Rebuild advice requested

[bladerunneruk]

Hi folks
looks like a friendly informative forum so I just joined !

Please could someone advise on a few points regarding a rebuild of PC,

Current system is : Asus M2N-E, AMD athlon X2, 2x1Tb SATA mirrored drives, 2x500Gb SATA mirrored drives,1x UDMA system drive. OS is XP SP3, need to check power supply, think it was 450W, an nvidia gfx card, an mitsibishi diamondtron crt monitor

Intend to reuse all the drives, reuse the CRT (- it ain't broke yet !), resuse PSU and case, reuse gfx card (single card only). May wish to go twin screen at a later date when CRT dies. Reuse 1394 card. Reuse draftN wifi card, possibly change the main system drive and update to windows 7 but don't really want to shell out the cash.

Usage : Primarily photo editing (not adobe CS) and a small amount of video editing, general surfing & docs etc.

budget about 200GBP +Win7 if needed

apologies in advance if I take a week or so to reply, no access at work, busy at home too !

Query 1 : Can I retain the raid arrays if I buy a mobo with nvidia controller. ? The existing mobo had nvidia raid and was easy to set up raid arrays post XP install and I still have the build notes when I put the system together. Can I retain the raid arrays if I buy a mobo with nvidia controller e.g. M4N98TD http://www.saverstore.com/product/20083297/Asus-M4N98TD-EVO-Socket-AM3-ATX-Motherboard

Query 2 : If I update to windows 7 can I install over top of XP and retain exisitng installed programs ? If not what's best way to migrate them ?
(at back of my mind I might go for a new small (40Gb ish) ssd hdd and an OEM W7 but I don't really want to spend an extra 100 for W7 and 60 for ssd)

Query 3 : CPU : currently thinking about a phenom X4 955 or 965, may do a little overclocking but I'm not going to risk a system or hdd to eke the last Hz. Bulldozers don't seem to be worth the extra £££.

Query 4 : Mobo
I need 6 SATA HDD connectors + 1UDMA or >6 SATAs if using a new ssd hdd. Prefer ATX size. Prefer Asus as found the build straightforward last time (good documentation)

option 1 - M5A78L/USB3
http://www.saverstore.com/product/2...3xPCI1xPCIe-X162xPCIe-X1-IDE6xSATA2-RAID-2xUS

Option 2 : M5A97 PRO (poss when rev 2 arrives)
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/asus...r3-sata-iii-6gb-s-raid-sata-pcie-20-(x16)-atx
Has the faster SATAIII HDD connectors so should be more future proof

Query4a on mobo. Storage requirement is only going to increase and increase, starting to wonder about a NAS, is eSATA needed for a NAS ?

Query 4b on mobo - any alternatives recommended ?

Query 5 : memory - what's fastest the mobo&cpu can actually use in practice (I see some asus website comments on mobos about 1333 being max amd 100 series cpu can do ??) I don't eant to pay out for faster memory and then find it can't be used.

Thanks for reading and for any advice whichs comes my way

And sorry to disappoint all the gamers out there (I used to play avidly N64, xbox etc, but don't have the time now, hence the late post !)

 

[PolePosition]

To the Overclockers Forums!
I'll try to help answer your questions.

1. While you may have seen a benefit to RAID arrays in the past, most people don't go that route these days, and I'm uncertain if they would work on your new system without creating a new RAID array with the new motherboard.
2. If you install Win7 over XP, it will reformat the drive where all data will be lost. To do what you're seeking, I would suggest get an SSD and load Win 7 Pro or Ultimate version on it. Then you can download virtual machine from Microsoft and run XP through Virtual PC, which will load and run your XP applications from the other drives through your Windows 7 machine. I've done this and it works just fine.
3. I'd consider switching from AMD to an Intel CPU, since AMD is on their way out.
4. ASRock Extreme 4 with either a 3570 or 3770k CPU
5. Corsair or GSkills 1600 DDR3 is typically mainstream.

 

[Wathnix]

I will take on query4a, You are wondering about NAS and eSATA. A NAS is a stand-alone product that attaches to ethernet ports of your home router only and would appear on your computer as a networked hard drive, and you would have to administrate it by a web browser. To use eSATA, you would need a multi bay drive enclosure, which would have it's own case and power supply, and be connected to your computer via eSATA and would appear on your computer as any other hard drive would (or hard drives if you do not RAID them together)

I would recommend that you forget about a NAS or enclosure for now. You should just keep all your drives in your computer case and simply add a SATA card (and a larger case as needed) if you want to add more drives later. The SATA add in cards are cheap, easy to set up, they do RAID. All you need to do is ensure that your new mobo has at least one PCI-e 1x slot in it, preferably two slots.

As for Windows, I would recommend doing a fresh install of windows 7 then dual boot win XP. You should have 4GB RAM for best performance. Also a 60GB or greater SSD helps system boot times and overall performance tremendously. Keep in mind that with a SSD you will need to enable AHCI in BIOS before installing windows, for best performance (AHCI greatly improves SSD performance). If you try to transfer win 7 from mechanical hard drive to a SSD after installing win 7 then you will need to also do some registry edits to get win 7 to accept AHCI. (google search it)

 

[bladerunneruk]

I will take on query4a, You are wondering about NAS and eSATA. A NAS is a stand-alone product that attaches to ethernet ports of your home router only and would appear on your computer as a networked hard drive, and you would have to administrate it by a web browser. To use eSATA, you would need a multi bay drive enclosure, which would have it's own case and power supply, and be connected to your computer via eSATA and would appear on your computer as any other hard drive would (or hard drives if you do not RAID them together)

I would recommend that you forget about a NAS or enclosure for now. You should just keep all your drives in your computer case and simply add a SATA card (and a larger case as needed) if you want to add more drives later. The SATA add in cards are cheap, easy to set up, they do RAID. All you need to do is ensure that your new mobo has at least one PCI-e 1x slot in it, preferably two slots.

As for Windows, I would recommend doing a fresh install of windows 7 then dual boot win XP. You should have 4GB RAM for best performance. Also a 60GB or greater SSD helps system boot times and overall performance tremendously. Keep in mind that with a SSD you will need to enable AHCI in BIOS before installing windows, for best performance (AHCI greatly improves SSD performance). If you try to transfer win 7 from mechanical hard drive to a SSD after installing win 7 then you will need to also do some registry edits to get win 7 to accept AHCI. (google search it)

Hi Wathnix,
thanks for your comments and taking the time to help

Thanks for points on eSATA & NAS and for clarifying that for me, I'm just aiming to future proof my new build to a reasonable level and keep my growth options open. Have also been considering an external backup drive for my main PC which is where the photo editing is done. Sounds like eSATA would be useful for that if I've got my head straight (not always easy after several unplanned wake up calls by little one!).

I had not considered a plug in SATA card, worth a thought. Is there any downside to HDD r/w speed doing this compared to a SATA port directly on the mobo ?

thanks for your comments on windows and SSD etc, especially the point about mech to SSD ! Sound like fresh W7 on SSD is way fwd.

Currently I prefer to use raid arrays to help prevent data loss.
If I do a dual boot XP, W7 is it feasible to have both recognise the same RAID array (by instinct I'd be surprised if it could) ?

 

[bladerunneruk]

To the Overclockers Forums!
I'll try to help answer your questions.

1. While you may have seen a benefit to RAID arrays in the past, most people don't go that route these days, and I'm uncertain if they would work on your new system without creating a new RAID array with the new motherboard.
2. If you install Win7 over XP, it will reformat the drive where all data will be lost. To do what you're seeking, I would suggest get an SSD and load Win 7 Pro or Ultimate version on it. Then you can download virtual machine from Microsoft and run XP through Virtual PC, which will load and run your XP applications from the other drives through your Windows 7 machine. I've done this and it works just fine.
3. I'd consider switching from AMD to an Intel CPU, since AMD is on their way out.
4. ASRock Extreme 4 with either a 3570 or 3770k CPU
5. Corsair or GSkills 1600 DDR3 is typically mainstream.

Hi PolePosition, thanks for the welcome and your replies, much appreciated . Some thoughts spring to mind after reading yours :-
w.r.t. 1 - is lack of RAIDing due to much improved HDD reliability compared to 4years ago or is it just a trend ?
w.r.t. 1 - I'm anticipating I'd need to break the array and reinstate on new machine but thought I might get lucky with an nVidia equipped board. I'm just a bit concerned how well the raid would re-build on the two drives under W7.
w.r.t. 2 - Not surprised there's a problem installing W7 over XP, thanks for confirming my fears !!
w.r.t 2 - interesting, would this mean Virtual PC would be installed on the SSD and leave XP on the old drive, change to boot order in bios to favour the SSD ? Perhaps I could try this in my present PC with a new SSD (after some massive data backups !)
w.r.t. 3 yeah, AMD seems to be cheaper tho from what I've read so far, and 95% of my stuff will be single threaded I think !
w.r.t 5 thanks

 

[EarthDog]

Where you beem blade? Its been almost a month! I thought this was a post and run, LOL! (note you can edit you posts so you dont have to double post. ).

1. RAID, specifically R0 regardless of HDD or SSD, reliablity goes down. Remember, in R0 there is no redundancy so if one drive craps out, your array/data are lost.
1a. I wouldnt expect it to personally...
2. I havent had any issues running any XP based applications in W7 myself.
2a. Yes. I have never used this and it sounds incredibly convoluted in that why would one be doing this in the first place? I dont understand what W7 wont run...install those apps in W7.


I would get another PSU as well. 450W is fine, but you havent listed a brand and being so old may not be nearly as efficient as a modern PSU meeting, the silver/gold/platinum standards of today.

I have to giggle however at AMD being on their way out... that is horsehooey there, however the decision to go intel, especially for single threaded applications, is spot on.

 

[bladerunneruk]

Hi Earthdog,
almost a month ! Ha - that's quick !!! Just the way life is with a toddler and mrs expecting #2, spare time is just prioritised differently !!


Interesting you mention PSU, I dug out the info : Seasonic S12-430 ATX Power Supply, Model SS-430HB, review here :- http://www.silentpcreview.com/article226-page1.html

Had a look at http://www.thermaltake.outervision.com/Power
and the power level just squeaks in if I try the following build (had a brief look at the intel route but it seems more expensive) :

new items
-mobo M5A99X EVO (6sataIII, 2sataII ports, 1eSata)
-CPU Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition 3.40GHz
Have thought about a piledriver or bulldozer chip but don't see any black editions at similar speed and price to the phenom
-a cooling fan e.g. Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro rev 2
-4Gb stick of 1600MHz memory :- Corsair 4GB DDR3 1600M2xHz XMS3
-SAMSUNG 128GB 830 Series SSD
-Win7 Pro
reused items
- gfx card : Palit 7300GT so it's a nVidia GeForce 7300GT type card - it's not used for gaming !
- 2x 500Gb HDD
- 2x 1Tb HDD only 1 pair of HDDs are likely to be active at a time
- DVD R/W
- draftN wifi card
- tower case
Total GBP383 in vat

for which mobo + cpu is 169

Intel route (not familiar with the skts here guys !): cheapest similar I can find is
P8Z68-V-GEN3 (only 4xSATAIII, 2xSATAII, 1xeSATA tho)
+ i3 3240 3.4GHz 22nm (dual core only tho)

mobo + cpu is £214 - an extra £45 for what looks like less

Q) Any obvious bottlenecks here with the AMD spec machine, remembering I'm mostly photo editing and general surfing / admin stuff ?

 

[bladerunneruk]

Q) Alternative CPU is AMD FX-4 4100 Black Edition 4 Core 3.6Ghz Socket AM3+ . Is there any benefit vs the Phenom 965 in real use (rather than benchmarks!)
hmmm, maybe a FX4170 maybe but that's another £25 -- aaargh I'm getting sucked into the speed freak thing !!! ;-)

 

[bladerunneruk]

Decision made

Hi folks
thanks to everyone who took the time to help with some queries, much appreciated. Thought I would give an update with my decision.
After further checks I found that my main photo editing program was actually multithreaded and was using both of my two athlon cores whilst editing (had thought it only did this at batch develop time-doh) so after spending a while looking into the intel route with an i3-3220 I decided to stay with AMD mostly for £ for multi threaded speed value, Comparing FX6300 with i3-3220 and i5-3470 here : http://www.techspot.com/review/586-amd-fx-8350-fx-6300/page4.html and here http://www.techspot.com/review/586-amd-fx-8350-fx-6300/page5.html

Can't afford the uber shiny kit so I've ordered :-
a) Asus M5A99X EVO 990X
b) AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz Socket AM3+
c) Crucial 4GB DDR3 1600Mhz Ballistix Tactical Memory Module CL8 (8-8-8-24)
d) and for Win7 and programs and cache for my photo editing s/w a splurge on a OCZ 128GB Vertex 4 SATA III SSD, Up to 560MB/s READ, 430MB/s WRITE, 120K MAX IOPS, Indilinx Everest 2 Controller, 5 Year Warranty - may well try to partition it for the dedicated cache space. (nearly went for samsung 830 128Gb but the OCZ seemed significantly faster for not much more money, and there's a longer warranty)

total £320 + windows7 so a bit over original budget !!!

Hopefully it will be a smooth build !