New Rig- Pre Built?

[Viper69]

I was talking to a buddy of mine who builds rigs for a living. For his personal setup, he said "I'm tired of building rigs, for my personal, I might go with a prebuilt one, I've seen some good deals"

I'm at a point with some of my software where Win7 is not supported if I want to update. I might update my OS w/my current setup, or maybe go the route my buddy is going to do.

I'm busy working a lot, and may not have time to build a new system, trouble shoot IF needed- my current rig in sig file was easy to put together in that respect. I'm just not sure if I have the time to build one etc.

Are the pre-built computers out there good? I haven't looked at a pre-built system in eons. Back when I was building, the stores had pre-made systems, but they were always with older parts and a home-made one would be faster all the time.- hands down. Unless you were buying from Falcon Northwest.

Is that still the case? I don't need bleeding speed.

I'm doing dig photography, and sure gaming would be nice too.

I don't need a new monitor- I like mine, nor do I need speakers.

I'd say my price point is $1,000- but I suspect that price is too low due to crypto hogging up all the chips, plus vid cards are so expensive and so many different models now! but I'll certainly go higher if necessary. I did for my rig in sig file when I built. You can't futureproof a system, but my rig in the sig file has held me all this time with no issues to be honest.

Any suggestions, ideas, input etc is appreciated.

 

[Viper69]

I'm building a system now and I decided that DDR5 was too much money and too little performance increase. I also feel that most of the reviews of DDR5 vs DDR4 show that there isn't any real benefit. You may feel otherwise and I know that someone will disagree but if cost is an issue (it is) and you still want great speed overall, it is helpful to look at the system as a whole.

I feel that Gen4 PCIe is plenty fast enough for both NVMe and GPU. Since we don't SLI anymore, any of the basic chips will do. Intel or AMD. I just bought a 2x16GB OLOy DDR4 kit for less than $80. I bought a brand new X570S chipset Gigabyte AORUS Elite MB for $200. I'm not saying that you need to get these parts but trying to highlight where I saved money yet kept performance.

A Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 Air cooler for my CPU was also only $55-$60. Reviews lead me to believe that it will do a great job.

The Kingston 1 TB Fury has great specs for about $100 even. I think that it's performance is on par with the Samsung 980 for about $50 less.

You're picking safe products but paying a premium for doing so. I'm not saying that you are wrong on any item you selected, I just hope to open your options to product ideas that may save you money.

Perhaps simalar to your parts, I bought an AMD 5700x, 2x16 DDR4 3600MHz, 1TB NVMe Gen 4 and the HSF for about $640 all in. Tax, shipping, etc.

Maybe you'll look at those numbers and find that you are right on target and maybe those numbers will show you a new direction to turn. I don't know. This may not be helpful at all.

Now all that said: I have to wait for each part to arrive. I have to remember from whom I purchased each item. I have to keep track of the warranty per item. I have to asymble it all. There are downsides to it for sure.

Thanks for the reply! You know I was not so sure about DDR5 vs DDR4. I saw in one review about the tech the difference in bandwidth. However such differences do not always translate into real world settings, theoretical is always better it seems. I"ll take a deeper look on RAM, thanks!

Ah the Kingston Fury is good? This I didn't know. In my current rig I dropped in a 1 TB SSD from Samsung to replace my Cherryville, and I've been super pleased. So I thought I'd stick with it. However, if the Kingston is just as good, and a bit cheaper as you wrote, it's work specing out IMO. thanks. I will take a look at a comparison of the 2 etc if there is one.

My last 2 systems I built myself, and did all the all the warranty stuff etc you wrote about. That wasn't hard for me.

Maybe I missed it- what did you do for a GPU? I find thy massive selection of vid cards daunting now. I certainly don't need a 1,000$ vid card jeez.

I was reading on AnandTech or Tom's (same corp owner) that AMD Ryzen 5 series was the sweet spot for price/performance, but later in the same article they rated an Intel (I forget which model) as the CPU to get for gaming. Hence the other config I posted.

 

[don256us]

I bought an AMD Ryzen 7 5700x CPU. Cheaper than a new 7000 series, uses DDR4 and uses 65watts which is less than most. 8 cores 16 threads. More power than I need. Because it's last gen, prices are better until stock runs out. Keep in mind that I'm downgrading from a Threadripper 1900x and wanted to keep competitive with that. That's my hangup and don't recomend basing your choice off that. If you find that Ryzen5 does what you want, even better to save some cash.

For GPU, I paid full price plus. Hard to get around that right now. Hell, even retail prices went up so it's no longer a scalper thing. Nvidia is raking us through the coals. I'd guess that an AMD card would work for you but because AMD doesn't F@H like Nvidia, I never priced nor spec'd AMD GPUs.

 

[Viper69]

I bought an AMD Ryzen 75700x CPU. Cheaper than a new 7000 series, uses DDR4 and uses 65watts which is less than most. 8 cores 16 threads. More power than I need. Because it's last gen, prices are better until stock runs out. Keep in mind that I'm downgrading from a Threadripper 1900x and wanted to keep competitive with that. That's my hangup and don't recomend basing your choice off that. If you find that Ryzen5 does what you want, even better to save some cash.

For GPU, I paid full price plus. Hard to get around that right now. Hell, even retail prices went up so it's no longer a scalper thing. Nvidia is raking us through the coals. I'd guess that an AMD card would work for you but because AMD doesn't F@H like Nvidia, I never priced nor spec'd AMD GPUs.

A Threadripper- nice!!

Are you gaming? IF so, what type of games?

Still not sure on CPU after my last review I mentioned. I had 2 AMDs, and then this Sandbridge- all 3 worked for my needs. You lost me on that abbreviation about AMD vs Nvidia??

 

[EarthDog]

I bought an AMD Ryzen 75700x CPU.

A Threadripper- nice!!

There isn't a 75700X CPU...it's not Threadripper. 5700X, don?

 

[don256us]

Ryzen 7 5700x is the new CPU.
My current CPU is a TR 1900x.

The two are comparable with the Ryzen having slightly better scores.

 

[ZetaRevan]

Great info! I'm personally choosing get components cause I'm itching to do a build since I haven't done one in a LONG time. Also, I'm bringing my teenagers into the mix so they learn the basics of putting together a rig.

 

[Zerileous]

What is your monitor's refresh rate and what FPS do you find acceptable?

 

[don256us]

A Threadripper- nice!!

Are you gaming? IF so, what type of games?

Still not sure on CPU after my last review I mentioned. I had 2 AMDs, and then this Sandbridge- all 3 worked for my needs. You lost me on that abbreviation about AMD vs Nvidia??

I don't "game" per se. I play some fairly static games like Total War: Shogun 2 and Civ VI. May as well be solitaire.

I do distributed computing to find cures for things like cancer. Folding at home it's called. Abbreviated as FAH or F@H. Often reffered to as Folding. Basically we are helping to do the math around how protiens fold. If they fold correctly, all is good. If they fold incorrectly, cancer. GPUs do most of the heavy lifting. They are far better at doing this work than CPUs. Nvidia has worked closely with F@H and are far better at the number crunching than AMD. For that reason, I stick with Nvidia for graphics and stay away from AMD GPUs.

With that said, I have nothing against AMD in CPU or GPU. I just prefer Nvidia for Folding.

 

[Viper69]

What is your monitor's refresh rate and what FPS do you find acceptable?

Good Q- with this rig I was playing Far Cry, and Battlefield 2, but that was eon's ago. Currently the refresh rate is 60 Hz, seems to max out at 75 Hz based on below link. I checked on Dell's site and didn't find a thing. The monitor has survived many moves, not a single dead pixel ever. It's a great monitor. I know tech has improved since.

I couldn't tell you acceptable FPS as I never checked. Back when I gamed heavily my system was able to handle whatever game I used on it without issue. Of course now, that's probably not true with modern games, which ones-unknown

I didn't have to tweak settings in my BIOS etc to have a good gaming experience with this system when it was new.

27" Dell UltraSharp U2711 - Specifications

Specifications of Dell UltraSharp U2711. Display: 27 in, H-IPS, CCFL, 2560 x 1440 pixels, Viewing angles (H/V): 178 ° / 178 °, Brightness: 350 cd/m², Static contrast: 1000 : 1, Dynamic contrast: 8000000 : 1, Refresh rate: 56 Hz - 76 Hz, sRGB: 100 %, Adobe RGB: 96 %, NTSC: 102 %, Dimensions...

www.displayspecifications.com

Post magically merged: Dec 12, 2022

I don't "game" per se. I play some fairly static games like Total War: Shogun 2 and Civ VI. May as well be solitaire.

I do distributed computing to find cures for things like cancer. Folding at home it's called. Abbreviated as FAH or F@H. Often reffered to as Folding. Basically we are helping to do the math around how protiens fold. If they fold correctly, all is good. If they fold incorrectly, cancer. GPUs do most of the heavy lifting. They are far better at doing this work than CPUs. Nvidia has worked closely with F@H and are far better at the number crunching than AMD. For that reason, I stick with Nvidia for graphics and stay away from AMD GPUs.

With that said, I have nothing against AMD in CPU or GPU. I just prefer Nvidia for Folding.

I love TOTAL WAR games!!

Ah, structural biology- I know exactly what folding is having participated in it many years ago. I did not know F@H. All too familiar with the concept and why protein folding is important and computationally taxing.

 

[don256us]

Once you get your rig built, join us. We are still the #10 team in the world with only 45 active members.

 

[Zerileous]

The reason I'm asking is because the refresh rate of your monitor impacts the amount of benefit you will see with a better GPU. If the monitor is running at 60Hz, it won't be able to utilize any increase in FPS over 60 fps. In other words, you want a GPU that will keep your games above 60fps without necessarily spending money to have so much extra power that they are running at twice that. When looking at reviews, you can look at 1440p and 60fps as a target for gaming performance. What follows are some gross generalizations to help you narrow the field in your own research (since you expressed that there are a lot of options and you're having trouble keeping them straight). This is not specific advice, please research your specific desired use and read the benchmarks, instead of taking my word. I'm just taking things at a glance to provide the gist of the situation.

Probably okay with the 3060 for 1440p 60hz / 60fps gaming, but it will depend on the title, so if you have titles in mind it's best to review specific benchmarks. 3070 will be faster for longer, but at least for a little while you're going to have performance you can't use for a lot of titles.

Regarding the CPU, a 13600k or 7600x may be percentages faster, but if you look at a benchmark you may see that both run games that you're interested in at over 60fps in 1440p. I think any current or last gen 6 core CPU (11600k, 12600k, 13600k, 5600x, 7600x) will be fine for 1440p 60fps, but that again is a generalization and I strongly advise you to search out your own benchmarks.

Remember benchmarks are designed to highlight differences in products. In real application the difference doesn't matter if your monitor cannot display a refresh rate in the range where the differences are noted. For any component, GPU, CPU, memory, if the benchmark shows one product at 115 fps and another at 145 fps, it will make no difference with the monitor you're using. On the other hand, the difference between 50fps and 80fps will be substantial with your monitor.

You seem happy with the monitor so don't worry about getting something that can outperform it so soundly.

 

[Viper69]

The reason I'm asking is because the refresh rate of your monitor impacts the amount of benefit you will see with a better GPU. If the monitor is running at 60Hz, it won't be able to utilize any increase in FPS over 60 fps. In other words, you want a GPU that will keep your games above 60fps without necessarily spending money to have so much extra power that they are running at twice that. When looking at reviews, you can look at 1440p and 60fps as a target for gaming performance. What follows are some gross generalizations to help you narrow the field in your own research (since you expressed that there are a lot of options and you're having trouble keeping them straight). This is not specific advice, please research your specific desired use and read the benchmarks, instead of taking my word. I'm just taking things at a glance to provide the gist of the situation.

Probably okay with the 3060 for 1440p 60hz / 60fps gaming, but it will depend on the title, so if you have titles in mind it's best to review specific benchmarks. 3070 will be faster for longer, but at least for a little while you're going to have performance you can't use for a lot of titles.

Regarding the CPU, a 13600k or 7600x may be percentages faster, but if you look at a benchmark you may see that both run games that you're interested in at over 60fps in 1440p. I think any current or last gen 6 core CPU (11600k, 12600k, 13600k, 5600x, 7600x) will be fine for 1440p 60fps, but that again is a generalization and I strongly advise you to search out your own benchmarks.

Remember benchmarks are designed to highlight differences in products. In real application the difference doesn't matter if your monitor cannot display a refresh rate in the range where the differences are noted. For any component, GPU, CPU, memory, if the benchmark shows one product at 115 fps and another at 145 fps, it will make no difference with the monitor you're using. On the other hand, the difference between 50fps and 80fps will be substantial with your monitor.

You seem happy with the monitor so don't worry about getting something that can outperform it so soundly.

True for rate of monitor. Thanks for the performance target, that makes sense. I understand each game title is different, and each game uses different vid cards different. I went through that realization for the rig in my sig file. I don't play any one title a lot, or type of game a lot either. I like FPS, and I love RTS games, and during my gaming days, played them both equally. It's a balance in finding a card that is good enough for all types of games generally speaking.

All true also on benchmarks, the number of benchmark models there are now is more than when I built my sig rig. Also knew from that build that not enough "difference" is observed by the end-user. Some things do not matter due to the user, user's equipment etc.

Oh for sure 50fps vs 80 fps is significant on my monitor.

I love this monitor actually. They are a lot cheaper now then when I bought this one.

I'm looking for a new system that will take me for a few years as I said earlier. I was never a FPS obsessive person as long as the game looked "nice" and there was no lag on my screen. I never had such issues w/my current rig w/those "current" games.

I read reviews, and there were definitely faster systems than mine, with the graphics all maxed out. I never pursued that route. It's a hobby, and not an obsession for me at least.

There's less time in my life to dedicate to all that stuff now unfortunately. BUT, I will check out more reviews as you mentioned esp for vid cards.

I do tend to buy parts that will last a while, as evidenced with my Sandybridge setup Everything on this system I built has never failed me.

thanks for the reply!!


All of you guys rock, so helpful, thank you.

As I have more questions, I'm sure I'll post.

One thing I have not looked up yet, is whether it matters if an AMD CPU is mated with an AMD vid card or an nVIDIA....I suspect it might, but have not looked yet.

 

[EarthDog]

One thing I have not looked up yet, is whether it matters if an AMD CPU is mated with an AMD vid card or an nVIDIA....I suspect it might, but have not looked yet.

Nope. Don't need to match ecosystems. Intel is the faster gaming CPU, but not by much overall...wins some/loses some.

 

[don256us]

AMD or Intel will work fine with AMD, Nvidia or Intel GPUs. No worries in the slightest.


One thing that I did want to bring up is the different between AMD's 5000x and 5000g series CPUs. The "g" series means that they have a GPU built in. This is NOT a bad thing but it does limit the PCIe to Gen3. The "x" series has Gen4 PCIe which is much faster and will last you a few years.

Here is what I paid for items during Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Expect prices to be a few dollors higher right now.

NVMe	99.99​	Amazon	Kingston Fury
CPU	198.7​	Amazon	Ryzen 7 5700x
RAM	71.99​	Newegg	OLOy Owl
MB	169.99​	Newegg	Gigabyte X570S Aorus Elite
HSF	51.89​	Amazon	Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120
TPM	7.46​	eBay	LPC TPM 2.0

 

[EarthDog]

APUs are also a bit slower perfomance-wise I thought? They are PCIe 3.0 devices, PCIe 3.0 x16 is only a couple of % slower than PCIe 4.0 x16 even with a 4090. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

 

[don256us]

APUs are also a bit slower perfomance-wise I thought? They are PCIe 3.0 devices, PCIe 3.0 x16 is only a couple of % slower than PCIe 4.0 x16 even with a 4090. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Nice read. Thank you.

 

[Viper69]

APUs are also a bit slower perfomance-wise I thought? They are PCIe 3.0 devices, PCIe 3.0 x16 is only a couple of % slower than PCIe 4.0 x16 even with a 4090. I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Higher is better? Meaning higher on the list itself, the first card is the best, or the card at the bottom is the best because it has 100%, ie 100% faster than the top card?


Great info ED!! That site needs to label its graph better.

Post magically merged: Dec 13, 2022

AMD or Intel will work fine with AMD, Nvidia or Intel GPUs. No worries in the slightest.


One thing that I did want to bring up is the different between AMD's 5000x and 5000g series CPUs. The "g" series means that they have a GPU built in. This is NOT a bad thing but it does limit the PCIe to Gen3. The "x" series has Gen4 PCIe which is much faster and will last you a few years.

Here is what I paid for items during Black Friday and Cyber Monday. Expect prices to be a few dollors higher right now.

NVMe	99.99​	Amazon	Kingston Fury
CPU	198.7​	Amazon	Ryzen 7 5700x
RAM	71.99​	Newegg	OLOy Owl
MB	169.99​	Newegg	Gigabyte X570S Aorus Elite
HSF	51.89​	Amazon	Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120
TPM	7.46​	eBay	LPC TPM 2.0

I always believe in future proofing.

I’ll go with X series

Post magically merged: Dec 13, 2022

Nope. Don't need to match ecosystems. Intel is the faster gaming CPU, but not by much overall...wins some/loses some.

I thought as much. I remember the days when a fast card was all you needed

 

[EarthDog]

That site needs to label its graph better.

Naa...

100% is the best...pcie 4.0 x16. Pcie 3.0 x16 is 98% or 2% slower than the 4.0 x16. In other words, it's based on the review item or this case pcie 4.0 x16.

 

[Viper69]

Naa...

100% is the best...pcie 4.0 x16. Pcie 3.0 x16 is 98% or 2% slower than the 4.0 x16. In other words, it's based on the review item or this case pcie 4.0 x16.

Thanks for this!

 

[Viper69]

What about this - I haven't added in the 3 case fans yet, and may switch to Win 11 Pro.

I was not quite sure if the MSI board is a good one or average. I usually get an ASUS, but this time around they seem more pricey than usual...I'm not sure if this MSI is the right pick.


This is the link to the base build and I modified it a bit. I could determine if the radiator size should be the largest or not. I assume the larger the better as greater surface area should aid in faster heat dissipation.

Cost 2580$ A little higher than expected, but doable.

https://www.ibuypower.com/store/intel-gaming-pc-ddr5-configurator-3

Limited Time Offer:

• [FREE] HYTE Eclipse HG10 Wireless Headset (While supplies last! For Intel 13th Gen i7k and i9k Processors)

Case:
iBUYPOWER Slate 5 MR ARGB Tempered Glass Gaming Case

Case Fans:
Default Case Fan

Processor:
Intel® Core™ i7-13700K Processor (8X 3.40GHz + 8X 2.50GHz/30MB L3 Cache)

Processor Cooling:
iBUYPOWER 360mm Addressable RGB Liquid Cooling System - Black

Memory:
16GB [8 GB X2] DDR5-4800 Memory Module
Certified Major Brand Gaming Memory [Free Upgrade to 32GB DDR5-5600 GSKILL Trident Z5 RGB]

Video Card:
NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3080 - 10GB GDDR6X (VR-Ready)

Motherboard:
MSI Z790-P WiFi - WiFi, ARGB Header (3), USB 3.2 Ports (1 Type-C, 5 Type-A), M.2 Slot (4)

Power Supply:
850 Watt - CORSAIR RM850e - 80 PLUS Gold, Fully Modular
FREE Upgrade to 1000 Watt - CORSAIR RM1000e - 80 PLUS Gold, Fully Modular

Primary Storage:
1TB Samsung 980 PRO M.2 PCIe Gen 4 NVMe SSD -- Gen 4 Read: 6900MB/s; Write: 5000MB/s, Gen 3 Read: 3500MB/s; Write: 3400 MB/s

Secondary Storage:
1TB Samsung 870 QVO SSD -- Read: 560MB/s, Write: 530MB/s

Media Card Reader / Writer:
Kingston USB 3.0 High Speed Media Reader

Sound Card:
3D Premium Surround Sound Onboard

Network Card:
Onboard LAN Network (Gb or 10/100)


Operating System:
Windows 11 Home
(64-bit)