New CPU and F@H Increased PPD

[JLK03F150]

I've never read about this happening so I thought I'd put my result out there. My RX 6800 XT has been folding for a while with the AMD R7 3800XT. No CPU folding, just GPU. I swapped CPUs to the 5800X3D a few days ago, updated the BIOS, updated motherboard drivers, & have seen a significant improvement in my PPD. Still only GPU folding and didn't update the GPU driver. Has anyone else seen a big jump in production with just a CPU swap. It's not like the 3800XT is a slow CPU, but I guess the 5800X3D removed a folding bottleneck of some sort.

Edit: Forgot to mention when looking at the numbers below, subtract 500k PPD for a GTX 970 I have contributing.

 

[Holdolin]

Indeed, given the same WU and the same card (my 4090s) the PPD varies between the 4090s sitting on old platforms vs those sitting on new platforms. Always great to get a jump in PPD, nice work

 

[EarthDog]

I wonder why that is, considering when GPU folding it doesn't really use more than a core (right?). If it was a bottleneck, it would be better to spread across more cores since those are more readily available for f@H machines than high-end CPUs.

 

[Holdolin]

Things like CPU speed, cache sizes. and other internal architectures play parts in it. Some more commonly just refer to it as single-thread performance. Also, the PCIE version support by CPU. By this I mean take the Balliskner as an example. Her motherboard supports PCIEv3, however her CPU only supports PCIEv2. Should I upgrade her CPU to one that supports the v3, my output would go up as well.

 

[EarthDog]

It all makes sense..., especially the PCIe bandwidth as the lion's share (and then some) is on the GPU. I just never thought the GPU would be waiting on the CPU for GPU folding.

 

[WhitehawkEQ]

And is why my 4090 is not doing as well as it would with PCIe 3.0 or 4.0, as it is now it's running on a MB with PCIe 2.0.

 

[EarthDog]

Right, the PCIe bandwidth thing I knew about...it's a GPU-driven thing. I just never knew the CPU played that big of a role in maximizing potential.

Let me ask this, do the requirements of the CPU go down with lower PPD GPUs? What, exactly, is the CPU doing for the GPU? But yeah, wouldn't it be better if it was coded to multiple threads since those are more readily available than high-end CPUs?

 

[JLK03F150]

Both my CPUs and the GPU are PCIe gen4.0. The 3800XT is even faster (4.8Ghz vs 4.5Ghz) on single core boost. I'm guessing the 3D cache in the 5800X3D is causing the increase, but it is just very unexpected.

 

[EarthDog]

~50% increase is insane... and like you said, you're not coming from a slow/potato of a CPU....

EDIT: I'd be curious to see the increase to 5800X (non 3D)...see what the CPU influence is just by itself and if the 3D cache chips are better suited for the job (which then I wonder about higher cache HEDT/Server chips...).

 

[Holdolin]

Right, the PCIe bandwidth thing I knew about...it's a GPU-driven thing. I just never knew the CPU played that big of a role in maximizing potential.

Let me ask this, do the requirements of the CPU go down with lower PPD GPUs? What, exactly, is the CPU doing for the GPU? But yeah, wouldn't it be better if it was coded to multiple threads since those are more readily available than high-end CPUs?

Yes actually. Before I retired my 2080Ti's, they were in an old 2600k-based system and pushing out all the 5-6Mil PPD they were capable of. Is also why I asked (and please forgive, I can't remember who or what thread) about having 2 4070Ti's on one board. As stated, it's about bandwidth and cache and prolly other things under the hood (i sure don't know it all) that all contribute. One possible way to think of it is: the CPU is basically "setting up" or pre-processing the data in a way the GPU and just hammer it, so the faster the CPU can do that, the higher the PPD.

 

[JLK03F150]

~50% increase is insane... and like you said, you're not coming from a slow/potato of a CPU....

EDIT: I'd be curious to see the increase to 5800X (non 3D)...see what the CPU influence is just by itself and if the 3D cache chips are better suited for the job (which then I wonder about higher cache HEDT/Server chips...).

Yes, I'd be curious to see the difference between a 3800X & 5800X too. Along with the CPU update I also had to update the BIOS. So the AMD AGESA version changed from V2 1.0.0.2 to V2 1.2.0.7 as well, something else that could have an effect on the system.

Holdolin, did the lane reduction with the 4070Ti's cause a loss in PPD. Did they go x16 & x4 or x8 & x8? Some many boards behave differently with that.

 

[WhitehawkEQ]

This is from a few years back but it shows that the PCIe 3.0 comes from the CPU, so if you have a CPU that only supports PCIe 2.0, then upgrading it will help a lot.

 

[Holdolin]

This is from a few years back but it shows that the PCIe 3.0 comes from the CPU, so if you have a CPU that only supports PCIe 2.0, then upgrading it will help a lot.

Oh I'm going to upgrade the mobo/CPU both. Time to retire my dinosaurs hehe

 

[EarthDog]

This is from a few years back but it shows that the PCIe 3.0 comes from the CPU,

Any PCIe lanes you're going to fold on should come from the CPU; otherwise, you're looking at PCIe 4.0 x4 or PCIe 3.0 x4 in modern boards, less on others. That said, unless you're rocking a board that has enough lanes (think HEDT or server CPUs) that typically leaves you with two 4.0 x8 slots...

 

[Farwalker2u]

JLK03F150 post seems to indicate that AMD's 5800X3D ($356.99) CPU might have a significant advantage of non-3D AMD CPUs. Something to consider when planning on building a Folding computer for spare parts I have.

On a slightly different topic, after watching

I tried Folding with the CPU paused and noticed about 17% increase in predicted PPD [18213 (21702, 1, 11)] (from about 17 million to 20 million) on my 4090 (CPU is 12700K).

Also, found that the 570 chipset provides 16 PCIe 4.0 lanes.

from Tomshardware.com

EDIT (11:00P.M.):
Now the 4090 is folding 16977 (4, 1527, 355) and the prediction has been around 22 - 22.5 million.

Pause that CPU for more PPD!

 

[EarthDog]

I really didn't know anyone still used the cpu t9 fold these days. Points are points, but, so inefficient comparatively.

Absolutely...the x570 has more lanes than consumer intel. How th board splits that up is key (just like other boards).

 

[JLK03F150]

JLK03F150 post seems to indicate that AMD's 5800X3D ($356.99) CPU might have a significant advantage of non-3D AMD CPUs. Something to consider when planning on building a Folding computer for spare parts I have.

On a slightly different topic, after watching

I tried Folding with the CPU paused and noticed about 17% increase in predicted PPD [18213 (21702, 1, 11)] (from about 17 million to 20 million) on my 4090 (CPU is 12700K).

Also, found that the 570 chipset provides 16 PCIe 4.0 lanes.
View attachment 360873
from Tomshardware.com

EDIT (11:00P.M.):
Now the 4090 is folding 16977 (4, 1527, 355) and the prediction has been around 22 - 22.5 million.

Pause that CPU for more PPD!

If you can get to a Micro Center, they have the 5800X3D for $299 in-store only.