Need Help with Buying Memory for Old System (DDR3 / P55)

[Johan45]

^^^ Yeah what he said your airflow is all bassackward. Turn the top and rear fans to exhaust and make sure you have fans in the front 2 would be ideal to pull cool air in. Right now you're just pushing all the air toward the middle with a hot video card dumping more hot air into the case and it appears there's nothing really taking it out of the case..

 

[Arjay]

Tj Max is a 100c then it will throttle, check with RealTemp.

I don't think this is correct at all. Just a few posts up someone mentioned the Intel spec for the thermal threshold on that chip is 72.7c - what I'm seeing seems to confirm that. The system will physically shut off the instant the processor gets to around 75/76 and certainly 77 with multiplier reduction disabled. Once you hit 77 you're pretty much doomed (as mentioned above)

Tcase from Intel is 72.7c

I'm not sure about the effectiveness of your air flow. I would have to look into it again but I recall that testing has shown that it is better to exhaust hot air out than to pull cool air in. The way I see it is that you are forcing warmer air into the center of the case and trying to force it out. The difference is positive air flow vs negative air flow. Negative air flow is generally better at pulling hot air out while bringing in more cool air surrounding the case.

I'd be willing to put money on it that if your pushed air out from the top and the back that your temps would drop. In other words, reverse the two arrows at the top of your picture.

I did test this a few years back but can't remember what my findings were. My guess is that reverse airflow worked better as all the fans in the case were set that way. But, it was a long time ago. I will re-try it again at some point as with perhaps running a second fan (Push/pull).

 

[JLK03F150]

I see 4 things that will help your case & CPU cooling. As others have said, rear & top fans should exhaust. Front, side and bottom mounted fans should blow in.

1. Replace your nonworking front fan. It should blow into the case.
2a. See if it's possible to mount your radiator to the top of the case, mount fan below to push through the rad up & out.
2b. Keep the pull configuration on the rad, but exhaust out the top. If there's room, consider a push pull on the rad.
3. Rear fan turned around to exhaust.
4. Mount a 60-80mm fan over the blue heatsinks, blowing onto the board (mine is mounted with zip-ties ). Cooling the power section will help your CPU temps.

Here's my AMD system as an example. Rad fans pushing out the top, rear fan exhausting, two front fans supplying air & the unique to my old Rocketfish case 'fan in an aluminum box' supplying air to the video card. Also there's an extra fan blowing directly on the CPU's power section.

 

[wingman99]

Tcase from Intel is 72.7c

Tcase is the temp that you should keep below inside the PC case.

 

[Lochekey]

Tcase does not have to do with the temperature inside your pc case. Tcase refers to the temperature seen at the IHS of a cpu when a thermocouple is inserted into the IHS for temperature readings. This is in comparison of Tjunction(Tj) which is taken from a DTS that is embedded into the cpu core.

Here are 2 blurbs directly from Intel on the matter.

What is Tcase vs. Tjunction?
These terms are related to processor temperature for desktop and mobile systems based on Intel® Processors. To allow optimal system operation and long-term reliability, the processor must not exceed the maximum case temperature specifications as defined by the applicable thermal profile.

Tcase is the temperature measurement using a thermocouple embedded in the center of the heat spreader. This initial measurement is done at the factory. Post-manufacturing, Tcase is calibrated by the BIOS, through a reading delivered by a diode between and below the cores.

Tjunction is synonymous with core temperatures, and calculated based on the output from the Digital Thermal Sensor (DTS) using the formula Tjunction = (Tjunction Max – DTS output). Tjunction Max (Tj Max) is also referred to as TCC Activation Temperature in certain processor datasheets.

What does Tcase Max and Tjunction Max mean?
Tcase Max is the maximum temperature that the Tcase sensor should reach. Both Tcase and the thermal specification information can be found on the Intel web site.

Tjunction Max is the maximum temperature the cores can reach before thermal throttling is activated. Thermal throttling happens when the processor exceeds the maximum temperature. The processor shuts itself off in order to prevent permanent damage. Tjunction Max (Tj Max) is also referred to as TCC Activation Temperature in certain processor datasheets.

You can find the full article on these points here.

So as I said earlier the Tcase for the processor is 72.7C so you will see throttling if you reach or exceed this value. Due to calibration of the DTS in the individual cpu along with the software/bios reading it you can see up to a 5 degree variation above this value before a system shutdown/throttling occurs and this is within the normal realm of operation for this design model.

 

[wingman99]

Tcase does not have to do with the temperature inside your pc case. Tcase refers to the temperature seen at the IHS of a cpu when a thermocouple is inserted into the IHS for temperature readings. This is in comparison of Tjunction(Tj) which is taken from a DTS that is embedded into the cpu core.

Here are 2 blurbs directly from Intel on the matter.






You can find the full article on these points here.

So as I said earlier the Tcase for the processor is 72.7C so you will see throttling if you reach or exceed this value. Due to calibration of the DTS in the individual cpu along with the software/bios reading it you can see up to a 5 degree variation above this value before a system shutdown/throttling occurs and this is within the normal realm of operation for this design model.

You posted that

Tjunction Max is the maximum temperature the cores can reach before thermal throttling is activated.

It is not the Tcase. Tjunction max for the CPU is 100c, then it will throttle.

 

[Arjay]

You posted that It is not the Tcase. Tjunction max for the CPU is 100c, then it will throttle.

That's not what I'm seeing. I just changed over to Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility and it clearly shows the CPU will physically shut the computer down right around 80c. If I can keep the temps at 75c during a 15 minute run it will not try to auto-throttle until the last 3/4 of the run. It will try to cut the mulitplier due to the long run at 75c but can't because I shut off that feature in the BIOS.

I see this behavior with it all the time. You would think that if it starts out at 75c, and stays there, and does not try to thermal throttle the chip it should be good. But if you run it for 15 minutes at 75 it will try to thermal throttle it when you are 3/4 through the run. It's very annoying and I don't know why.

This lends a lot of credence to the 72.7 figure quoted earlier. There is no way it will ever hit 90 or 95c period. If it hits +/-80 is will hard kill the system regardless of whether CPU thermal protection is turned on or off in the BIOS as a last ditch effort to protect the CPU.

So I'm not sure where people keep coming up with 100c as the magic number to avoid. It's not. 80c is the outter limits period. 75c alone is OK for 10 minutes but not for 15. At 15 minutes it wants to thermal throttle it (sends out the command). You can see this in the Intel program. But because I turned it off in the mainboard it does nothing.

The question is, why is 75c OK for 10 minutes but not 15?

 

[Arjay]

Tcase is the temp that you should keep below inside the PC case.

Tcase is the maxium temperature of the metal case on the processor that you attach your cooler to. It's the shiny square metal box on the processor. They call that the case.

 

[wingman99]

The question is, why is 75c OK for 10 minutes but not 15?

I think it is the VRM overheating, thermal trotting happens a soon as it reaches the set temperature.

You can see below my E8400 is throttling down to 2 Ghz



You can see below my Q9550 is throttling down to 2 Ghz

 

[Arjay]

It could be (VRM overheating) or at least playing a part. But I did stick a 120mm fan right above the VRMS and it runs at full speed when the temps are over 60c on the proc. It made them considerably cooler but I don't know if it's rules it all out yet.

I do think I need a better cooler if I want to go all the way but for now, it's probably going to stay this way. I need to get some memory in to replace what I have and also add in some SSD's before I go back to seeing what this chip can really do. It seems to have tons of headroom provided it can be cooled. I've had it boot into Windows with no issues at 4.5 Ghz with voltage to spare all the way around. But it will not run stable at those speeds with the current limitations on cooling etc.

I do know, for fact, that Intel software is reporting that it's sending out the command to throttle the multiplier due to heat. This can be seen on any 15 minute test run.