Question about Water-Chillers

[Alcsi69]

Hey guys!

Somebody from my other thread said, I should come here.

So basically I started a Cedarmill OC project (this is my first serious OC project) and I'd have a question.

So I've never used anything else than aircooling, but I'll definitely want to change that. So first I'll test all of my CPUs with air to see which are the better chips. After a time, I'll want to start with a water-chiller thingy.

So the main idea: I'll build a normal custom loop with an extra rad. I'd put this extra rad in a mini freezer, and pour water, antifreez and ice in it. Would this concept be able to reach below ambient temps?
I also tought about pre-cooling antifreeze or something like that to circualte it in the loop. So overall, what about this two concepts together? What could it achieve?
Also somebody in the other thread had a really cool idea: In winter, I could put the whole frezzer-rad thingy out at night, to have a much lower amibent temperature.

Of course I saw that direct-die phase change systems are more powerful than this, but I didn't really like that thing, it's too confusing for me, and also it's a littlebit too costly for me, since I'm a college student.

After a year or so I'll want to try dry ice as well, because it's relatively easy to get and the whole setup isn't too hard either.

 

[don256us]

What is your end goal?

I will say that the idea of using a minifridge has come up before and I looked into it a lot. It doesn't end up working out. The minifridge cannot handle the load because the load is constant. The fridge just isn't designed for that. I had even gone so far as to design a rad between the computer and fridge to bleed off some of the heat first but I ended up scrapping the whole idea.

Antifreeze is a bad idea. Distilled water is best. Automobile antifreeze is actually mixed to prevent galvanic corrosion or rust from when you mix aluminum, steel, copper, etc in a single loop. Cars can get away with the reduced heat transfer caused by this mix because the cooling capacity is so great compared to the heat generated.

 

[Alcsi69]

My main goal is to get 5000MHz+ with some of the chips with air cooling.
With the water chiller thingy, it would be 6000Mhz or so.
Actually I think you misunderstood me a little, because I didn't intend to circulate antifreeze, it would be in the freezer with water and I put ice in this mix. In this would be a radiator and there would be a radiator between the freezer thingy and the actual PC. Does it sound better this way or nah?
Or is there any way to use a watercooling loop with some extra to have a lot lower temp?
I also tought about pre-cooling the liquid which I want to circulate.

 

[MaddMutt]

My main goal is to get 5000MHz+ with some of the chips with air cooling.
With the water chiller thingy, it would be 6000Mhz or so.
Actually I think you misunderstood me a little, because I didn't intend to circulate antifreeze, it would be in the freezer with water and I put ice in this mix. In this would be a radiator and there would be a radiator between the freezer thingy and the actual PC. Does it sound better this way or nah?
Or is there any way to use a watercooling loop with some extra to have a lot lower temp?
I also tought about pre-cooling the liquid which I want to circulate.

^ what you are looking at doing has already been done If you are cooling only the CPU : a) - Take a cooler (Larger = Better) put Rad in it(preferably a 360 with no fans). b) - Pour Ice into cooler until it is full. c) - Your temps can and may drop to -10c to -20c. d) Expect a lot of condensation to form on tubing, block, clamps, Ect, Ect... e) Use antifreeze as coolant so that it does not freeze on you. f) This is good for about 1Hr - 1 1/2Hr of benching.

Here is a link to the - Teacher - of freezing water for benching - http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...r-Cooling-Version-3-0?highlight=silver+surfer
He started out with a cooler and ice (Version 1.0) He then he moved to a cooler with frozen water in milk jugs (Version 2.0)

 

[Alcsi69]

Yeah I'd do it with only the CPU or the GPU, only 1 at a time. (I'll have a 8800GTS with this build)
Yeah I was sure it was done, I didn't want to be a Messiah or something.
How do I prevent condensation? Some type of foam maybe?

 

[MaddMutt]

Yeah I'd do it with only the CPU or the GPU, only 1 at a time. (I'll have a 8800GTS with this build)
Yeah I was sure it was done, I didn't want to be a Messiah or something.
How do I prevent condensation? Some type of foam maybe?

^ You can not prevent Condensation. When you have something that goes below the temp of the air around it.
^ To help protect the Motherboard - Buy LET - AKA - Liquid Electrical Tape (Can be found at any Lowes/Home Depot)
^ To help protect the Tubing - Buy 1/2" - 1" around 6' - 8' long Foam Insulation (It's already pre-made to insulate copper/plastic pipes) (Can be found at any Lowes/Home Depot)
^ To help protect the Motherboard Socket - Buy Artists Eraser (clay) (Can be found at Hobby Stores)
- http://www.merriartist.com/Faber-Ca...MI9uWigaW_2wIVFnZeCh1dAAz0EAQYBSABEgLi7PD_BwE
^ Buy MANY rolls of paper towels, to wipe up the drops of water (LET will also help protect the video card if any drops of water land on it).
---a) - Prep the Motherboard. b) - Take pictures. c) - Upload pictures so that we can tell if you did it right. d) Read about going Sub-Ambient (Going below 0-F) as you also have to contend with keeping water OUT of your system.
- http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php/640477-From-ambient-to-SUB-ZERO/page1

 

[JLK03F150]

One (or several) of our benching team members recommend windshield washer fluid over automotive antifreeze for low temp applications. It has a lower viscosity and will circulate better at sub-zero C temperatures.
I plan on using it the next time I dust off my chiller. I used auto antifreeze with CPU temps down to -10F (-23C).

 

[Mr.Scott]

Yup. I use window juice. No problem at -20c.

 

[Lochekey]

+1 on the washer fluid. Check the label on it and look for a methanol formula over a glycol based formula. I run some purple stuff that is good to -34c and if I need to go colder I just dope it up with some extra methanol.

 

[Johan45]

The whole mini freezer will work but it has a limited optimal cooling time. Currently, I have a rad and large reservoir (kitty litter container) in a deep freezer which on large(hot) cps is good for about an hour before I start to lose performance. I have used car antifreeze and it didn't hurt anything in the loop and worked well except that it's quite thich and was hard on the pump, now I use window juice which flows much faster.
If I were to start again from scratch with a dedicated freezer just for my overclocking, I would skip the rad and reservoir and just fill the freezer with as many liters of fluid I wanted. Drop in the pump and return lines and off to town. This type of cooling improves, time-wise by the volume of liquid. You can have 20 liters of fluid chilled to -20° and run much longer than I can currently and when it's shut down the freezer has a chance to chill it agian over night.

 

[Alcsi69]

If I were to start again from scratch with a dedicated freezer just for my overclocking, I would skip the rad and reservoir and just fill the freezer with as many liters of fluid I wanted. Drop in the pump and return lines and off to town. This type of cooling improves, time-wise by the volume of liquid. You can have 20 liters of fluid chilled to -20° and run much longer than I can currently and when it's shut down the freezer has a chance to chill it agian over night.

So are you saying I shouldn't put a rad in the water-antifreeze-ice mix which is in the freezer, instead I just put the tubes in it?

 

[Johan45]

If it were me doing it all over again that's what I would do just fill the freezer half full of fluid, the rad is just wasted in the freezer it doesn't do any good and just takes up space. I have a submersible fish pond pump I use, 750 GPH so it can move liquid a long way up and a good distance. The big thing is condensation on your tubing and if the pump is in the case that could be a problem this is my set-up.

 

[Alcsi69]

Ah allright, I understand.
Actually I saw this concept without the rad, but I tought it could increase the performance. I was wrong then. I'm not a mechanical engineer unfortunately, if I were, I'd know a lot about thermodynamics.