Serious Question...

[nikhsub1]

Some things to consider not mentioned... the big one is headroom. If a phase unit is rated at 200w and you feed it 220w, you are borked, you will get horrid temps. With good water cooling the headroom is MUCH larger than with phase. Quad core cpu's when OC'd are pumping huge wattage... plus phase is a killer with electricity bills, then there is the noise and the condensation to deal with. Yeah if planned right you will get better temps, but you won't get that much more of an overclock for 24/7 running.

 

[blackbird007]

I am in the same boat as you and I am leaning toward water cooling just because of the lower electric bills and ease of use.

 

[Burdman27911]

Something to consider is going with water for a good while, and then moving to a chiller down the road with parts of the setup you have now. I'm not the most knowledgeable in this area, but you can get some good results even with an AC unit converted to chiller. With a chiller you can also cool multiple components, but I personally have a fear of improperly insulating a graphics card.

Just some food for thought, and maybe a good route if you already have all the WC parts.

 

[ares350]

- What is the average temp for a fully loaded Intel Core 2 Duo E6600/E6700 CPU?

Id shoot for idle between 5 and 10 degrees over ambient, load can be 10-20degrees higher depending on the system and the load. it comes down to the voltage your feeding the cpu, vs what cpu you have vs your cooling setup.
- Does refridgerating the coolant/distilled water/additives in any way help the cooling process?

no, unless you mean refridgerating the coolant continueously, in which case, it could. personally IMO there are 2 setups, above ambient, or freakin freezing. I never bothered with evaporative cooling(bong cooling) because it gets "just under" ambient, and all that hassle with dielectric grease and condensation isnt worth those 5 or 10 degrees.

- And, does the effect that phase change have on the CPU effect the surround components? (i.e. RAM, GPU, NB etc.) In other words, does the cold from the phase change on the CPU cover the surround areas? Does the internal temp of the case drop as well?

not likely an appreciable difference.

 

[JDawggS316]

Okay, well at this point I am still somewhat stuck, but am beginning to lean back towards water cooling simply because it isn't completely foreign to me anymore; plus it looks really cool too.

What it all boils down to (as it does I'm sure for many of us), is longetivity of the investments we put our money towards. Number one being the CPU.

Let's say phase change is out of the question:

Does water cooling provide extra cooling to the CPU and does it make a significant impact?

Or...

Is water cooling now-a-days almost necessary to keep the newer CPU's at temp's they should already be at?

Because, if water cooling is the norm/requirement to run a new CPU at what is considered "normal" temp's, phase change almost seems to be the way to go to insure the protection of it.

Hhhmmm...Too many d@mn questions

 

[pak]

Well heres a question for you. How high do you plan to OC? If you are trying to be the EPEEN KING, then go for the phase change. If you are just looking for a nice OC and some good temps, water is the way to go.

--pak

 

[JDawggS316]

First, my AIM is my user name here: JDawggS316 just in case someone wants to coach me a little outside of these busy forums.

Secondly, I am not a cazed overclocker as I just enjoy the privelidge of a moderately overclocked system at safe and normal levels (along with overclocking the VGA etc.).

But, as I was wondering, is water cooling now-a-days almost considered necessary for a "normal" operating CPU processor?

Because I don't want to be behind the times for once when it comes to technology lol

 

[pak]

No, you will do fine on air. Of course, better temps will result in better OC's. After your recent post, I think you need to go water cooling. Phase change will get you some great temps, but imo it is at a greater cost.

Go water cooling for now, and if you want, go further later.

--pak

 

[JDawggS316]

Okay, I think you're right.

Well, okay, here is what I've researched over the last few weeks and what I've come up with for my first loop.

I do need opinions here:

Case:
Mountain Mods U2-UFO Black Powder Original Top

Motherboard:
EVGA 680i SLi

CPU:
Intel Core 2 Duo E6600

VGA - Which one?
EVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTX (768MB) - $619.99-$649.99
EVGA e-GeForce 8800 GTX (640MB) - $439.99-$479.99
OCZ GeForce 8800GTX GPU (768MB) - $569.99
Do these need water cooling considering the massive cooling air fans on most of them?

Cooling System

CPU Block: D-tek Fuzion
GPU Block: Swiftech MCW60
MoBo NB Chipset: Swiftech MCX159-CU Chipset Heatsink
Fans: Yate Loons x 9 Blue LEDs
Radiator: Thermochill PA120.3
Shroud: Thermochill PA-Series Shroud Triple 120mm Gaskets
Pump: Swiftech MCP655
Reservoir: Still debating here...
Danger Den Dual 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir
Swiftech - MCRES-MICRO
Tanky - Dual 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir - UV Blue
Tanky - Dual (or floppy) 5 1/4" Bay Reservoir
Tubing: Masterkleer PVC Tubing ½”
Clamps: 15 Hose Clamps (Steel Worm-Drive)
Coolant: Distilled H20, Pentosin G11 Blue Additive and Swiftech HydrX

 

[pak]

You need a PSU.

--pak

 

[JDawggS316]

Oops, I forgot I have a Modular 630 watt PSU.

 

[pak]

What kind?

--pak

 

[JDawggS316]

The box says it's a:

"Raidmax Modular RX-630A 630watt PSU...

....Made in China."

 

[ares350]

not the best PSU, but it should do you just fine I think.

the whole modular thing seems debated. but whatever.

the cpu is a robust item. water cooling is not so much about lower temps(though it is) but more about its capacity to cool. it shines when you start upping the voltages to increase your stability. while the air cooled setups start to get too hot, the water is far less impacted. that means you can give it more volts, more overclocking.

the cpu wont be damaged at all. I can gaurentee that barring some sort of catastrophic failure, the cpu will last no less then 3times the amount of time you'll be interested in actually keeping it.

as with many things, you'll set up your loop, and there will be things you like and things you dont like. it comes down to personal preference. itd be nice to get it 100% perfect on your first run, but thats just not a realistic expectation. take it as a learning experience and hope its a good result even if not great.

 

[pak]

You need a better PSU.

I think you got things a little twisted. You don't NEED any aftermarket cooling for anything. You don't need to over clock. We do it cause we want to push our hardware to their limits. Or maybe its just ur choice of wording.

As far as the GPU, if you can afford it, I would definitely go for the gtx 768. Id pick evga just cuz of their step up program and great support.

--pak

 

[JDawggS316]

Thanks...I appreciate that...It kind of brings me back to reality a bit.

I did have some questions above however concerning the loop I have setup itself.

- Which of the listed VGA's is more recommendable?
- With the massive fans on these VGA's, does one need to water cool it?
- Which of the reservoirs I have listed is more recommendable? I like the idea of a bay res.

You guys have been awesome and this sure beats googling this and googling that every single minute of every hour.

 

[JDawggS316]

Okay, thanks Pak...I posted after you had and didn't see your reply.

I'll be looking into a newer, more powerful PSU indeed as I know for a fact that the one I have now does not support SLi (which is something to be done in the future).

I guess I'm just a little skeptical since I have never set up a water cooling loop before.

So I'm wanting to make sure I've got things down pat before I purchase something that may be crap.

 

[ares350]

99.9% of people run PCs on nothing but stock air cooling.

keep that in mind, what you see here is just people looking to push the envelope for the sake of pushing the envelope. water cooling is probably not even the best bang for the buck. youd probably get more performance stepping up your CPU to the next model and running a 50$ ultra-120 heatsink. and youd probably spend less doing it.

I cant speak for everyone, but I personally believe what I just said, and despite that, I watercool because I enjoy doing exactly what you are doing right now, researching, learning, tinkering, and building. untill your spending the money to be at the bleeding edge of the fastest hardware on the market(IE there is no where to upgrade to hardwarewise); watercooling or phase change cooling is nothing more than an enjoyable(and fustrating) hobby. it is never ever nescessary.

edit: I say never ever nescessary in regaurds to a fully functioning fully stable PC, even substantial voltage increases and overclocks are possible on air cooling, some even on stock retail cooling. it can become nescessary for extreme overclocking obviously.

 

[ares350]

as for the bay thing, if you have room to fit a dual bay res, go for it. I personally do not have the space to devote, so I go other ways.

I dont like single bay setups, I dont doubt that they can work, but they didnt for me. I think they are best in low flow loops; high flow I think sucking air is inevitable. tlines are cheap and simple, various other non bay rez options can be great, compact, and flexible. its just one of those things you'll have to live and learn.

 

[JDawggS316]

Are something like these common?

http://www.aquastealth.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=243

Do they kind of take the place of a radiator and sit outside your computer? Because to me, it seems like the half-way option between water cooling and phase change.

Would you say that's a correct assumption?