at an AIX, UNIX, IRIX, MAC, machine, not know crap except command line, and be just fine.

Nothing lasts forever guys, linux wont forever be the second best OS, bill gates' reign of terror wont last forever either. Cmon, linux has run for me on busted hardware, windows wont run on brand new hardware.

 

[squasher]

I wouldnt be worried if i was apple, microsoft has demonstrated you can release crap, add 1 to the version number, charge 100$ and tell people its faster, and it will be sold. Look, windows 98SE, windowsME, XP reloaded oh look out! its reloaded, just like the matrix, it must be cool!

Thats funny!
The reason (in mine eyes) that mac does not do that is because of its hard-core base. A lot of my friends are heavy mac fans, I know they would be really ****ed of apple made them by stuff just to keep up.

 

[MadSkillzMan]

Yea im an apple fan, but im not gonna be all "Macs only and nothing more" no i know theres good in PC's. Not their fault everyone runs windows on them.

Something occurred to me, micro$oft should just jump on the band wagon, and build a unix-based OS. Obviosly theyre not doing something right. Look at apple, OS6-9 SUCKED. OS 9.2.2 is sort of useable. It still acts stupid being run inside osx. M$ is the only one that hasta be different from everyone.

seriosly, is M$ released a unix based os, would it not be 10x easier to port software?

And i got this neat idea, too bad they wont do it. Compiling from source, yes takes time, but when its done, it works, and it works fast. So, what if all programs released, could be compiled? however, you cannot see/modify the source code. Its not open source, its just compilable. Seems to me, you would no longer have the barrier between mac osx/windows/linux. but M$ would have to be *nix based before something that cool happened.

It wouldnt even have to be that hard, it could just be double click ya know? all OS's running portage. Then, the apps that scream on a mac (photoshp, combustion, aefx) would (i think) just run faster on the mac, and lag up a bit on PC.

downside i see is compile times. However, i LOVE being able to use GAIM/Kopete/Oo.o on a PC, turn around use it on my mac, see a (poorly) ported version to microsoft..everything just plays nicely.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

Originally Posted by threeme2189
when will apple take over and show m$ what it takes to ake good pc's?

When apple learns to make a computer you can customize with out buying a whole new system and lets, 3rd aprty developers and software makers into their market - so yeah, hen hell freezes over Oh also when they make an "affordable" system less then $500 that INCLUDES a monitor / keyboard and mouse

 

[dicecca112]

I personally won't buy a reloaded os, unless they give you the option to remove so much of the crap that runs in windows, and gives you better ways to customize it. It would have to be significantly faster for me, cut my load times in everything at least in half for me to buy it. I am fine with XP Pro.

 

[MadSkillzMan]

When apple learns to make a computer you can customize with out buying a whole new system and lets, 3rd aprty developers and software makers into their market - so yeah, hen hell freezes over Oh also when they make an "affordable" system less then $500 that INCLUDES a monitor / keyboard and mouse

well, if billy gates gets his way, longhorn will require its own special, PREBUILT PC as well. Like hes trying to pull the apple way, "Our hardware or none" So building a computer will end up in a linux box. No complaints about that really.

 

[IrQ]

If they can fix the mainstream games to run on linux, i'm with ya.

Get Cedega. It works amzingly well. And $5 dollars a month is not really that bad. You only need to subscribe for a couple months to get the programming or keep subscribing to get offical help and unlimited updates.

stupid M$ screw it up yet again.
when will apple take over and show m$ what it takes to ake good pc's?
or linux maybe?

When "people" learn not to be morons. Ever see Men In black? Tommy Lee Jones makes a good point. The person is smart. People are dumb, ignorant, and stupid, or something along those lines. Winblows is widely used because it is moron based. Any person can pick it up and use it. Im sure Mac's would have takin off if they weren't too expensive from the start. But x86 based machines with windows have been much cheaper and affordable to the general public then Macs have been since the late 80's and since the general public or People have made windows a household name while something known as MAC is for the proffesional world and far beyond anyone reach as well as entirely too expensive and complicated to use. This is what the general public blue collar worker percieves (as I have found out from many people around me and many customers) and that group of people far outway the tech savy. Also Linux, isnt even known of by many blue collor people and by many in the tech industry is a very scary thing because of it's complixety. My IT manager at work has never used Linux of any flavor and has said he never well because it is too complex.

Let's face it, the people are morons and Microsoft and Mr. Gates has learned very well on how to capitalize on that idea without offending anyone.


Edit: I just heard a news braodcast a couple days ago saying that Apple has signed a contract to use Intel processors which I believe means Aple will be going x86 based soon which would also mean more third party developers and hardware for a cheaper PC.

 

[Sjaak]

Get Cedega. It works amzingly well. And $5 dollars a month is not really that bad. You only need to subscribe for a couple months to get the programming or keep subscribing to get offical help and unlimited updates.

Do you have any more info on that?

 

[007]

I am with sjaak on that score -- if only EVERY major game AND software development company made sure their products ALSO-RAN on linux - I would be a fully fledged penguin geek....

I would swap in an instance if I new that all my stuff, games and big apps like Maya and 3dsmax worked FLAWLESSLY on linux....

It's just that the driver support for hardware like graphics cards, and USB stuff like ADSL modems and so on and so forth, is so CRUD with ANY variety of linux, that I just don't even entertain the possability anymore.

When a game like Doom 3 runs as well on linux as it does on Windows, I will swap for good - until then I will be a MS drone.

007

 

[007]

As for macs, well macs have never been a market alternative, macs are simply a lifestyle or trend..

Macs have a core fan base that are complete snobs, which is no bad thing don't get me wrong, at least not when it comes to honest snobbery like preferring one thing honestly to another..

It's like cars and there different models and the people who buy them..
you get a certain type of person who will only buy a certain type of car.

Student type - travels on the bus or by bicycle or may if their lucky an old banger of a car - and uses Linux always on second hand hardware, even though they can have access to MS windows.. why? because of that I think I am smarter than you're mentality that most have when they're students heh

Average joe bloggs 9 to 5 working guy = a normal VW Golf because they know its a good solid car and reliable and thats all they need. Thats the guy who always buys a dell PC and uses Windows..

Average Joe bloggs 9 to 5 guy but with a hobbiest want for tinkering = 2 year old VW Golf GTI because they know it can be tricked out to kingdom come with after market parts and tuned to the max, and end up being a real monster of a car that can thrash most anything on the road. Thats the sort of guy who hangs around in OC forums and tricks out his pc with after market parts - and uses Windows XP because it performs best with all the latest and greatest apps and games.

White collar dude or rich dude = each year he buys the latest Aston Martin or Porsche or BMW executive model depending on the funds available - because it links him to belonging to a unnamed elite class that marks him out as being different from your average joe - thats the sort of guy who owns a mac at home..

Macs are like the badge of this special club, you're either a mac owner or your not, there is no middle ground hehe..

Personally I have never even clicked a keyboard that belonged to a mac, never even seen a mac OS in action yet lol.

007

 

[Malpine Walis]

Now what I don't understand is why people say they will switch to the 'nix the day after they have a guaranteed painless experience. We all know that windows is far from painless (I use 2K myself, so you know where I am at). So the day that we can have what we don't already is the day when the world will move?

Somehow I don't think that will happen.

The only reason why windows is not already as hard to get started in as some versions of linux is because m$ purposely made it that way. M$ has stuff left open/turned on that we all know really ought not to be. Honestly, my guess is that they did that more because they just didn't want to field a zillion tech support calls and not because it made it any easier to try to rule the world. If all that stuff was shut down, windows would have fewer security holes and by extension fewer issues with patching stuff in what they call critical updates (which I don't use and don't really miss so they can't be all that critical). But then they would have every joe in the world calling to see how to turn stuff on every time they bought a new game.

As I say, I have hardly touched linux yet but if we compare the two systems on an equal footing (make a stripped down version of windows that has about as many services in a default install as some versions of linux) and I wonder if people would be demanding instant and painless.

On the other hand, make a beefed up version of linux (like red hat) and try selling that. Heck but my local staples gets as much for a copy of redhat as they do for most other programs. And if you get your computer from wallmart, you may just be getting that linspire thing. Now compare those to a standard copy of windows. Do you still need instant gratification or are you willing to accept a few bugs?

The problem lies in comparing the worst version of linux to XP and saying that the transition is too hard.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

Winblows is widely used because it is moron based. Any person can pick it up and use it.

no, not any person can pick it up and use it, just like not any person can pick up and use OSX / Linux or any other O/S, so i do find this statement offensive absically saying people who use windows aare morons cause they cant use anything else ?

i have done support for 7 years now and i know this for a fact! Windows is not for morrons - windows is very powerful and can be very itimidating - yes it is easier to configure then other OS's and that is WHY it is main stream *nix could learn alot from windows if it wants to become mainstream - Fedora Core is a good start.


People arent going to get smarter - so O/S's must get simpler.

 

[MadSkillzMan]

Edit: I just heard a news braodcast a couple days ago saying that Apple has signed a contract to use Intel processors which I believe means Aple will be going x86 based soon which would also mean more third party developers and hardware for a cheaper PC.

Thats a rumor thats been going on for a LONG time. Apple is getting its CPUs from IBM. Reason? Simple, ALL the software for mac would have to be re-written. Sure, adobe already has all X86 versions of its software, but then it would have to make a second x86 version to run on the x86 mac osx. This rumor has been out since 2002-2003. Trust me everyone at the mac-forums.com FREAKED OUT when some guy posted this.

linky
http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19170&highlight=intel

Personally id be really PO'd if that happened. Our amazing graphics capability comes from the RISC processors.

I would swap in an instance if I new that all my stuff, games and big apps like Maya and 3dsmax worked FLAWLESSLY on linux....

Discreet closed, so i dont think any more versions of max will be comming out. They sold out to autodesk, even though theywere a divison of autodesk. Maya works on every platform there is. It was originally written to run on IRIX. The ported it over to x86 linux, and lemme tell ya, it screams on linux. my bro runs it, its amazing. I have it for mac, its not very impressive speedwise, but yes, there is a maya linux. Just make sure your graphics card works well under linux. And if you do a quadro hack, youll be in heaven.

It's just that the driver support for hardware like graphics cards, and USB stuff like ADSL modems and so on and so forth, is so CRUD with ANY variety of linux, that I just don't even entertain the possability anymore.

ATI and Nvidia are supported nicely in MOST distros. For 3D work, Nvidia does release drivers for linux. And since linux is so tweakable, seems to me one could pull a Softquadro/SoftFireGL hack no problem

When a game like Doom 3 runs as well on linux as it does on Windows, I will swap for good - until then I will be a MS drone.

Doom 3 can run on Winex (aka Cedega) There are detailed instructions as to how to install it. Ive heard mixed results. Some say it runs way better on linux, others say itsa little laggy.

As for macs, well macs have never been a market alternative, macs are simply a lifestyle or trend..

I agree and disagree. Back when they did the eMacs, they released different colors. I knew people whod try to buy multiples just to brag what color they had. Pathedic. Or the iPod shuffle, they now have color coordinated USB covers for the bottom. you get 6 for 25$. Thats pretty stupid IMO. Or the iPod mini, costs 240$, for 5gigs. Where you can get a fullsize 20gb ipod for 250$ Or lookout, the U2 model.

Me, and every other graphics/video person will tell you, macs are amazing for that kind of work.. Thats why i bought mine, i need something to WORK, and not let me down on huge, multi media intense jobs. IMO, if linux ran all this stuff, id install it ina second. And actually once i get my hands on another Sata drive, im going to be installing gentoo on this dual G5.

Macs have a core fan base that are complete snobs, which is no bad thing don't get me wrong, at least not when it comes to honest snobbery like preferring one thing honestly to another..

I resent that.

When apple learns to make a computer you can customize with out buying a whole new system and lets, 3rd aprty developers and software makers into their market - so yeah, hen hell freezes over Oh also when they make an "affordable" system less then $500 that INCLUDES a monitor / keyboard and mouse

Now taht you mention it, your right. I got a mouse and keyboard with my mac, and i like the fact theyre USB. mouse plugs into the keyboard, accepts windows USB mice. However, i hate the mac mouse. 1 button? wtf. I used my 5 button belkin and killed it. THen i got PO'd, because apple didnt even include some nifty speakers. Cmon, i have this killer rig, and they give me the bare minimum? Sure, if i wanted an all in one computer i could have bought an iMac, but those are weak. So i side with mr guvernment on that one.

 

[IrQ]

If CNN is running rumors now then Im amazed. Their the broadcaster I heard saying Apple was going with Intel in the next couple of years.

And as for my statement saying any moron can pick up windows and use it, I am very very sorry for offending anyone but I simply can't take that comment back. I believe to strongly in what I said. And I am not saying this with a strong gripe to microsoft. On the contrary I have windows XP on my computer at the moment because it is far superior to Linux for stress testing with Overclocking. I do heavily prefer Linux though. My biggest prime example for that statement is this; My brother is rather tech savy but is scared to death of linux and couldnt hack it with Mandrake. On the other hand my 70 year old grandmother that literally never used a computer in her life nor used an ATM I had up and running with Windows in a day and taught how to navigate well "enough" through it as well as function and install applications. She is not the tech savvy nor the mechanically inclined type either. But it only took me one day to teach her the bare basics of windows and get her using it.

And as for my terminiolgy of "moron". That word I will happily retract as it may have been too harsh. I could for example use "blue collar average joe" or "not very tech savvy in any way person" next time. By Moron I use in reference to my person/people anaolgy that I made earlier in that the person is smart and people are dumb.

As for Windows being a powerfull OS. Yes it can be very powerfull and is extremely technical. But Microsoft has still made it to the point where they designed it that any "non tech savy person" can pick it up and use it as well as the very tech savvy such as you and me can turn it into a space shuttle. But I still think linux is far superior, but that's just my opinion.

 

[MadSkillzMan]

oh holy crap CNN had it? i really hope this isnt true. Thatd be one of the stupidest moves in apple's life.

 

[007]

MadSkillzMan - I don't understand why you resent my comment...

It's not meant in any negative kind-of-way far from it in fact, it's the exact opposite really.

I think the comment reads how I tried to get it across or rather express it using my limited vocabulary lol..

Perhaps I can explain it better now having had a second and third think about it.

Mac owners come in 2 flavours, your trend seekers and fashion victims, and your diehard enthusiasts.
The diehards are were nothing else will do <--- which is were I got the snobbery definition from.

Because not even looking and entertaining anything else, because in your minds eye nothing else will do, other than that which you have written in stone in your mind, is snobbery really...

Thats not meant to be a negative comment at all..

You have your car snobs, you have your clothes snobs, you have your house proud snobs even your neighbourhood snobs were the local snobs gossip about the new comers moving in around the corner and letting the standard of the neighbourhood down and all that..

Your comment above...

[[[oh holy crap CNN had it? i really hope this isn't true. That'd be one of the stupidest moves in apple's life.]]]]

in my eyes is a classic form of snobbery because in your eyes Intel isn't up to the mac image - yes??

And to clarify I will say it again, it's not meant to be taken or expressed in a negative way, it's just a word used relatively alongside elitism type thinking..

In your minds eye Macs are the best and nothing else compares, and if as above the whole image of mac is changed in some way - and that change is perceived by you to be a negative one, as in the whole Intel thing, then you don't like that, and as you say, most of the mac community wont either, that's the very definition of snobbery

I myself am a snob when it comes to Nvidia and AMD, I wont ever touch an Intel CPU and wont go near an ATI card EVER period!

Hope I explained a little better this time

007

 

[007]

PS.. yeah I had tried the nvidia drivers kernel and so on for my last little swarey with linux when I installed both slackware 9.0 and SuSE 8.1 a while back..

SuSE 8.1 was an ok os, and I managed to get the NVidia driver working, but I guess it wasn't setup properly or soemthing because I couldn't play any games on it at all...even though it stated that the nvidia kernel was running.

It's probably got alot better since then I suspect... but the support still isn't there, far from it.. if it was, we would be hearing alot more about game houses making special announcments about linux support.

AND last time I had a go with linux, which was with SuSE, there was no support what-so-ever for my USB ADSL PPP over ATM VCMUX [RFC2364] connection, and the modem it uses... there simply wasn't any driver support for it anywhere - no driver period..... the closest I got was for pppoe which isn't my con at all.

As for Maya - yeah I new it had a history with irix and was runnable on linux... I just wouldn't entertain installing and running it with linux until I could run games on linux 1st at 100FPS and above.... and set it up fairly easily myself without having to learn a whole new scritping language, and end up having to edit half a million files and so on and so forth..

As for 3dsmax, even though they have gone to Autodesk, doesn't mean 3dsmax is gone for good, in fact 3dsmax 7.5 has only just come out this month, well after the autodesk move.... 7.5 is just hair updates and cloth and so on though..

max will be around for many years to come, they may change the name slightly or something, I doubt even that really, but max isn't going anywhere, it's an industry leader as is Maya, and far to big a money earner to ditch and start from scratch all over again.

But I get were you're coming from as far as macs and graphics goes, they're industry leaders when it comes to graphics and hardware - I just cant afford them myself, and get more bang for my pound with pc hardware.



007

 

[Captain Slug]

Is an "exectuion" a management level molecular isotope?

 

[MadSkillzMan]

007,

Im not like your average mac idiot, who assumes the mac can do it all.. Ill be the first to say they SUCK at gaming, pretty **** poor at 3D work, cant even fold worht a darn. But i know what kinda people your talking about and I can see where your comming from.

I say the reason thatd suck is if they went to intel, because, all mac owners would have no backwards compatability. Sure even if its a few years down the road, but theres some OLDER programs people sitll use. For example, Paint Shop 5, (who is it on here?) it has better drawing then version 8. The only reason our graphics go better is because of the programming language. Most game consoles today are RISC. Take a look, PS2 is what 200mhz? im pretty sure its risc. Xbox however is intel, yet its at 733mhz. If intel was cranking out RISC CPU's i wouldnt care whos supplying them as long as we have the graphical performance. We get much more per MHZ when it comes to the graphics. Same way MIPS CPU's SCREAM when on 3D graphics.

EDIT: Then again, back in the G3 days, there was a PCI card you could buy. You would install a P1 CPu on it, get like 100 mhz out of it, and you could run windows on the thing at full speed, or was it atleast windows apps in bochs? i cant remember. I think if apple put both CPUs in 1 machine, thatd definently rule.

However, i was gonna do a webserver. I could use either my old G3 or a P2. I think id do the P2, id feel bad makin the G3 do something its not good at, SERVING! IMO, X86 is the way to go for any webserver needs (other than those crazy unix CPU's)

3dsmax, definently needs work lol. Im sorry but that dumb app crashes NONSTOP.

As for ATI VS nvidia, ive owned pretty much nvidia cards. I HATE THEM! Release drivers how oftem? cmon now! I only took nvidia because the guys over at CGTALK recommended Nvidia over ATI, because softquadro worked nicely, we have MaxTreme (which doesnt work for me)

I do favor apple, i wont deny it, but i do need to have PCs around. Macs cant render 3d stuff like an AMD CPU can. On the flipside, PC's cant render video and FX like a mac can. But when its the night before a project i dont give a darn and ill just say screw it, network render time. THough i will say, most the itme the windows PCs do something stupid. If you read that article some guy had in altos, about "Why this guy hates microsoft" he has a very detailed essay as to whats wrong with windows. At one point he quotes microsoft, "We installed windows server onto 10 identical servers. 2 or 3 will crash, and we do not know why"

007, the more i think about it, im just more of an anti-windows guy. really, im more just BSD/*nix. If they had after effects/combustion/final cut for linux, i probably woulda just switched to that a long time ago and been happy. The mac woulda just been onea those luxury items.

As for your linux problems, iim not surprised. However, give suse 9.2 a shot, they even have support for a LARGE amount of wireless cards. Cant you set your ADSL to DHCP? SuSE has really been fixed up a bit since 8.1.

And some users have gotten 100FPS on games. I love how ID made quake 3 on linux, didnt they do wolfenstein on linux too? But yes, under winex you can get amazing results. Also, google, Crossover OFfice, i hear the new version 4.1, has complete direct X support. Which IMO is friggen amazing, because then you can mimic enough to run a ton of games, as well as multi media apps.


Captain slug, it might be because i just installed a 20 gallon fishtank and im dead tired, but whatyou just said makes NO SENSE, yet i find it really comical.

 

[007]

regarding Captain slug's comment - it's probably one of my many typos or spelling mistakes madskills hehe

Sometimes I type far to fast for my own good and end up with gibberish for a post lol.

With regards to RT and softquadro - I tried that on my old 5600 and got a bit of a success story with it for a while - played around in max and maya and motionbuilder for a while with it - then undid it because I wanted to go gaming heh..

I could probably get a decent quadro mod out of this 6600GT but so far it's performing fine in maya and 3dsmax 7 and a few others, so maybe later down the line I will give it a go..

As for maxtreme, that does look pretty nifty - but I am unsure if that works with a softquadro modded card and not an origianl quadro with all the fancy bits unlocked at the hardware level - you shed any light on that for me madskillz??

Regarding network rendering - I am seriously thinking of setting up my old xp 2000 sometime next week to help me along with my rendering chores.. I know it's only 1 extra cpu - but will take some work from my main rig over a nights rendering...

Been thinking about getting into Softimage|XSI4.2 - I seen it working and it does look sweet

007