Thinking of doing a new build

[ninjacore]

I would rule out the cooler master with your PSU and GPU. They probably would fit, but it would be very tight. Air 240 isn't really that much bigger of a case and will give you a lot more flexibility and features. And bottom line, the CM is just a cheap case. It can't really compete with the rest of these and it shouldn't be expected to since it's half the price.

The Air 540 is way too big for my tastes. It will have, by far, the best airflow, but it is pretty big.

I did a build for a friend in the Mini R2. Awesome case. Great airflow, which makes it extremely quiet. It has all the features which make the Arc series awesome.

For me, it would be between the Mini R2 and the Air 240. Feature and airflow-wise, they're gonna be neck and neck. Dust filters, rubber grommeted cable mgmt, nice looking, easy to build in... You'll get a slightly smaller overall package with the Corsair, but a little higher quality "feel" from the Fractal. Both are excellent choices and I would go whichever you like the looks of more. Watch YouTube videos and read some more reviews, but they're both awesome.

I think I linked a Reddit thread a while ago with a write up on GPU clearance in the 240. Basically, you have nothing to worry about. There are pictures of a guy with a 308mm 970 G1 installed plus a front mounted 240mm rad. You'll be able to fit any card you want in there lengthwise.

Do check in card height tho. Most will fit, a few might give you issues.

The Strix 980 is a great one. It was a coin flip for me between it and the G1. I think the Strix would have been quieter, which I probably would have valued more.

 

[caddi daddi]

I have an air 450, airfow is great, the utlity room is nice to have, it's not really a small case at all.

 

[Dravenspur]

It seems the Arc Midi or Mini R2 case is the one for me, since as you mentioned, ninjacore, I'm a little worried about the height/width of an ASUS STRIX card in an Air 240. I did some extra research and it doesn't look good for clearance in the case. Also I saw a review of the Air 240 from Hardware Canucks on YouTube and he said the side panels are flimsy and the PCI clamp in the case for any PCI card is not totally secure, even when a card fits. The card still moves around a bit in the case with the card secured. I was thinking of going with an mATX or mITX board, regardless of which case I chose, even though the Arc Midi R2 can fit full ATX boards.

It looks like, from watching a build in the Mini R2 case on YouTube, I would have to get a motherboard with built in wireless NIC support, as there won't be room with the expansion slots for a GPU and a NIC. That's not a big deal, though. The Midi R2, of course, is no problem with 7 vertical expansion slots, so I could put a GPU and NIC in the Midi R2. Now I guess I'm wondering about CPU cooling, as the 6600K doesn't come with one, and I've never used anything besides a giant heatsink on top of the CPU. If anyone could recommend a good CPU cooler, that would be great. I've looked at a lot of builds, and it seems the Corsair line of coolers is popular.

Also, if a good motherboard could be recommended as well. I keep looking at Newegg, and none of the motherboards get a full five eggs. I don't expect them to, as someone will always find fault with something on any piece of hardware, but this does make it hard to choose for me. I'd like a board with built in wireless capability, as I said. Although it would be annoying to have to replace the motherboard when the NIC chip fails, even though the rest of the board would be fine. I'm wondering about the fan speed control on the top of the Midi and Mini cases if I decide to go with water cooling. I know I said days ago I wasn't thinking about it, but now I am. I've never done it before, and it looks like fun. Does anyone have either of these cases and use water cooling and still use the fan speed control switch on top of the case? Or if you water cool, is the switch superfluous?

 

[ninjacore]

Sorry, I kept saying Midi in my last post instead of Mini. I meant to say the latter. I did 2 builds in Midis and one for a friend in the Mini. The Mini is quite a bit smaller than the Midi (mATX vs ATX). Both are very nice. I'd pick the Mini out of the two. Unless you need the space, I don't see the point of a huge case anymore.

There's ton of room for more than just a single GPU on an mATX board. The Asus Gene will be top of the line in that form factor. MSI Gaming series will have a slightly decreased feature set for significantly less money. I will look at Z170 boards in a bit and post back.

By water cooling, do you mean a closed loop AIO or a custom loop? I'm assuming (and would recommend for you) an AIO.

I've used an H110 (H110i GTX is the current version) and an H80i GT. Both cooled well, but not much better (if any?) than a high end air cooler. They do look much nicer when installed, however (personal preference). If your case has a side window, then I could see the appeal of water cooling. If no window, go high end air as it will be much quieter.

Gigabyte Z170MX Gaming 5 - $150ish
Asus Gene VIII - $220ish

Those would probably be my picks. Either will work with a PCI wifi card in the PCI(-e) slot further from the GPU.

Oh, and the fan controller on the Fractal cases is a 3 speed switch for the case fans. I usually just set it on 5 or 7V and forget about it.

 

[Interlocutor]

Hi, it seems that you are leaning, in part, toward a rig like the one I built 2 years ago and have upgraded over time. That case (jn my sig.) was originally built in a Bitfenix prodigy case. I loved that case and customized it. I got rid of mostly because it had size issues with the psu and other things that I don’t remember now.
The Fractal| Design-FD-CA-Node-804-black is both roomier and a great looking case. The cable management is also better and that helps keep it cooler. the psu in there is 160.02mm. The gpu, (7970) is a beast at 274.32mm. It was just a tad too long and was blocked by a front panel fan. I got around that by removing the fan in favor of a slimmer fan (with a blue led as a bonus). Corsair aio coolers work great in the restricted space--just make sure you get one with the appropriate rad size. I mount them on the top. Oh, and plug in the usb, fan and pump stuff before you seat the mobo as it is a ***** to make the connections later.
I learned, sometimes the hard way, that smaller cases can be very challenging and there will be some tradeoffs. For example, the front panel audio on the Asus board is under the video card and I had to skip installing it because the card wouldn’t seat properly. Everything you buy has measurements you can check.
I just built a new Atx sized rig in a corsair air 540 (mid-sized cube). It is the best case I’ve ever built into and I’ve built at least 10 rigs over the years. It was so nice not to hump around trying to squeeze everything in.

 

[ninjacore]

Not sure why you would have had an issue with a 275mm card? Node 804 was mentioned, however, and OP didn't seem to like the visuals. They're leaning toward the Fractal Arc Mini R2 at this point, which is an equally nice case (though, I prefer the Node myself )

 

[Interlocutor]

It's been a while but I think it was due to the depth of the fan.

 

[Interlocutor]

I checked again, this time with cnet specs and get 284.48mm.

 

[ninjacore]

That sounds closer. What I always did in my node 804 builds, is move the lower front fan to the "floor" of the case, directly under the GPU. There was a dust filter there as well, so it gave me extra clearance up front and cool air directly onto the card.

 

[Dravenspur]

Actually, ninjacore, the Node 304 wouldn't work, but looking at the 804, it's growing on me, too. I don't think I would have a lower front fan as the only dedicated SSD slots are on the bottom of the case. Have you ever done a rad for the CPU, say, out the top, and regular fans in the front? Or if I want to water cool the CPU am I forced to use water cooling on the front of the case, as well, for the case itself?

I know I can put SSD's in the 3.5 inch hard drive cages and I don't have to use the bottom slots, but I like the idea. Actually, scratch that. There's actually up to 4 positions for SSD's. I don't have to use the 3.5 inch bays at all for the SSD if I don't want to. I was thinking one 512 SSD since as was mentioned before, games are relatively big, so a 128 to 256 GB would get filled pretty quickly, and maybe a 1 TB mechanical drive for other things. I won't worry about a bigger mechanical drive, since most of the things on the machine will be games. The 1 TB drive might have Office on it or something, or I might want to dual boot with Linux; nothing major. Also, the Node 804 will allow me to use an external enclosure for the 5.25 inch drive without having the 5.25 inch coverings on the case and never using them with the Arc Mini R2. And there is 5 PCI slots on the 804 rather than 4 on the Mini for a second GPU (if I happen to get one that is a little thicker that ends up taking 2.5 slots, or something) or my NIC if the NIC on the motherboard fails. I know there is a fifth expansion slot on the Mini, but it is vertical...I could use it for the NIC I suppose, but like I said, if I happen to get a second GPU that is a little thicker, I will run into problems using the Mini R2.

One thing you mentioned...is water cooling relatively loud compared to fans? It won't do me any good to use the ASUS STRIX because I want a quiet machine, but then have the water cooling be something loud in the case.

 

[Interlocutor]

I have my ssds down there.

 

[Interlocutor]

I have the rad of the Corsair Hydro Series H100i on the top of the case. I don't like to eliminate fans as I like all the cooling I can get. Actually i wish I could have installed a fan on the bottom of the case as I have another blue led fan but didn't want to replace the superior corsair above the one I used behind the video card. I only have ssds in the case but I have an external vantec nexstar duplicator with two hard drives for extra storage--usb 3.0.I use cloud storage so I really don't need a lot of hdd. No hdds means more open space for cooling and better wire control. The water cooling is only loud when you're cranking.

 

[ninjacore]

Actually, ninjacore, the Node 304 wouldn't work, but looking at the 804, it's growing on me, too. I don't think I would have a lower front fan as the only dedicated SSD slots are on the bottom of the case. Have you ever done a rad for the CPU, say, out the top, and regular fans in the front? Or if I want to water cool the CPU am I forced to use water cooling on the front of the case, as well, for the case itself?

I know I can put SSD's in the 3.5 inch hard drive cages and I don't have to use the bottom slots, but I like the idea. Actually, scratch that. There's actually up to 4 positions for SSD's. I don't have to use the 3.5 inch bays at all for the SSD if I don't want to. I was thinking one 512 SSD since as was mentioned before, games are relatively big, so a 128 to 256 GB would get filled pretty quickly, and maybe a 1 TB mechanical drive for other things. I won't worry about a bigger mechanical drive, since most of the things on the machine will be games. The 1 TB drive might have Office on it or something, or I might want to dual boot with Linux; nothing major. Also, the Node 804 will allow me to use an external enclosure for the 5.25 inch drive without having the 5.25 inch coverings on the case and never using them with the Arc Mini R2. And there is 5 PCI slots on the 804 rather than 4 on the Mini for a second GPU (if I happen to get one that is a little thicker that ends up taking 2.5 slots, or something) or my NIC if the NIC on the motherboard fails. I know there is a fifth expansion slot on the Mini, but it is vertical...I could use it for the NIC I suppose, but like I said, if I happen to get a second GPU that is a little thicker, I will run into problems using the Mini R2.

One thing you mentioned...is water cooling relatively loud compared to fans? It won't do me any good to use the ASUS STRIX because I want a quiet machine, but then have the water cooling be something loud in the case.

I'd say it's a coin flip between the Node 804 and Arc Mini R2. I prefer the look of the Node, but I've built in both and they're equally well-featured.

Node 304 definitely will not work for you (only because your power supply), but either of the other two will be perfect.

I did not do an AIO in the Mini R2 build for my friend, but I think I remember it fitting a 240mm rad (H100/X40/H220-X/...) at the top.

I did several in the Node 804. It actually supports a 280mm AIO in the "rear" chamber. Here's a thread I started on that effort. It wasn't exactly plug-n-play, but it wasn't too difficult. 240mm should be a piece of cake and you can definitely do it at the top.

Definitely lots of places to install an SSD in either the Mini R2 or Node 804. In the Node, I put mine in a bracket behind the front panel.

Your last question is a good one to ask now. At this point, high end air coolers are only beaten by a few degrees by the best AIOs. You can get great cooling results with either. High end air coolers (Noctuas, Thermalrights, Cryorig...) will definitely be more quiet, however. You could swap out fans on an AIO and create custom fan profiles for it and you'll get pretty close to the noise level of a Noctua NH-D15, for example, but you'll have spent a ton of money doing so. In order to get the same level of cooling and noise level from both, I would say you'll be spending ~$150 for the AIO vs. $90 for the air cooler. Those are full retail prices and you can probably spend a lot less by the way (Thermalright True Spirit Power is only $55!!!), but you get the idea.

So why would anyone spend more on an AIO? Looks, plain and simple. They definitely do look nicer and a whole lot cleaner in a build. In the ITX build I just put together, I just switched from an H80i GT to the TR Spirit Power in order to quiet things down, but if I had a case with a window (my Node 304 doesn't), the decision would have been a lot more difficult.

Now that being said, air coolers aren't hideous (well some aren't anyway ). The Cryorig coolers, in particular, I think look pretty cool, but when you look in the side window and you have a tower-style air cooler, it is going to dominate everything else because of its size. It's definitely something to consider.

 

[Dravenspur]

In thinking about it some more, and doing some looking around, I think I will go with the Arc Mini R2, only because I need the 5.25 inch drive bay. I have a lot of movies and TV shows on disc, and it's either buy a Node 804 and then an external blu ray drive for around $80 extra with the case, or buy the Arc Mini R2 and use the drive I already have. I'm using this rig as my gaming/movie/TV show machine. I like buying seasons of shows I like...I know there are services like Netflix out there, but I enjoy just buying the shows and movies I like, even though Netflix is only 8 or 10 bucks a month or something like that. I don't want all those "Because you watched "X" show, you may enjoy these shows" things that Netflix does. Plus Netflix and other services rotate out movies and shows every month and I don't want to be stuck where a show I like is gone for a month or two. I'm still living at home, and when I move out, this will save me having to buy a TV and blu ray player.

So, now that I've decided, on to the innards of the case. According to Fractal's site, my PSU will be fine as long as I don't use a bottom mounted fan, which I wasn't going to use anyway. I'm not sure about two GPU's in SLI with the Mini R2, as there are only 4 horizontal slots on the back. I'll just have to get another card that is double slot and not, say, 2.5 slots, I guess. For now, I think, one 512 GB SSD for OS and games and one mechanical that is one to two TB for everything else will work for storage. Then the ASUS STRIX 980, because it's relatively quiet, for the GPU.

On Fractal's site for the Mini R2, they say I can do a 120mm rad on the back and I saw a build that looked like that on PCPartPicker.com, with an ODD installed, so that's what I'll do. Then I take out the top HDD cage for the ASUS GPU, add an extra fan on the front so I get two air intakes and the fan out of the top and the water cooling on the back for the CPU, and I should be golden. I'm only thinking of water cooling because the 6600K doesn't come with a fan and I thought the rad might look better than a giant (relatively, of course, this being an mATX case) fan on top of the CPU.

Can someone recommend a good 120mm rad for the CPU? Or would that even be feasible? Would it have to be at least a 240mm rad to keep the 6600K cool enough with overclocking? It looks like I can also do a 240mm rad on the top while keeping the ODD if I take off the top and rear fans and just have the two fans in the front with the water cooling on the top. So if I have to go with a 240mm rad, that can be done.

Also, ninjacore, the ASUS Gene VIII only got three eggs on Newegg reviews. I know it's more expensive than the Gigabyte board, and that usually translates to better parts, better build quality, but only eight of the (so far) 35 reviews gave it four or five eggs, whereas the Gigabyte board got eight out of 12 reviews of four or five eggs.

I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier. I can just use a USB network adapter and not use up a PCI slot for a NIC at all. So SLI is completely doable, even on the Gigabyte board. That is excellent news!

 

[ninjacore]

Sounds like we're ready for a list then

Fractal Arc Mini R2

Gigabyte Z170MX Gaming | Asus Gene VIII

6600K

2x4GB 3000/C15 | 3200/C16 - Ripjaw V seems priced the best

500GB Samsung 850 EVO

2TB Western Digital - if it's just for file storage, I'd go with an external, portable My Passport Ultra

Strix GTX 980

EVGA 850 G2 - you already own this



In 120mm, I'd recommend the Corsair H80i GT. It competes with all the 240/280mm mainstream AIOs and doesn't produce too much more noise if you configure your fan profiles correctly. Configurable lighting on the pump/block will make it look really nice through the side window.

If you want to spend some extra money, you could go with a Swiftech H120-X. Higher quality unit, but they're a little tough to find, I think, and pricier.

Rough estimate, I'd say you're in the $1200-1300 range with those parts.

 

[Interlocutor]

Good over-clocks require good cooling. Once you get all those great parts in there, especially a second vga card and the extra power requirements most need, it's going to be chock full of clutter--little room to breath. On my new build, my research showed the NZXT Kraken X61 RL-KRX61-01 280mm to be both a bit cooler and quieter than the Corsair aios. If it fits, this might be the best choice for your buIld (lights up too and supposedly better software control).
In the live and learn department: mounting an aio rad on the front or back puts it so close to the pump that the tubing is all scunched up and difficult to keep away from the fans, and forget about getting to the mobo thereafter.

 

[Dravenspur]

That is a great point, Interlocutor, about mounting on the cooler on the back. I hadn't thought of that. On PCPartPicker, I went with the Swiftech H-220-X cooler (you were right ninjacore, the H-120-X doesn't even show up on PCPartPicker, not sure how much it is), because according to PCPartPicker, it is quieter than the Corsair H80i-GT, so I would mount that on the top anyway, as it is a 240mm. All-in-all, with an OEM version of Windows 10 (since this is a new computer), I'm coming in at around $1,560, which isn't bad. I still have to do some research as to which board is better, the Gigabyte Z170MX or the ASUS Gene VIII, as the reviews on Newegg aren't glowing for either one. Not that either one is bad, of course.

Also, Interlocutor, it looks like since I will be using the ODD bay, a 240mm rad on the top is as big as I can go, so the NZXT rad is out.

Thank you so much, ninjacore and Interlocutor, for your help on this build. I couldn't have done it without you guys.

As an aside, is there a reason I would want to SLI GTX 980's? I'm just wondering since the 980 now knocks pretty much every game out of the park graphically, why would I want/need more GPU power? Also, I noticed with the ASUS Gene VIII (and the Gigabyte MX, too, and probably every motherboard ever made) that if I SLI two GPU's it lowers the speed of the PCI-E slots. It goes from x16 for one to two x8's. That's not a big deal, of course, but would that slow down the cards or something? Not sure how SLI works.

 

[ninjacore]

That is a great point, Interlocutor, about mounting on the cooler on the back. I hadn't thought of that. On PCPartPicker, I went with the Swiftech H-220-X cooler (you were right ninjacore, the H-120-X doesn't even show up on PCPartPicker, not sure how much it is), because according to PCPartPicker, it is quieter than the Corsair H80i-GT, so I would mount that on the top anyway, as it is a 240mm. All-in-all, with an OEM version of Windows 10 (since this is a new computer), I'm coming in at around $1,560, which isn't bad. I still have to do some research as to which board is better, the Gigabyte Z170MX or the ASUS Gene VIII, as the reviews on Newegg aren't glowing for either one. Not that either one is bad, of course.

Also, Interlocutor, it looks like since I will be using the ODD bay, a 240mm rad on the top is as big as I can go, so the NZXT rad is out.

Thank you so much, ninjacore and Interlocutor, for your help on this build. I couldn't have done it without you guys.

As an aside, is there a reason I would want to SLI GTX 980's? I'm just wondering since the 980 now knocks pretty much every game out of the park graphically, why would I want/need more GPU power? Also, I noticed with the ASUS Gene VIII (and the Gigabyte MX, too, and probably every motherboard ever made) that if I SLI two GPU's it lowers the speed of the PCI-E slots. It goes from x16 for one to two x8's. That's not a big deal, of course, but would that slow down the cards or something? Not sure how SLI works.

Any of the Swiftech AIOs will cool very well and be very quiet. It's an excellent choice. Maybe it was H140-X I was thinking of? I know they have a 280mm rad version (H240-X), not sure what else.

The Gene will give you a few extra features over the Gigabyte, but I don't know if it will be worth it. Read professional reviews (not sure if overclockers.com did one on either board?) to compare the two. I would take any user reviews from newegg or elsewhere with a big grain of salt. Sure, 1/2 of them might be 3/5 stars, but for every one of those, there are 100 people who bought the board, had zero issues, and just never left a review. I don't think I've ever reviewed any product on a retailer's site, for example, whether I had an issue or not. Typically, people are only going to review if they've received a DOA product or are mad. Lemons can come from any manufacturer. Don't completely dismiss them if you find a bad trend, but just keep this in mind.

I would consider SLI 980s only if you want to game at 4K resolution. I have a 980 GTX at 1440P and it is smooth across all games I've tried, maxed out. I can't remember if you mentioned or not, but what is your resolution? If it's 2560x1440 or lower, no need for multiple cards. Whenever possible, you want to stick with a single GPU to avoid all the issues which come along with multiple cards (heat, drivers, scaling...).

GPUs don't saturate the available bandwidth enough to make 8x vs. 16x slots an issue. I think I remember seeing a 1% difference at some point (within the margin of error). If you go SLI in the future for 4K, you'll have no problem with a board that only does 8x/8x.

 

[Dravenspur]

Yeah ninjacore, I did forget to mention my monitor is only 1080p, I'm not even at 1440 and I don't see a reason to. So I wouldn't need to SLI anyway. Excellent.

I do wonder about the airflow. If I take off both the top and rear fan for a rad, how does air get out of the case with the two fans on the front? I get that the two fans in front are intake fans, passing air over the GPU and other parts inside the case, but then where does the air go if I don't have any other fans on the case, just the radiator? I shouldn't worry about overheating using two fans and a radiator? I saw a build like this on PCPartPicker as I mentioned, with two front fans and a top rad, but it doesn't make sense to me logistically. I know there are still holes in the back of the case for air to escape where the fan used to be, and I guess the air gets there eventually with no fan in place, but I'm just not sure how it works.

 

[ninjacore]

The fans on the rad will be pushing the air inside the case through the radiator and out of the case. It's slightly less efficient than pulling in outside air through the rad, but unavoidable unless you have AIO up front and you only lose a couple degrees, so no big deal.

Honestly, if you're at 1080P, you could do a GTX 970 and max out any game as well. 980 will "last longer", of course, but is not necessary if you wanted to save money and SLI is absolutely off the table.