Max OC temps, and throttling

[jason4207]

I was thread jacking again!
Decided to move it to a new thread.

My overclocked B3 is also at 3.3/1.38v and my load temps are about as high as yours. Under prime95 the temps will go over 80C but everything remains stable. I ran for 48 hours just to be sure (24 hours just prime95, and 24 hours also using ATi tool to heat my GPU/test power consumption).

My idle temps right now are 50-55c between the cores. This is using coretemp; speedfan reports temps ~15C lower which I consider inaccurate.


Max thermal spec for a B3 is 62C TCase which should be about ~77C from the TJunction sensors, so 80C is not really "out of the park" in terms of temps, especially in the artificial scenario of loading all 4 cores using prime.

I'm pretty sure my heatsink is installed just fine, and it is still an improvement over the temps I was getting with the stock heatsink, which I'm 100% sure was installed correctly. I used AS5 and followed the instructions to the T.

I look forward to lapping my CPU soon to see if it makes any difference.

Is this true? I haven't heard anyone else say this yet. So does this mean you can run a G0 Q6600 up to ~86*, and a G0 x3210 up to ~100*?

I had assumed you wanted to keep your temps (as read by TAT, CoreTemp) below the thermal specification.

I understand that the TCase and the TJunction are 2 different areas of the chip. I guess I just assumed that the Thermal Specification was related to where the sensors are actually located.

And you're saying TCase, and TJunction run with about a ~15* delta?

Can anyone back-up or deny GotNoRice's claim? I'm very curious.

Yeah. The x3210 is probably trying to account for rackmount enclosures, etc where temperatures could get hotter. Technically a processor should be able to sustain any temperature below the actual TJMax of the processor, at which point throttling should occur. As long as everything is stable there shouldn’t be *too* much to worry about.


TJunction sensors are located on each core. Quad chips don’t actually even have a TCase sensor anymore, but intel still outlines the procedure for measuring TCase temperature; it involves cutting a groove into the IHS and placing an external temperature sensor in the approx center of the IHS. See: http://www.overclockers.com/articles1312/8052.jpg

The difference between TCase sensor measurments and TJunction measurements are typically about 15C under load; it’s simply hotter on the cores than on the IHS.

Read this thread, it will make it clear what the differences are between TCase and the TJunction etc

Just to clarify...

If I have a B3 x32x0, or Q6600 I can safely run it up to ~77* as seen in CoreTemp.

If I have a G0 Q6600 I can safely run it up to ~86* as seen in CoreTemp.

If I have a G0 x32x0 I can safely run it up to ~100* as seen in CoreTemp.

I had thought everyone on here was trying to keep their CoreTemp readings at or below the Thermal Spec (as listed on Intel's website). This is very good news indeed! Can I get some more confirmations please! I don't want to fry anything!

If this is true I'm going to have to tell my buddy to crank up his B3 x3210 a notch b/c I was trying to keep it under 62* w/ p95 running. I was getting 65-66* at 2.4GHz (1.2v) w/ p95 running, but was still under 70* at 2.66Ghz. He's still running the stock cooler BTW.

Bing would be the best guy to clarify IMO

@jason: dude, you're temps are too hot according to Intel's own specs. Look up your processor at the processor finder to see what the max temps should be.

Those aren't my temps man...you need to read further up the thread.

Those are "what if's" based upon what GotNoRice posted.

Bing, can you answer this question about TCase and TJunction temps?

From that very link, if you look up your processor and then click on "Thermal Specification" so that the details box comes up, it says:

"Thermal Specification: The thermal specification shown is the maximum case temperature at the maximum Thermal Design Power (TDP) value for that processor. It is measured at the geometric center on the topside of the processor integrated heat spreader."

Notice how it does NOT say measured using the Digital sensors on the core? That would be the TJunction temp, which is hotter than the temp at the IHS, typically by 15C under load.

Note: There is a separate issue that is confusing due to the fact that is also involves a 15C difference. Older versions of Coretemp report TJunction temperatures based on an 85C max. B3 and I would assume G0 processors also have a TJunction max of 100C. Since TJunction temps are calculated by subtracting the sensor value from the TJunction max, if the program thinks your max is 85 when it is really 100 it will report temperatures 15C too low. You can see how on the surface it would appear to correlate to TCase temperatures since you’re talking about a 15C difference in both cases, but there is no connection. Version .95 of coretemp should report your TJunction max correctly.

I definitely believe you GNR. It makes total sense to me. It just seems from my reading that everyone else was trying to get their CoreTemp .95 reported readings to be less than or equal to Intels thermal specification when running p95 or Orthos. I may have interpreted posts wrong, but this is the general feeling I had based on all my readings.

If someone says they are running their G0 Q6600 at 80* everyone would say that is too hot. You are saying that is not the case, and they should be fine as long as their voltage isn't too high. Because too much voltage at any temperature can fry a chip.

I am aware of the problem w/ CoreTemp vs. speedfan temp reporting, and understand it is a separate issue. You have shed some light on a few things I didn't completely understand yet, though...thanks!

Would be great if we can get some real confirmation on what max temp the q6600 can take, if it is 80 C then I can pobably get to 4 G's, that would be awesome

Edit...also what is max voltage for this CPU?

Can anybody else confirm?

I guess some of you recognize me for one of the OcFer here that do not trust cpu absolute temp reading using software.

Now, this is about the "other" method to boost your OC morale for squezzing more performance from your current OC if you got scary on the temp you've seen when your OC-ed CPU on loaded, "but" you still don't believe your CPU temp reading accuracy when using software.

Warning ! I never recommend this to everyone, read and undertand the risks & consequences.

If... again a big "IF" you have the gut, my suggestion is find the CPU throttling temp with these following method :

* Put your mobo on bench or table, not in casing, and use Intel stock HSF, also I suggest add few fans to blow on the mobo mosfet and chokes and other parts as well.
* Yank out the HSF fan and hold it with one of your hand right above the heatsink.
* Now, run your favourite temp monitoring program, throttle watching program like RightMark CPU Clock or ThrottleWatch and Prime95 to load the CPU.
* Once the Prime95 launched, watch the temp rising and be prepare another hand which is not holding the fan at the power switch for "emergency shutdown" just in case.
* While watching the program toasting the CPU, watch closely the temp reading and the throttling windows.
* Start swing or waive the fan "slowly" farther from the heatsink to slowly heat up the CPU until it starts throttling.
* Once you saw the throttling started, mark down the CPU temp, this will be your last hottest temp that the "TRUE" Intel Throttling Mechanism (TM) starts to kick in.
* Once that throttling temp is acquired, at this point it is up to you whether you want to turn it off thru the power switch or cooling the cpu by bringing the fan closer to the heatsink and watch the process of CPU cooling and where the throttling stops at.


This will last only for 3-5 seconds when the throttling starts, been there with 3 pre core Intel cpus and they're all still alive today & kicking !

Just "an example" if you captured the throttling temp for your CPU is at 93 C and your current maximum OC on loaded CPU is at 68 C,

Now, the last important question that you should ask your self as an "OC-er" :

"Do you have the gut to squeze more ? Maybe like until it reached 78C or even 80C ?"


Final Warning !
Do this at your own risk, I will not be responsible for any problems or damaged that might happened to your rig.

 

[jason4207]

Bing,

What would you estimate I can run my G0 x3210 up to when I get it? Using CoreTemp to read temps.

Thermal spec is 85* for G0 x3210
Thermal spec is 71* fro G0 Q6600
Thermal spec is 62* for B3 XXXX

I was thinking 80* would be fine. This thread makes me think 90* might be OK. What do you think?

I may end up trying the throttle method...I might wait a while, though. It's a little scary!

I did throttle my current set-up (see sig...Wife's) once accidentally. I have the Zalman MFC-1, and have the tornado hooked up to one of the 12v/5v/off switches on it. I was gaming and had the switch on 12v. After I was done I turned off the PC, and flipped the switch, so it wouldn't be so loud when I started it back up. The next time I booted up I was just surfing the web, and everything was running super slow. I looked down in the corner at MBM and saw over 70* (it normally gets up to 55* when gaming w/ the fan on 12v)! Then I noticed I hadn't switched the fan to 5v, but instead got it stuck in the middle position which is "off". I flipped it back on, and the PC came back to life. No damage, and it's still running strong!

 

[Maverick0984]

I read every word of all of that. I have one comment. Your friend's B3 x3210 only was able to handle 2.4ghz at 65C under load? That isn't too impressive for the x32x0's . I know you said it was on stock and yes it's B3, but still. Hopefully he just has really bad airflow, or got unlucky with his chip.

As for this whole discussion, when the CPU starts throttling, it is already way too hot. Same concept, if when you notice you are getting dehydrated, it is already too late. Or if when you check engine light comes on in your car, it is, in most cases, too late.

You should stay well below the throttling temp. IMHO, and this is pure speculation on my part. That "well below" is going to end up at most, like 5C above what we already consider too hot. At that point, I'm not willing to squeeze that extra Mhz. People are going to start feeding too much voltage into some of these G0's cause they handle the heat a little better and are so far below this throttling temp

Okay, I guess that was more than 1 comment.

 

[jason4207]

I read every word of all of that. I have one comment. Your friend's B3 x3210 only was able to handle 2.4ghz at 65C under load? That isn't too impressive for the x32x0's . I know you said it was on stock and yes it's B3, but still. Hopefully he just has really bad airflow, or got unlucky with his chip.

As for this whole discussion, when the CPU starts throttling, it is already way too hot. Same concept, if when you notice you are getting dehydrated, it is already too late. Or if when you check engine light comes on in your car, it is, in most cases, too late.

You should stay well below the throttling temp. IMHO, and this is pure speculation on my part. That "well below" is going to end up at most, like 5C above what we already consider too hot. At that point, I'm not willing to squeeze that extra Mhz. People are going to start feeding too much voltage into some of these G0's cause they handle the heat a little better and are so far below this throttling temp

Okay, I guess that was more than 1 comment.

My buddy does have bad airflow (old HP case I think)...just has the side panel off for now. He just ordered an Antec 900, though. He reseated his x3210 today...claimed it dropped idle temps by 5*C. He had it up to 2.8GHz (7x400) at 1.225v, but it wasn't stable. He upped the voltage a little, but it was too hot for him when running 3DMark06. He's at 2.66GHz (8x333) now @ 1.2v. He chooses not to run P95 for now (I did it, though, on his machine ). Says it doesn't matter for what he's trying to do w/ it for now. He uses 3DMark06 to test, and as long as Oblivion doesn't crash he's happy. He's got his RMA in hand from NewEgg, and will probably return it early next week. He may get lucky and get a G0! I told him to write a little note in the box...can't hurt, right?

The B3's are known to run hot. Heck, some people on here are running hot w/ B3 Q6600's at stock settings w/ aftermarket coolers! I still think the G0 x3210's have a lot of potential.

Good point you make about too much voltage. No one has fried a C2D or C2Q yet, but I'd hate to be the first. It does make sense that maybe temps aren't as much of a concern as many think they are. Keeping the voltage in check is more of a concern. How much voltage do people run 24/7 and feel comfortable with? That's what I'd like to know. Does anybody run 1.5v or 1.6v 24/7? If so, how long have you been doing this?

It is true that transistors operate more efficiently when colder, so keeping low temps is still a concern, but for a different reason than frying your CPU. When a fuse blows is it b/c of the heat, or the voltage/amps?

Based on the thermal spec I have planned on seeing what my G0 x3210 can do up to around 80*. This recent info (GotNoRice) has me thinking I will have a greater safety margin than I anticipated. Does anybody have any reservations about me going this high? What are the reasons?

 

[Maverick0984]

My buddy does have bad airflow (old HP case I think)...just has the side panel off for now. He just ordered an Antec 900, though. He reseated his x3210 today...claimed it dropped idle temps by 5*C. He had it up to 2.8GHz (7x400) at 1.225v, but it wasn't stable. He upped the voltage a little, but it was too hot for him when running 3DMark06. He's at 2.66GHz (8x333) now @ 1.2v. He chooses not to run P95 for now (I did it, though, on his machine ). Says it doesn't matter for what he's trying to do w/ it for now. He uses 3DMark06 to test, and as long as Oblivion doesn't crash he's happy. He's got his RMA in hand from NewEgg, and will probably return it early next week. He may get lucky and get a G0! I told him to write a little note in the box...can't hurt, right?

The B3's are known to run hot. Heck, some people on here are running hot w/ B3 Q6600's at stock settings w/ aftermarket coolers! I still think the G0 x3210's have a lot of potential.

Good point you make about too much voltage. No one has fried a C2D or C2Q yet, but I'd hate to be the first. It does make sense that maybe temps aren't as much of a concern as many think they are. Keeping the voltage in check is more of a concern. How much voltage do people run 24/7 and feel comfortable with? That's what I'd like to know. Does anybody run 1.5v or 1.6v 24/7? If so, how long have you been doing this?

It is true that transistors operate more efficiently when colder, so keeping low temps is still a concern, but for a different reason than frying your CPU. When a fuse blows is it b/c of the heat, or the voltage/amps?

Based on the thermal spec I have planned on seeing what my G0 x3210 can do up to around 80*. This recent info (GotNoRice) has me thinking I will have a greater safety margin than I anticipated. Does anybody have any reservations about me going this high? What are the reasons?

on these forums....

 

[GotNoRice]

My buddy does have bad airflow (old HP case I think)...just has the side panel off for now. He just ordered an Antec 900, though. He reseated his x3210 today...claimed it dropped idle temps by 5*C. He had it up to 2.8GHz (7x400) at 1.225v, but it wasn't stable. He upped the voltage a little, but it was too hot for him when running 3DMark06. He's at 2.66GHz (8x333) now @ 1.2v. He chooses not to run P95 for now (I did it, though, on his machine ). Says it doesn't matter for what he's trying to do w/ it for now. He uses 3DMark06 to test, and as long as Oblivion doesn't crash he's happy. He's got his RMA in hand from NewEgg, and will probably return it early next week. He may get lucky and get a G0! I told him to write a little note in the box...can't hurt, right?

The B3's are known to run hot. Heck, some people on here are running hot w/ B3 Q6600's at stock settings w/ aftermarket coolers! I still think the G0 x3210's have a lot of potential.

Good point you make about too much voltage. No one has fried a C2D or C2Q yet, but I'd hate to be the first. It does make sense that maybe temps aren't as much of a concern as many think they are. Keeping the voltage in check is more of a concern. How much voltage do people run 24/7 and feel comfortable with? That's what I'd like to know. Does anybody run 1.5v or 1.6v 24/7? If so, how long have you been doing this?

It is true that transistors operate more efficiently when colder, so keeping low temps is still a concern, but for a different reason than frying your CPU. When a fuse blows is it b/c of the heat, or the voltage/amps?

Based on the thermal spec I have planned on seeing what my G0 x3210 can do up to around 80*. This recent info (GotNoRice) has me thinking I will have a greater safety margin than I anticipated. Does anybody have any reservations about me going this high? What are the reasons?

When we refer to "load" temps we're still talking about using Prime95 to load all 4 cores right?

I'm just saying because even though my rig will exceed 80C on the cores during prime and remain stable, I have yet to find a single real-world scenario that heats my processor up to anywhere near that. For example, when I run WoW, which primarily only uses one core, I'll have one core at 67-72 and the other 3 will be <62. If I was putting out 80C during real-world usage scenarios then yeah even I'd have to agree that it's too hot, but since that isn't the case, I'm not really worried. Of course it's nice to know that even in a "worst case" scenario my rig will still be stable even at the extreme temps. Even duringSupreme Commander which makes wonderful use of multiple cores, I rarely seethe cores get above ~74C.