Thinking of doing a new build

[Dravenspur]

As the title says, I'm looking to build a good gaming rig that will last me 3 to 4 years if possible. I have the case picked out, the Fractal Design Define R5, but I need help on a good motherboard, processor, whether I should go with mechanical and SSD hard drive or skip one or the other for storage. I'm looking to just go with air cooling, as I'm not going to overclock, so I don't need good water cooling ideas. I guess I'll need good memory too. 8 GB should be enough for now, don't you guys think? Or should I go for 16? Also, I've decided on the Sapphire R9 390 video card, so I don't need help there.

I've always had AMD processors just because they are cheaper and I feel the heatsink and fan is easier to install than on the Intel chips. The newest games, like The Witcher 3 and Assassin's Creed Syndicate, call for the FX 8350 CPU. I'm not sure that would last me beyond those games, though. Obviously, at this point, there are no specs for games like Mass Effect Andromeda as it doesn't come out for a year. However, do you guys think the 8350 would last me a while?

As far as the SSD, I'm not sure what they are for. Could someone give me some ideas as to why I would use both a mechanical and SSD drive? Obviously, the SSD's are smaller for now than the mechanical drives (250 to 512 GB vs multiple terabytes for mechanical drives). Actually, I saw there are terabyte SSD's but they are way to expensive for me with how good I want the rest of the build to be. Are people using their SSD for the OS and then a mechanical for all your programs and such? Is that why I would have both?

Thanks for any help that can be provided.

 

[ninjacore]

What's your budget and do you already own any of the parts you've mentioned or have you just already decided on them?

Are you completely set in ATX form factor?

8GB is fine on ram for gaming. I would definitely not build a gaming rig w an 8350. It's not any cheaper when you factor in the additional cooling it requires to make it perform at the level of a stock i5.

500GB is probably the way to go. $130ish for an 850 EVO. If you have hefty file storage needs, add an HDD. You definitely want an SSD for OS and games, though. Definitely.

 

[Dravenspur]

What's your budget and do you already own any of the parts you've mentioned or have you just already decided on them?

Are you completely set in ATX form factor?

8GB is fine on ram for gaming. I would definitely not build a gaming rig w an 8350. It's not any cheaper when you factor in the additional cooling it requires to make it perform at the level of a stock i5.

500GB is probably the way to go. $130ish for an 850 EVO. If you have hefty file storage needs, add an HDD. You definitely want an SSD for OS and games, though. Definitely.

Thanks for the quick reply. I've just decided on the R5 because I've asked in other forums here and people have said it's a good, quiet case that the Sapphire card would fit in. And I have a blu ray drive, so I need that 5.25 inch bay. I decided on the Sapphire card because it has double the VRAM of some NVDIA cards and it's relatively quiet. Plus NVIDIA has the .5 GB VRAM issue, where even when you buy a 4 GB card, it ends up actually only being 3.5 GB, because .5 GB is at a different speed. I'm not sure if the GTX 980 has that issue as well. I know the 970 does.

I wasn't really thinking about a budget. I just wanted some good parts and we'll see where the money goes. And no, I am not set on an ATX form factor. But I think that, say, E-ATX (I think that's the bigger one) is not widely used in builds. I could go with Micro ATX or Mini ITX but I want the components to fit on the board. If you think I can fit all the components on a Micro or Mini board, then that will be fine. I have a Wireless NIC I have to put in the case for internet as well. Actually, I could probably stand to upgrade my NIC as it's relatively old. Not sure if a NIC could be recommended, but that would be nice. It has to be wireless, though.

 

[ninjacore]

Alright,

1) The Fractal Define R5 is a great case. I love Fractal cases There are many others of equal quality and features in the ATX form factor at a similar price, however, so don't feel like the R5 is the absolute best option. If you don't particularly like the looks of it, let us know and we can recommend some others. Or take a look in the case department at newegg and see if anything stands out to you. Fractal also has the Arc line of cases which are great (focused more on airflow than silence, as is the Define series). Phanteks are great, most Corsair in that price range as well. You have a lot of options

2) I ask about the form factor because I feel the "build-your-own" community is moving in the direction of small (mATX or ITX) PCs. I switched over to mATX (and recently, ITX) builds about a year ago and couldn't really go back to a larger case. Takes up a ton less space, you can keep it on your desk more easily, and you can take it places more easily. There are some trade-offs. Cable management takes ~5x as long (lol, but seriously, it does). You also have less airflow in most ITX scenarios, so you have to plan for that. If you're just gaming and overclocking the "normal" amount, however, then you can absolutely fit all the same high-end, full-size parts you are planning on using, in an ITX or mATX case.

In particular, take a peek at some reviews for the Fractal Node 304 & Node 804, Corsair Air 240 & Graphite 380T, EVGA Hadron, and Phanteks Enthoo Evolv. Those are some of the nicer options in the same price range as the Define R5. With how long you plan on owning the PC, you want to make sure you're happy with its looks and size for the duration, so take some time picking the case you like. Nowadays, you aren't limited to just ATX form factor. There are still ITX cases with 5.25" bays and many ITX mobos also have built-in wifi, breaking the reliance on an additional PCI-e slot. Everything is still on the table with a smaller enclosure.

3) While I agree the 8GB 390 is a great card, it's vram is only going to help in certain scenarios. What resolution will you be gaming at? If you're at 1080P, you'll NEVER break 4GB (or even 3.5GB) of vram usage. The 3.5GB issue with the 970 is VERY overblown. Yes, 0.5GB is slower, but you will not be affected by this unless you're running 2x 970s in SLI at 4K. I used a 970 at 1440P extensively, for ~6 months and had zero issues. Additionally, I ran MANY tests where I maxed out games, forcing >3.5GB of ram usage, and I didn't experience any ill-effects. The 970 remains an excellent card in my book. It's priced just about even with the R9 390 and it should be. They're similar in performance and you trade higher power consumption in the AMD card for lower vram in the Nvidia. Your resolution is the critical factor there. If you're at 1440P or lower, I wouldn't even worry. And before you ask, future-proofing is a waste of your time. Buy the card you need for your resolution now. If you think you'll be upgrading your display to 4K in a year, upgrade your video card again in a year. You'll pay less in the end.

For your needs, my build suggestions would be:

i5 6600K
Z170 motherboard to match your selected form factor (ATX, mATX, ITX) in the $125-150 range depending on the features you need
8GB or 16GB depending on how you like the total price
GTX 970 or R9 390 if you're at 1080P, GTX 980 or 390X for 1440P, 980Ti for 4K
EVGA 650 G2 if an Nvidia card, 750 G2 for an AMD card (unless there's a great deal running on a similarly-excellent PSU)
Samsung 850 EVO SSD in at least 250GB capacity


Edit: depending on your resolution and desire to drive the cost down, the R9 380X might be another option, though I'd save it as a budget choice and I would skimp in other areas first.

 

[Dravenspur]

Alright,

1) The Fractal Define R5 is a great case. I love Fractal cases There are many others of equal quality and features in the ATX form factor at a similar price, however, so don't feel like the R5 is the absolute best option. If you don't particularly like the looks of it, let us know and we can recommend some others. Or take a look in the case department at newegg and see if anything stands out to you. Fractal also has the Arc line of cases which are great (focused more on airflow than silence, as is the Define series). Phanteks are great, most Corsair in that price range as well. You have a lot of options

2) I ask about the form factor because I feel the "build-your-own" community is moving in the direction of small (mATX or ITX) PCs. I switched over to mATX (and recently, ITX) builds about a year ago and couldn't really go back to a larger case. Takes up a ton less space, you can keep it on your desk more easily, and you can take it places more easily. There are some trade-offs. Cable management takes ~5x as long (lol, but seriously, it does). You also have less airflow in most ITX scenarios, so you have to plan for that. If you're just gaming and overclocking the "normal" amount, however, then you can absolutely fit all the same high-end, full-size parts you are planning on using in an ITX or mATX case. In particular, take a peek at some reviews for the Fractal Node 304 & Node 804, Corsair Air 240 & Graphite 380T, EVGA Hadron, and Phanteks Enthoo Evolv. Those are some of the nicer options in the same price range as the Define R5. With how long you plan on owning the PC, you want to make sure you're happy with its looks and size for the duration, so take some time picking the case you like. Nowadays, you aren't limited to just ATX form factor. There are still ITX cases with 5.25" bays and many ITX mobos also have built-in wifi, breaking the reliance on an additional PCI-e slot. Everything is still on the table with a smaller enclosure.

3) While I agree the 8GB 390 is a great card, it's vram is only going to help in certain scenarios. What resolution will you be gaming at? If you're at 1080P, you'll NEVER break 4GB (or even 3.5GB) of vram usage. The 3.5GB issue with the 970 is VERY overblown. Yes, 0.5GB is slower, but you will not be affected by this unless you're running 2x 970s in SLI at 4K. I used a 970 at 1440P extensively, for ~6 months and had zero issues. Additionally, I ran MANY tests where I maxed out games, forcing >3.5GB of ram usage, and I didn't experience any ill-effects. The 970 remains an excellent card in my book. It's priced just about even with the R9 390 and it should be. They're similar in performance and you trade higher power consumption in the AMD card for lower vram in the Nvidia. Your resolution is the critical factor there. If you're at 1440P or lower, I wouldn't even worry. And before you ask, future-proofing is a waste of your time. Buy the card you need for your resolution now. If you think you'll be upgrading your display to 4K in a year, upgrade your video card again in a year. You'll pay less in the end.

For your needs, my build suggestions would be:

i5 6600K
Z170 motherboard to match your selected form factor (ATX, mATX, ITX) in the $125-150 range depending on the features you need
8GB or 16GB depending on how you like the total price
GTX 970 or R9 390 if you're at 1080P, GTX 980 or 390X for 1440P, 980Ti for 4K
EVGA 650 G2 if an Nvidia card, 750 G2 for an AMD card (unless there's a great deal running on a similarly-excellent PSU)
Samsung 850 EVO SSD in at least 250GB capacity

I should have mentioned...I already have an EVGA 850 G2 fully modular PSU, so that part is taken care of. I didn't want to have to worry about power for a while. While I don't care about Micro or Mini form factors, the only thing that would hold back case size is the size of the video card and whether upgrades in the future would fit in the case. I guess we don't know if NVIDIA card manufacturers are going to suddenly make longer cards in the future, but I don't want to buy a case and have it only be good through one GPU, know what I mean?

Also, is the i7 CPU more for workstation or server type builds? I noticed you recommended the i5, and while I know it's cheaper, I was just wondering why not an i7? Is it overkill?

 

[ninjacore]

There's currently no benefit (in gaming) to the additional threads of the i7. If you aren't going to use them, I wouldn't pay the extra ~$100 for them. If games come out in a year which benefit from 8 threads (which I doubt since we're just now seeing the benefit of 4 vs. 2), then you can always sell your i5 at that point and pick up a used 6700K (for a lot less than its currently inflated value).

Awesome PSU! You're set there.

As I said, there are plenty of ITX cases which hold very long GPUs. I just fit a Gigabyte GTX 980 G1 into a Node 304 and there's another 3 inches to spare. I would have to look at the length of the sapphire 390, but I doubt it is much longer than the 980 G1.

If you are concerned about internal space, the Node 804 is a good middle ground. I built 4 PCs in it it's still fairly compact, but Fractal managed to leave a ton of space in the main chamber. Great airflow, very quiet. And it's mATX, so if you want to go SLI, you have that open

 

[MNMadman]

SSDs reduce loading times significantly. This includes Windows boot times, starting up web browsers, program loading times, game loading times, loading levels/maps within games, etc. Pretty much all of your everyday usage gets improved with an SSD. The reason to have a platter drive too is because of cost. Most people have lots of programs and data, and not all of it would fit on the small SSDs previously available. You keep all of your performance-sensitive programs and games on the SSD (with the OS), and have the rest on your platter drive along with your data.

There are even some 2TB SSDs now, so you can realistically consider going with an SSD-only build. Longevity isn't really an issue.

And no, that "3.5GB issue" is only with the 970 GPU, due to the way it addresses the graphics RAM. And 970 is still a top-performing GPU despite that.

For CPU, I wouldn't go with an AMD at all. They haven't been competitive with Intel for several generations now. Each of their cores is weak, but they kind of cover it up with more cores. I've read that the new Zen CPU coming up is AMD's attempt to get back into the CPU horsepower competition.

If you want a system that will play the top AAA titles with high graphics settings for the next five years, I'd recommend something like the system I'm getting rid of when I finish my Project: Black & Redder system that I'm currently gathering parts for.

Built in late October 2014
Intel i5-4690k
ASUS Maximus VII Gene mATX
Corsair Vengeance LP DDR3-1600 CL9 4x4GB
Zotac GTX 980 AMP! Omega 4GB GPU
Crucial MX100 512GB SSD
Seagate Barracuda 3TB 7,200 RPM HD
ASUS BW-12B1ST DVD Writer
Corsair Carbide 200R Windowed case
Seasonic G-550 550W PS
Acer XB270H Abprz 27" 1920x1080 144Hz G-Sync monitor

 

[caddi daddi]

the 3.5 thing with the nvidia 970 is a non issue, and is limited to the 970 and as you have seen the whiners have quieted down now and found out there was no reason to cry about it.
I game with them and have never had this issue raise it's ugly little head.
go with an i5, the ht on the i7 is so usless unless your software can make use of it.
in the 1150 and 1151 socket boards it's just pick one that has the feature set for you and fits the budget, I have yet to hear about a "bad" board in 1150 or 1151.
get an ssd, a big one, 120gigs is to small with games taking 60+ gigs.
good card choice.
great psu, just keep that.
very nice case and cases ninja is pointing to.

 

[Dravenspur]

There's currently no benefit (in gaming) to the additional threads of the i7. If you aren't going to use them, I wouldn't pay the extra ~$100 for them. If games come out in a year which benefit from 8 threads (which I doubt since we're just now seeing the benefit of 4 vs. 2), then you can always sell your i5 at that point and pick up a used 6700K (for a lot less than its currently inflated value).

Awesome PSU! You're set there.

As I said, there are plenty of ITX cases which hold very long GPUs. I just fit a Gigabyte GTX 980 G1 into a Node 304 and there's another 3 inches to spare. I would have to look at the length of the sapphire 390, but I doubt it is much longer than the 980 G1.

If you are concerned about internal space, the Node 804 is a good middle ground. I built 4 PCs in it it's still fairly compact, but Fractal managed to leave a ton of space in the main chamber. Great airflow, very quiet. And it's mATX, so if you want to go SLI, you have that open

Can you recommend ITX or Micro ATX cases that have a 5.25 inch bay? As I said, I have a 5.25 inch drive I'd like to hang onto to watch movies with. Or am I limited to an ATX case because of the drive? And I guess I'll say this...I recently bought a Gigabyte R9 390 card because it was the only high end card that would fit in my current case, but the games I play keep shutting down on me.

I'm not sure if it's the airflow (only one fan in my current case) or that the Gigabyte card just isn't that good. That's why I was thinking of going with Sapphire. It's quieter (supposedly) than the Gigabyte card. Actually, now that I think about it, the noise I hear from my current build is my case fan going a thousand miles a second. The Gigabyte card might be just fine.

 

[Dravenspur]

Another thing. I'm looking at the 6600K processor on Amazon right now and in a review for the processor someone says if I don't care about overclocking (which I don't, because I'm not looking for water cooling right now) I could go with an H170 motherboard and the i5 6600 (non-K version) since it's cheaper and comes with a heatsink. What do you guys think? Or if you guys think I should stick with the K version, could you recommend a cooler for the CPU that works?

 

[ninjacore]

I'm sure you could find an ITX case with a 5.25" bay (silver stone SG05 maybe?), but the newer models are coming without them for a reason. Optical drives are going the way of spinning HDDs (read: away). If you really need one (I do occasionally), get an external enclosure for yours or just buy a new external drive altogether. I've seen them for $25ish. Not worth affecting the decision on a nice case just to keep a $25 drive.

I would start a separate thread for your current 390 issue (sounds RMA worthy to me if you can narrow it down to the card).

If you have any intention of overclocking anytime in the future, (and you don't need water cooling to do so), then definitely get a K CPU and a Z170 board.

If you're not overclocking, then the H series board and non-K chip are an alternative, but you aren't saving too much. I don think it's worth it, personally. You're giving up free performance down the road (and resale value).

 

[MNMadman]

If you're not overclocking, there's no reason to go with a K processor. We just assume that because this is Overclockers dot com, by default everyone here wants to overclock. The cooler that comes with the 6600 will be enough to keep it cool.

 

[ninjacore]

I don't think Skylake CPUs come with coolers? Or is that just the K version?

 

[MNMadman]

Standards come with heat sink and fan. Ks do not.

 

[Dravenspur]

I have already RMA'd my card and got a replacement. That's why I think now it's an airflow issue. At least I hope it is. If I don't need water cooling to overclock, then can you recommend a heatsink for the 6600K that would work? Since the K version doesn't come with a heatsink.

Also, you're correct. I had forgotten about external enclosures for the 5.25 inch drive. That's my fault. Ok, so now that that's out of the way, I guess I can go with one of the cases you mentioned earlier.

I just looked up the GTX 980 and Gigabyte says it's actually only 11.77 inches long compared to the 12.1 inches of the Sapphire R9 390. One of the reasons I didn't think about going with NVIDIA is you have to register your card in order to get any updated drivers now...or if not now, in the very near future, like January or something. I guess it's not that big of a deal. You'd want to register anyway for support for the card if you needed it.

What about the fan support on the cases you mentioned? If I don't want to water cool, are the three fans included with the Node 304 enough? How many fans are you using?

Also I just saw an unfavorable review of the 6600K. One unfavorable review is no big deal, but the reviewer did mention that if I wanted to overclock the 6600K I would have to go with water cooling...air wouldn't keep it cool enough. You think that's true? If that's the case, I've never water cooled before. Could you recommend a good water cooling setup for the Node 304 case?

 

[DNRDustin]

I think the ability to overclock will keep your rig competitive and relevant a little longer. Even if you don't plan to now the option to push it further, as opposed to buying a new one when yours becomes "obsolete", is something to consider.

 

[ninjacore]

Air cooler will depend entirely on the case you pick. Take some time and research them and let us know which you like, then we can make motherboard and cooler suggestions from there.

Where are these "reviews" you're reading? If they're consumer reviews on Amazon or something, you can disregard them. You can absolutely overclock a 6600K on air.

I wouldn't worry about the driver thing. There will always be a way to get the latest driver.

One thing to keep in mind as you look at cases: AMD cards will draw more power and therefore require greater heat dissipation. If you keep/go with the 390, it likely will run a bit louder (from increased fan speeds) if you go with a smaller case. Personally, I wouldn't go with anything smaller than a Node 804 for an AMD card. I don't like loud builds, though, and I also wouldn't go with an AMD card

 

[Dravenspur]

It looks like, from doing some research, I'm limited by my PSU length on cases. If I want to go with mITX, it has to be a Cooler Master. While I like the Fractal Design Node 304 case, my PSU would not fit with a GPU of any significant length. From Fractal's site "Graphics cards longer than 170 mm will conflict with PSUs longer than 160mm" and the EVGA PSU I have is 180 mm long. I wouldn't be able to get a GTX 980 in the case with my PSU. If I want to go with mATX, I can use the Fractal Design Arc series of cases. So, it looks like I'm looking at the Cooler Master Silencio 352 or Corsair Air 240 for a mATX case or a Cooler Master Elite 130 for a mITX case. I'm actually leaning toward the Cooler Master cases as I like the, in my opinion, sleeker, cleaner look compared to the Corsair or Fractal cases.

Actually, the Elite 130 only has 2 expansion slots. Since all newer GPU's that I've seen take up at least two slots, I wouldn't be able to use this case unless the motherboard I use had wireless NIC capability (and I don't know that there is one). I am upstairs in my house and the router is downstairs, so I am not going to route a cable through the house to the router.

After watching a review on YouTube done by Paul's Hardware, I've found out that the Silencio 352 case has poor cable management, according to Paul. While that's not a deal breaker on using the case, it was unexpected. Oh, and ninjacore, yes, it was a consumer review on Amazon for the 6600K.

Lastly, if anyone has other ideas for a case that is mATX or mITX compatible and can hold both a 180 mm PSU and a GTX 980, preferably with no 5.25 inch bays as I am really liking the idea of using an external enclosure for my drive, that would be appreciated.

 

[ninjacore]

Good call on the PSU length. I actually tried to fit the 850 G2 in my Node 304 and it was too large. Not sure how that slipped my mind :/

160 is definitely the largest I would go in that case and that's w removing the PSU bracket.

Another case with similar layout to the Elite 130 is the Silverstone SG13. With either of those, you'll want to look up "case name GPU model" to see if others have been able to fit the specific GPU you want. I had an SG13 with an Asus DCUII 290X at one point and it requires the faceplate on the heat sink to be removed before it would fit. So you'll need to look at card height and length. "Completed builds" on pcpartpicker is a good resource for fitment research as you can find pictures of the components you want in the case you want.

I can definitely see how you'd have cable mgmt issues in the Silencio. I will have a look around for other options, but the Air 240 is very nice. Fits large PSUs, rubber grommets on the cable mgmt holes, good airflow, and fairly large amount of space in the main compartment (I think I fit - barely fit - a 290X lightning in one).

Motherboards with built-in wifi are becoming more popular, actually, especially in the ITX form factor. Admittedly, I haven't looked into the Z170 revisions of these, but anything with "ac" in the model name will have it. A wireless dongle is always an option as well (though I would prefer onboard).

Edit: Corsair 380T will fit a 180mm PSU. It's not my favorite unless you go to LAN parties often, but it has some nice features.

I don't know much about it, but the Raijintek Styx seems kinda neat and looks like it would hold a larger PSU.

Raidmax Hyperion looks like it has some nice features, though that's typically a "cheapo" brand.

Thermaltake makes a few cheap cube cases. Not sure on quality or features.

Bitfenix makes several smaller cases, though I don't really like the styling.

Fractal Define Mini looks nice and has a "clean" look with a focus on silence.

Honestly, Air 240 is still my pick amongst smaller cases which will fit a 180mm PSU and large GPU. Newegg has them for $70 right now (after $10 rebate)

Do note this, however:

https://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/2ovh91

As I said, I fit a 290X Lightning, but I think I remember the side panel barely went on

 

[Dravenspur]

It looks like I'm down to the Fractal Design Arc Mini R2, which is growing on me, or the Corsair Air 240 or 540. The 240 only has 290 mm of GPU clearance and the ASUS STRIX GTX 980 is 288.5 mm long, so I'm not sure if that would work. I only say the ASUS card because I looked at silentpcreview.com, at a silent build they did and they say that the ASUS STRIX is really quiet.

I know I said I wanted a case without 5.25 inch bays, but I can always leave the covers on if I want and just plug in the drive through an enclosure, or use the bay if I have the room, so either way it's not a big deal. In fact, if I decide on the Air 540, I will go with an enclosure, because I've never been a fan of vertically mounted drives. I decided against the Cooler Master Elite 130 because the maximum PSU length is 180mm which is the length of mine exactly, and I'm thinking I want a little extra space for the wires, even though it is modular. Does that sound right to you guys? Would you always want a little extra space for GPU's and PSU's just in case, or does having a PSU the exact length that the case can hold not bother you? If some of you say it doesn't bother you, I may go with the Elite 130, just because I really like the look. Although, because my PSU is 180mm, the Cooler Master site says I can't really do cable management with it, which I guess is fine. I don't do any cable management now, and I've never had a problem with it.

Of those four cases, the FD Arc Mini R2, the Corsair Air 240 and 540, and the Cooler Master Elite 130, which do you guys think is the best? How is the airflow in the cases?