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RAM Prices Are ILLEGALLY High? - Massive Lawsuit
- Thread starter Kenrou
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Alaric
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Yup, it's called capitalism. Somebody (China?) will jump in to fill the gap and so on. The idea that everyone is entitled to everything seems far more pervasive than common sense should permit.
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Nothing will come from it except filling attorney's pockets just like most class action lawsuits...sadly. I doubt it is collusion but I definitely think it is lack of competition. Samsung is basically controlling the DRAM market at this point and has for some time.
Alaric
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Making the best product will do that. The problem there is the influence of our tiny niche being outsized. "Sammy 'B' dies! Must have Sammy 'B' dies or your RAM sucks!". Which is bullflop, if you're not looking for super tight timings tied to very high speeds. How many people even here OC the snot out of their RAM? A handful of folks supposedly "in the know" are partly to blame for the problem.
Its less about sucks than it was for compatibility for amd ryzen...
...also, overclockers and those looking for 'b die' arent driving markets. Its the uninitiated seekng these people and thinking its needed. The lemming effect.
...also, overclockers and those looking for 'b die' arent driving markets. Its the uninitiated seekng these people and thinking its needed. The lemming effect.
Alaric
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That's what I meant by outsized influence. The few who "need" the almighty Bs are even a tiny minority at OCF (First gen Ryzen owners excepted). The 2xxx Ryzens are on their way to fixing that issue as well. But we do love to answer the question "What's the best RAM...?" automatically with the Holy Grail. It's prevalent throughout the field, too, so I'm not blaming 5 guys on OCF for the RAM prices. LOL
99% of people with DDR4 platforms can run 2400 MHz RAM at 17-17-17 and not be able tell it from 3600 MHz at 14-14-14. It's like putting forged pistons in a stock '78 Celica. Sounds cool when you talk to non car guys, but totally pointless in reality.
Alaric
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Most here start answering questions with "Are you going to OC?", but (and I'm guilty of this) the follow up to "No" is often "But, if you decide to in the future..." It is a sickness we try to make an epidemic. We're the Typhoid Marys of tech and blown budgets.
Alaric
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If you mean will the cost of beating this pointless suit be turned in to higher prices to cover the legal fees, then yeah, probably. LOL
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There are 3 DRAM manufacturers and even when were more then all were globally agreeing to memory prices. Some have higher, some have lower prices but actual market demand is creating this situation. Couple of years ago prices were not so much lower ... capacity of DRAM was lower. Now mobile devices are selling much better so also DRAM manufacturers focus more on that market and it was clear many months ago that production will be moved to that type of memory. Apple will still add +300% to what they paid for memory from Samsung but no one is touching them.
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It's not just the performance DDR4, it's all DDR4 that is priced high and Samsung has chips on most of it. There simply isn't enough competition trying for better these days. At least back in the day we had some manufacturers trying for tighter timings while others were trying for higher speeds. While the top of both brought a premium it was still competition that we all benefited from. Now it's just higher speeds and timings went out the door leaving one primary company. Until one of the other chip makers creates something better we are stuck with Samsung calling the shots.
Alaric
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DDR4 3000-3200 @14-14-14 ain't too shabby on timing. DDR4 3600 @ 15-15-15 is pretty tight, too. My DDR4 3000 is stable at 3733 MHz @15-16-16. This is my first DDR4 coming off DDR3 1600, so I'm pretty impressed. LOL
Actually it's not about DDR4 but whole DRAM market. DDR4 is only part of it. There is still high demand on DDR3 in couple of versions and all other DRAM memory types for various devices.
Most memory modules are not for gaming computers so it doesn't matter if it's Samsung, Hynix or Micron. Actually in servers and branded PC it's all mixed. Sometimes I see only Hynix or Micron in HP/Dell/Lenovo.
Kingston is on top of the list with memory sales for consumer grade computers. They are Hynix partner and most their memory kits are based on Hynix IC. Only some top series have Samsung IC.
Samsung B doesn't cost much more than Hynix/Micron ... it's just that binning adds high % to the final price. You can find Samsung B in 2133 modules without XMP profile running at CL17 and will cost as much as any other IC.
Soon you will see market of "gaming" memory modules flooded with Hynix at relaxed timings. I'm not sure of Micron. I know it can make 3600+ at relaxed timings but I doubt that DDR4 memory manufacturers will decide on high frequency Micron based modules anytime soon.
Even Samsung B doesn't guarantee good overclocking. There are new kits that can barely pass 3600. It's more about binning.
For most users it doesn't matter what is under heatsinks. Most users don't care ... and simply don't know the difference between used memory IC. As long as it works then all is fine. People who care about memory overclocking are really low % of the market. It still counts on the gaming PC market but not as much as we may think. More people are excited to see RGB LED than high frequency memory.
Every DDR generation was the same. Lower frequency and tight timings, higher frequency and more relaxed timings but also higher capacity. DDR4 is also going this way. If it's scalling good with voltage depends on many factors.
Competition between IC manufacturers is between their amount of sales. They don't care if IC overclocks better or worse. They care if it meets specification for which it was designed. Memory manufacturers ( like Kingston, GSkill, Corsair, ADATA, ... ) care about IC as it affects their product line. It's always like top speed modules are for marketing, and overclocking is just pure marketing recently. What sales the most are low frequency kits. Something like G.Skill Trident Z 4500 kit made 5000+... wow, it's great.. but I don't want to spend so much so I will buy Trident Z 2666 kit as it supposed to be awesome too.
I don't know what happened with Hynix AFR. There were many memory series at 3600-4000 which never appeared on the market and we could see AFR almost only in low frequency kits. Many kits were on QVL lists but were not released as final products.
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I would believe the overall demand argument if SSDs were going up as well. Historically SSDs prices have tracked with DDR prices but that isn't the case right now. SSD prices continue to go down while DDR remains high.
Are those even the same thing though? I don't believe what is in SSDs (NAND) is the same as what is on memory...?????
These are going into phones, which there is an extremely high demand for and one reason for the price hikes (demand high, supply low for reasons).
These are going into phones, which there is an extremely high demand for and one reason for the price hikes (demand high, supply low for reasons).
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