TbredXP 1700 & Abit NF7 rev2.0 boards = Not Very Friendly

[[OC]This]

This is why I'm telling you something is not right with your overclock configuration. You said you're running 128bit DC + CPU Interface on, well I still get much higher performance with the same setting as yours. I doubt it's the BIOS version making that much of difference, because I used to run BIOS 10 for long time and used to run 3dmark and know what score I get with it and is about the same as BIOS 13 or 14 if I remember correctly.

 

[[OC]This]

After some searching, it seems as you and many others pointed out, many reported that by using bios 10 can get higher FSB at stock with CPU Interface enable (for lower FSB chips).

And bios 10 is before 3200+ 200 FSB support, and so bios 10 is "good" and maybe needed for 1700+, 2100+ CPU to go high FSB.

If you have 2500+ to 3200+, there is no choice but to use higher bios.

right. exactly..

There may need some tricks to get back to bios 10 from higher version of bios 14, and up. The newer bios may have turned something on inside hardware (speculation).

yeah, like muzz's rev2.0 board for example, his default BIOS is 12 and was able to flash back to 10. Could be the older version of rev2.0 board like you've mentioned earlier.. This could be likely.. but i can't say for sure. Yes, I would love to see if there is a way to go to Bios 10. If you find anything, please let us know. i'll see what i can find..

What AWDFLASH and OPTION did you use that failed to flash bios 10. The newer AWDFLASH (8.23D) or the original one that comes with the bios 10 package.

I used the original one that comes with the BIOS 10 package.

There are an older and newer AWDFLASH. I am trying to figure out which version should be used for bios 10.

Good point.. I was wondering about that too. I could maybe have someone else to try different AWDFLASH version to get his/her rev2.0 default BIOS13 or 14 flash it to 10.

 

[james.miller]

i wouldnt call 3 seconds much higher. it IS puzzling though.

Just out of interest, what is your sandra memory bandwidth efficiancy at these settings?

 

[[OC]This]

i wouldnt call 3 seconds much higher. it IS puzzling though.

Just out of interest, what is your sandra memory bandwidth efficiancy at these settings?

you are at 230 FSB DC and mine at 225 FSB DC. Mine's at much lower FSB than yours and still beats you by over 3 seconds is what I wouldn't call "not much higher".


The pattern on these tests with same program/setting shows that mine is clearly faster than yours. It seems like your CPU interface isn't really enabled or something else is not set right in your BIOS.

Hold on, let me find some sandra mem benches i've done a while back..


Ok, i found the one for the 225mhz FSB DC + CPU Interface on

Most often I beat everybody in Sandra memory at high FSBs(clock for clock, FSB for FSB) too. That's because many others sacrifice the other settings and just jack up the FSB so high and do not get greatest result.

 

[james.miller]

deleted

 

[[OC]This]

I think you need to spend some time over at xtremesysems forum, as well as hexus forum and the hexus challenge. participate and compete. You'll find that 3 seconds is a quite difference in performance. It maybe small difference to our eyes, but you need to look at it different aspect of it. SuperPi@ 1million and piFast calculation@ 10 million time vs. system overclock configurations is pretty similar principle. superPi @ 1 million for example, you need approx. 100mhz of system clockspeed(with the FSB at constant) to barely gain 1 sec. Sometimes it might not even be 1 second. Like i've said, I think you will learn and realize more about this as you get into further overclocking and learn more about it. remember, xtremesystem forum and hexus.

 

[james.miller]

i know wht you are saying. please stop trying to tell me as if i am beneith you.

3 seconds is not that much. Not enough for me to care about - 3 seconds can be lost or gained depending on what day it is. It really doesnt bother me.

btw, i know more than enough about overclock.Remember, you are in NO WAY abouve me, or anybody. SO again, please stop it.

 

[james.miller]

yes. that is what im saying. if your bandwidth is higher at a given memory speed, of course you are going to get things done a little quicker.

 

[[OC]This]

i know wht you are saying. please stop trying to tell me as if i am beneith you.

3 seconds is not that much. Not enough for me to care about - 3 seconds can be lost or gained depending on what day it is. It really doesnt bother me.

btw, i know more than enough about overclock.Remember, you are in NO WAY abouve me, or anybody. SO again, please stop it.

you do have a bad attitude. That is not good for the forum though. Stop being so defensive and try to listen. All the info I and others are contributing here are for good. Some people don't understand the 3 second difference is nothing, is not good. Even 1 second difference is critical. 3 seconds?

If you get fluctuation of 3 seconds, then your system is completely unstable and would be considered the worst bench score fluctuation I have ever seen up-to-date.

and please, behave yourself. You are starting to flame again. Don't mess up this thread.

 

[[OC]This]

Just because I beat you in the benches and correcting you in something that do need to be addressed, and you get defended. I'm sorry to say, but something in your BIOS is not setup right. Sounds like CPU Interface is definitely DISABLED or your board is just totally flakey.

And this goes back to this: Read -->

This is why I'm telling you something is not right with your overclock configuration. You said you're running 128bit DC + CPU Interface on, well I still get much higher performance with the same setting as yours. I doubt it's the BIOS version making that much of difference, because I used to run BIOS 10 for long time and used to run 3dmark and know what score I get with it and is about the same as BIOS 13 or 14 if I remember correctly.

 

[james.miller]

you are unbelievable.

q) who said my scores are fluctuating?
a) nobody did. and, for the record, they ARE NOT. same results to within 1/2 a second EVERY TIME

3 seconds is critical to you, mabey, but not me. You see, i dont think water chilling my pc is worth my time. Not that theres anything wrong with it, i just dont want to personally. Thats called a difference of opionion - or, to put it simply, we have different goals.

Also, what ram do you have? corsair isnt it? well, i dont. You see, i might be down 3 seconds, but i saved myself over £40 by choosing twinmos rather than corsair. Ask yourself, which would i rather have? AGAIN, we have different goals. I prefer to save the money, not waste it.

Stop trying to tell me what is right and wrong. All i care about, is that i know i havnt spent nearly as much as you have and that is more important to me, than 3 seconds.

one last thing. If you would have read my posts on the cpu interface previously, you would know that i cant even boot with the interface off, let alone get into windows.

 

[[OC]This]

you are unbelievable.

q) who said my scores are fluctuating?
a) nobody did. and, for the record, they ARE NOT. same results to within 1/2 a second EVERY TIME

no, actually.. you are unbelievable.

and your answer a) is wrong. Here's why..

Look at your own benches. Your 230 FSB and 225 FSB, right here in this page. Your overclocked speed differerence is substantially high and you get about slight over a second difference calculation timing.

-http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.miller700/pics/pifast_230x8.jpg

-http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.miller700/pics/pifast_225x8_2.jpg



You have also said it yourself, benchmarks in this case, 3 seconds is considered fluctuation and not much different. Look at your own benches i just posted above. I see some serious fluctuations here by comparing the two benches you've posted.

3 seconds is critical to you, mabey, but not me.

Then there is no point of overclocking your FSB to 227~ 230mhz. based on what you have said, I see no point you even overclocking it to these. Why run it at 227mhz FSB?? There's not much of difference between 200 FSB and 227 FSB. (based on what you've claimed).

You see, i dont think water chilling my pc is worth my time.

hmm... that's your problem. I don't care what you're cooling with. You manage your stuff, none of my business.

Not that theres anything wrong with it, i just dont want to personally. Thats called a difference of opionion - or, to put it simply, we have different goals.

If you are talking benching, the numbers count, seriously. Apparently, you don't have what it takes to become a good system bencher. You don't appreciate these numbers, then there's no point of benching, for you I mean.

Also, what ram do you have? corsair isnt it? well, i dont. You see, i might be down 3 seconds, but i saved myself over £40 by choosing twinmos rather than corsair. Ask yourself, which would i rather have? AGAIN, we have different goals. I prefer to save the money, not waste it.

Now you are using an excuse. Because I have corsair, blah blah blah. I get the flame. If you are not into benching and don't consider 3 seconds is critical difference, why did you post your reply here? what's with the 227mhz FSB? See what I'm saying?

one last thing. If you would have read my posts on the cpu interface previously, you would know that i cant even boot with the interface off, let alone get into windows.

I had CPU interface enabled perfectly fine with the BIOS 10. I've tested with many rev2.0 boards. Maybe you got confused with the CPU Interface being disabled is enabled and being enabled is disabled? I don't know. Another thing, maybe you had APIC enabled? You need to check into all these if you are a serious bencher.

btw, i know more than enough about overclock.Remember, you are in NO WAY abouve me, or anybody. SO again, please stop it.

Once again, this goes back to where I've said "you do have bad attitude". Do you remember. I'm not he one said it, you did. You are the putting me down. Look at your reply. You said "you are in NO WAY abouve me, or anybody. This is a flame.

 

[[OC]This]

Since this James.miller guy ruined and distracted my thread, I had to re-post my reply to my friend hitechjb1.

Here goes..




quote:

Originally posted by hitechjb1


After some searching, it seems as you and many others pointed out, many reported that by using bios 10 can get higher FSB at stock with CPU Interface enable (for lower FSB chips).

And bios 10 is before 3200+ 200 FSB support, and so bios 10 is "good" and maybe needed for 1700+, 2100+ CPU to go high FSB.

If you have 2500+ to 3200+, there is no choice but to use higher bios.

right. exactly..

There may need some tricks to get back to bios 10 from higher version of bios 14, and up. The newer bios may have turned something on inside hardware (speculation).

yeah, like muzz's rev2.0 board for example, his default BIOS is 12 and was able to flash back to 10. Could be the older version of rev2.0 board like you've mentioned earlier.. This could be likely.. but i can't say for sure. Yes, I would love to see if there is a way to go to Bios 10. If you find anything, please let us know. i'll see what i can find..

What AWDFLASH and OPTION did you use that failed to flash bios 10. The newer AWDFLASH (8.23D) or the original one that comes with the bios 10 package.

I used the original one that comes with the BIOS 10 package.

There are an older and newer AWDFLASH. I am trying to figure out which version should be used for bios 10.

Good point.. I was wondering about that too. I could maybe have someone else to try different AWDFLASH version to get his/her rev2.0 default BIOS13 or 14 flash it to 10.

 

[Audioaficionado]

My NF7-S rev2.0 shipped with the v1.2 BIOS.

So is mine a newie or an oldie?

BTW flashing back to 1.2 from 1.4 isn't a problem. I haven't tried the v1.0.

 

[[OC]This]

And to point out again, this is some serious critical stuff.
Look at what I quoted,

i do not think so.


just ran the superPi@ 2M @ 225FSB @ 8-3-3-2.5

and still 7 seconds faster than yours at 227 FSB @ 8-3-3-2.5.

That is unbelievably large difference in the bench result.

Being 7 seconds difference is huge. That's approx. 3~ 4 seconds difference in superPi@ 1 Million calculation. You should go ahead and run the 1 million setting as well. Either your CPU Interface is totally disabled or/and you are running two sticks at 64bit DCDDR. You need to re-analyze your system hardware and the bios setting. That is if, you care to do it. It's your call.

 

[[OC]This]

My NF7-S rev2.0 shipped with the v1.2 BIOS.

So is mine a newie or an oldie?

BTW flashing back to 1.2 from 1.4 isn't a problem. I haven't tried the v1.0.

I can't say for sure, but muzz's rev2.0 board came with the BIOS12. He was able to simply flash it to BIOS10. You could PM muzz and ask him for more info. yes i think yours is oldie.

yeah, flashing up is easy, but with my particular board, going down to 10 was flakey. I almost killed it. managed to flash it back to 14.

 

[james.miller]

no, actually.. you are unbelievable.

and your answer a) is wrong. Here's why..

Look at your own benches. Your 230 FSB and 225 FSB, right here in this page. Your overclocked speed differerence is substantially high and you get about slight over a second difference calculation timing.

-http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.miller700/pics/pifast_230x8.jpg

-http://homepage.ntlworld.com/james.miller700/pics/pifast_225x8_2.jpg

yes, and do you want to know why? because i changed other settings also, thats why my benches at lower fsb's are better, and thats why it doesnt tally up.

You have also said it yourself, benchmarks in this case, 3 seconds is considered fluctuation and not much different. Look at your own benches i just posted above. I see some serious fluctuations here by comparing the two benches you've posted.

wrong again. different settings, remember.

there is no point of overclocking your FSB to 227~ 230mhz. based on what you have said, I see no point you even overclocking it to these. Why run it at 227mhz FSB?? There's not much of difference between 200 FSB and 227 FSB. (based on what you've claimed).

one more time.....different settings.

hmm... that's your problem. I don't care what you're cooling with. You manage your stuff, none of my business.

hello? that was no personal attack i made, im simply making a point - different goals. You seem quite happy spending more to gain those 3 seconds, i, on the other hand, don't. NO attack was made, just different goals once again.

If you are talking benching, the numbers count, seriously. Apparently, you don't have what it takes to become a good system bencher. You don't appreciate these numbers, then there's no point of benching, for you I mean.

There is no point in twisting words, here. I never said numbers don't matter. What i said was, im happy not being right on the edge and saving a few £££. To be perfectly honest, i have better things to spend my money on.

Now you are using an excuse. Because I have corsair, blah blah blah. I get the flame. If you are not into benching and don't consider 3 seconds is critical difference, why did you post your reply here? what's with the 227mhz FSB? See what I'm saying?

Again, no flame. That's YOUR problem for mis-interpreting my post.

I had CPU interface enabled perfectly fine with the BIOS 10. I've tested with many rev2.0 boards. Maybe you got confused with the CPU Interface being disabled is enabled and being enabled is disabled? I don't know. Another thing, maybe you had APIC enabled? You need to check into all these if you are a serious bencher. [/B]

Oh yes, silly me

APIC is disabled - and always has been, since i knew about the problems before i even brought the board. Is that serious enough?

OH, and, i seem to remember other people having exactly the same problem. hmmm.......
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222154&highlight=interface
metalStorm has seen it.
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221258&highlight=interface
Gautam experianced it first-hand.
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220064&highlight=interface
the_poche - couldnt boot at 220mhz with it.
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212316&highlight=interface
Audioaficionado cant use all the multi's without it. is that still the case, Audioaficionado?

all those are examples of problems with the cpu interface disabled. I'm sure you dont need more.

right. I've deleted all my posts with pics, so you can stop this" oh, but but but" right now. You have no excuse to get confused. I will re do all tests, at the optimised settings, and post the results all in one post. Then you'll see just how much fluctuation there ISN'T

 

[hitechjb1]

OK, thanks to hints from [OC]This and indirectly from muzz, ...

Flashing to bios 10 (or 1.0) without any problem from bios 17. Reset CMOS.

After flashing to bios 10 (or 1.0), it indeed improves a whole lot. With AWDFLASH (8.23D) come with the bios 10 package. Also use 3 additional option flags /cks /r /f with AWDFLASH, but I don't know whether these flags are needed at all.

It is now running 230 MHz prime95 stable (20 min for now), with CPU Interface enable, ...

at 236 MHz, still getting 95% memory efficiency, ...

still testing for higher FSB, ...

My NF7-S rev2.0 shipped with the v1.2 BIOS.

So is mine a newie or an oldie?

BTW flashing back to 1.2 from 1.4 isn't a problem. I haven't tried the v1.0.

Will try bios 11, 12, 14, ... to see where is the cut-off for newbie or oldie, ...

 

[[OC]This]

yes, and do you want to know why? because i changed other settings also, thats why my benches at lower fsb's are better, and

thats why it doesnt tally up.

wrong again. different settings, remember.

actually... you're wrong again.

You've said nothing about changing other settings when you posted both of those 225mhz/230mhz FSB benchmark. You're the one

said nothing about and now you spit it out. not smart...

one more time.....different settings.

again, read above.

hello? that was no personal attack i made, im simply making a point - different goals. You seem quite happy spending

more to gain those 3 seconds, i, on the other hand, don't. NO attack was made, just different goals once again.

yes, hello. I am here.

no, read my message that you quoted there. When did I say you attacked me there? I didn't, not in that message im sorry to

say. I just simply responded to your statement. Your cooling is not my business. Do I need to watch you how you change

your underwear? see what i'm saying?

There is no point in twisting words, here. I never said numbers don't matter.

of course you didn't, but i've said, you don't appreciate the numbers people get in their benchmarks. If the score is higher

than yours, you consider it "that is not much different", you make their bench just about the same as yours. That's like

putting down other benchers. Not honorable, im sorry to say.

 

[[OC]This]

PART II:

Again, no flame. That's YOUR problem for mis-interpreting my post.

actually... you mis-interpreted what I was getting at.

your entire posts in this thread is highly defensive. Anything i've said to you, you take it badly, as if holding a grudge.. and very, very defensive.

Who's said this?? read-->

Originally posted by james.miller
excuse me mister arrogant. read my sig:

2x256mb twinmos pc3200. DUAL CHANNEL.

damn it. if i wernt such a nice person, i'd call you an idiot you're attitude towards people really irritates me.

Originally posted by james.miller
btw, i know more than enough about overclock.Remember, you are in NO WAY abouve me, or anybody. SO again, please stop

it.

umm.. i think you are the one needs to "stop" it.

APIC is disabled - and always has been, since i knew about the problems before i even brought the board. Is that

serious enough?

OH, and, i seem to remember other people having exactly the same problem. hmmm.......
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=222154&highlight=interface
metalStorm has seen it.
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=221258&highlight=interface
Gautam experianced it first-hand.
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=220064&highlight=interface
the_poche - couldnt boot at 220mhz with it.
http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=212316&highlight=interface
Audioaficionado cant use all the multi's without it. is that still the case, Audioaficionado?

all those are examples of problems with the cpu interface disabled. I'm sure you dont need more. [/B]

08-07-2003
Sounds like Tyranos had too many sticks on the board and

expecting to FSB overclock high. Not a good idea.

Seems more mixing memory or/and too many sticks running

at the same time. someone mentioned try both CPU

interface enabled and disabled, right there.


08-04-2003
Edward2

His problem is more related with Vcore voltages. His

previous setup was Abit KX7-333 KT333 system, which

delivers healthy Vcore lines. The actual vcore usually

puts out higher than what you command in the BIOS.

For the Abit NF7 series boards, totally the opposite.

They genearally do not deliver good Vcore lines. They

undervolt and fluctate even down further. This is very,

very old talk. I had a discussion about this over a

year ago. It's been so long time.



07-30-2003
Lithan

CPU Interface being enabled doesn't necessarily make your system stable. CPU Interface On will put more stress on the CPUs in general. There are too many other variables you have to

take into considerations. A lot of times, I find that

people don't pay attention of other settings and most

often forgot their Vcore voltage isnt' enough to handle

the whatever speed they run at. They *think* they vcore

is plenty, but don't realize it is actually fluctuating

like mad and undervolts, which ultimately leads to

instability. Instabilities are presented in my forms.

Vcore is just one of the things. The key here is

consider other factors that could cause problems.

someone didnt' realize what they have changed in the

BIOS but only remembers CPU Interface was enabled, which

brought back stability. That is what I call poor

observation in attempt to troubeshooting the overclocked

hardware. This happened to many many people. I've been

seeing it all over the freakin forms.


07-07-2003
G|-|oST


You only been searching for CPU Interface?? and not

worrying about the other things???? You are getting

obsessed here. Not very good way to troubleshoot.

Look in that thread. What did Quest For Speed has said.

He says "it is for fast decode". He got that info from

me or other xtreme members at the other site. I'm one

of the persons that found this since the very first

release of Abit NF7 series revision 1.0 A2 chipset. I'm

the one(along with very few others over at abit forum)

who discovered the Vcore issue, Dual Channel issue, CPU

Interface issue, and more. This was over a year ago.

this is really, "old" stuff.

Oh yes, silly me

Think again.