New device may revolutionize computer memory

[Evilsizer]

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-device-revolutionize-memory.html

 

[Kowalski3500]

Awesome. It makes me realize I was describing Solid State Drives incorrectly to my friends. I was saying they are like RAM, or flash memory (volatile and non-volatile) and not realizing that flash memory does not equal RAM Yay for learning.

 

[Automata]

Interesting, but there is a lot of information that is missing. Basically, from what I gathered, is that they are combining solid state storage and RAM into one unit. What they don't explain (or what isn't clear) is how either performs. I'm assuming the volatile RAM will perform at or near current systems, but how fast can it dump it into non-volatile memory? If it was instant or near instant (less than a few seconds), I could see some uses. You could greatly lower the UPS needed to keep a computer "safe" if it didn't need to actually be running. Use a very small battery (much like RAID cards have) that can detect power loss and keep the system on long enough to move it to non-volatile memory. No need to power the whole system at that point.

Honestly, it just sounds like using hibernation, except it doesn't use the hard drive. Neat concept, but we need more data.

EDIT: Another idea that was not mentioned. Would it be possible to instead use the non-volatile RAM for other uses, such as data that does not change (libraries, etc)? This would free up system memory and leave data that needs to change frequently to the components that are made for that purpose.

 

[Dooms101]

Interesting, but there is a lot of information that is missing. Basically, from what I gathered, is that they are combining solid state storage and RAM into one unit. What they don't explain (or what isn't clear) is how either performs. I'm assuming the volatile RAM will perform at or near current systems, but how fast can it dump it into non-volatile memory? If it was instant or near instant (less than a few seconds), I could see some uses. You could greatly lower the UPS needed to keep a computer "safe" if it didn't need to actually be running. Use a very small battery (much like RAID cards have) that can detect power loss and keep the system on long enough to move it to non-volatile memory. No need to power the whole system at that point.

Honestly, it just sounds like using hibernation, except it doesn't use the hard drive. Neat concept, but we need more data.

EDIT: Another idea that was not mentioned. Would it be possible to instead use the non-volatile RAM for other uses, such as data that does not change (libraries, etc)? This would free up system memory and leave data that needs to change frequently to the components that are made for that purpose.

I think their design is a little different than just combing two devices. What they did is combine volatile memory circuitry and nonvolatile circuitry into one unit. They didn't say anything about them being synchronous or anything, but I believe the RAM portion can be used for normal operation, so the units can be used to store one bit of information independently of the nonvolatile portion at normal RAM speeds. Then if the computer needs to go into a 'sleep' state, the nonvolatile circuitry can near instantly store the bit stored in the RAM portion and power can be cut off. The reverse could also work allowing near instant boot; the nonvolatile storage portion could set the RAM portion to its saved state. If they were synchronous though, the bit state would be saved in both portions and there would be no need for a transaction, although I'd imagine this making it perform comparatively slow as RAM.

You're idea in your edit is an interesting one indeed, but these memory units do not store two different bits at once, but the same information in volatile state and nonvolatile state at once. I do agree that this article is too vague to really understand whats going on.

 

[Automata]

I understand what you are explaining now and that makes a lot more sense. I was thinking of it in terms of "a SSD here combined with RAM here". Instead, it is more like "one cell of RAM here with one cell of SSD next to it". Basically, it is like millions of SSD circuits in parallel. Since they would all be accessed at the same time, it would be instant, or near instant.

 

[Dooms101]

I understand what you are explaining now and that makes a lot more sense. I was thinking of it in terms of "a SSD here combined with RAM here". Instead, it is more like "one cell of RAM here with one cell of SSD next to it". Basically, it is like millions of SSD circuits in parallel. Since they would all be accessed at the same time, it would be instant, or near instant.

Yeah, the questions are: how expensive are these to produce, and whats type of performance can be expected?

 

[keredg]

another angle, what happens if a virus gets in there, normal memmory flushes it on reboot once power is lost

 

[Automata]

It would be deleted, I don't understand the question. It is the same scenario as on a hard drive, which is a similar persistent storage device.

 

[psionic98]

I think the question about dumping the volitile to non-volitile would be what keredg is asking.. i think.

If the virus is in volitile mem, it would be shipped into non-volitile and thus saved from deletion on power loss. It would be a neat addition to have built in AV run through volitile before moving to non-volitile to avoid something like that.. but that'd be drive updates out the rear.

 

[Automata]

It would be the same as putting an infected computer into hibernation, though. It isn't any different except for the speed at which it stores the information.

 

[Dooms101]

It would be the same as putting an infected computer into hibernation, though. It isn't any different except for the speed at which it stores the information.

+1 a reboot doesn't save a computer from malicious software anyways, it wouldn't be a vulnerability. Besides, most AV software prevents attacks from ever running or being saved locally; so if malicious software gets past AV software you're already screwed regardless of how it's stored.