Tips on getting a good O/C?

[Blackweb]

Sorry for being the noob at this, but I'm trying to learn. As you may be guessing I'm relatively new at OC'ing and would like to do this right and understand it to a certain extent. I guess I have several questions, but since the first step is which cooler.. I choose the cooling section of the forum hope it's ok?


Anyways here are my specs:

CASE: Define R3, No PSU - Silver Arrow

PSU: 750W Corsair TX CMPSU-750TXEU 140m

Mainboard: Asus P6T Deluxe V2 Intel X58 DDR3
CrossFire/SLI

CPU: Intel Core i7 930 2.80 GHz 8MB Box
130W S1366 (currently at 3150mhz = 150 bclk)

GFX: MSI N480GTX-M2D15 - GF GTX 480 -
1.5 GB - DirectX 11

RAM: Corsair 12 GB kit DDR3 1333 Mhz 9-9-9-24

HD: Samsung 1TB SATAII/ 7200 HD103SJ

I'm tring to understand it all I've been reading posts, forums, guides you name it, alot this last week but I wouldn't say my complete understanding has moved all that much. Here are my main questions.

First which cooler would you suggest I choose? (I'd prefer one that is able to handle up to a 4ghz overclock on this CPU)

And yes I'm currently running with stock cooler so this will all be theory until I get my new cpu cooler.
The minor OC'ing I've done so far was after making sure in several places that there would be no harm to this and I have monitored my CPU temps ever since (no real increase) but then again, very small OC.

What I've done so far is go to bios disable auto OC option and set it to manual. Then changed Bclk value to 150 which gives me 3.15 ghz as opposed to the 2.80 default speed of the CPU. Then I set DDR to 12xx (for some reason if I left this on auto, it downclocked the ram to lowest settings 10xx something like that?) considering my ram are at 1333 I assume it's safe as long as I don't pick anything higher than 1333 in this setting right? Do I understand this part right?

Anyways my goal is to reach 3.7-8 ghz with this CPU, so after I buy my cooler I need to understand what I have to experiment with to reach it. Why is it you can't just settle for changing these few settings I have changed with my current stock cooler? I mean Bclk, ram frequency and disabling of speedstepping? Why do I have to experiment with voltages etc. and how do I know how much I should change the various settings as I go along?

Why is it I can't just set my Bclk to whatever equals fx 3.7 ghz, see if it's stable with tests under prime and be a happy monkey?

Hope someone has the patience to help me out and please ask if you need anything clarified. Please don't refer me to sporadic guides a newbie can't understand anyways, I have really tried to understand what all these things mean and while I do understand it abit more than before, I still don't feel knowledgable enough to tinker with this stuff more than I already have...

Anyways thanks in advance!

 

[bigben6]

Good budget cooler is the hyper 212+: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...03065&cm_re=hyper_212+-_-35-103-065-_-Product

High end cooler is the NDH14: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

Past that is water, someone else will have to talk to you about.

As far as just upping voltages, your asking the CPU to go faster and faster, much like a car at SOME POINT you have to feed it more power, so you will find a point on stock voltages that it is no longer stable, say 3.8ghz... but then you an add a little more voltage and it will becomes stable at 3.8ghz, but more voltage means more heat, thus you need a decent cooler....

You're on the right track...

 

[m0r7if3r]

http://www.overclockers.com/updated-intel-overclocking-guides/

main thing is what your budget is, then you'll get recommendations for coolers that suit you.

 

[Blackweb]

Good budget cooler is the hyper 212+: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...03065&cm_re=hyper_212+-_-35-103-065-_-Product

High end cooler is the NDH14: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

Past that is water, someone else will have to talk to you about.

As far as just upping voltages, your asking the CPU to go faster and faster, much like a car at SOME POINT you have to feed it more power, so you will find a point on stock voltages that it is no longer stable, say 3.8ghz... but then you an add a little more voltage and it will becomes stable at 3.8ghz, but more voltage means more heat, thus you need a decent cooler....

You're on the right track...

Hi thanks for the tip, that answer was exactly what I was looking for
Any chance you can clarify why people are always changing alot of other voltage related settings aswell? I mean since it's the CPU that needs power why is it necessary (in many OC threads I've seen/various 4ghz setups) to change various settings that also has to do with voltage?

As for the cooler I'm thinking something along the line of 80-100$ (I live in denmark but prices are usually about the same in the end) I'm willing to pay abit extra for a cooler that is also relatively quiet though.
My criteria is basically, can handle an i7 930 at 4ghz and is as quiet as possible while doing it.

Btw as more of a sidenote, I have 2 case fans (which is already in the define R3). But my CPU, MB and GFX was getting abit too hot. Then I removed a noise reductive cover on the side and installed the fan from my old rig, so it blows air onto lower end of mainboard+GFX card (tried outtake didnt make a diff), this reduced mainboard temp by 15 degrees celsius, CPU and GFX by about 5-10 aswell. Plus All cabling is handled very well if I do say so myself. My point is airflow inside the case should be pretty good. My mainboard hasn't risen above 47 degrees since the third fan.

Also on a sidenote with this mainboard, the auto overclocking feature (which is on by default) sucks major donkey balls! I was getting temps past 80C when running games at maxed settings, after I set it to manual and OC'ed to 3150 mhz I'm getting max temps at 70-74degrees while playing games in maxed settings. MB and CPU Idles at 36 degrees. I dare not stress test the CPU with stock since I'm pretty sure it will take me well into the 90's. (sensor test showed max 76 degrees)

Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Cooler, this cooler looks pretty promising can anyone verify that this can handle 4.0ghz without making too much noise? (assuming airflow in case etc. is close to optimal) and also if it can fit on my mainboard, I'm worried it might be too large and can't fit cuz of the ram blocks. (there's blocks in all sockets)

To make quick work of this issue, I am not interested in watercooling at this point.

Also a sidequestion but this has to do with GFX card, what temps should I aim to keep it under for longevity? I read statements from nvidia that these cards are built to resist the heat. Should I worry if my GFX tops at about 84 Celsius after many hours of intense gaming?

 

[m0r7if3r]

Yea, your best bet is gonna be a d14 or a thermalright silver arrow.

The reason you have to increase voltage is because when the chips are tested, they're tested to a point such that the can run a certain speed at a certain voltage (or lower), verifying there aren't too many imperfections in the silicon. As the transistors switch faster, however, the imperfections that do exist can interfere with their switching. Voltage overcomes these imperfections (to a point).

 

[bigben6]

The ND14 is generally agreed to be top of the line air cooling, I do not personally own one, but if you search for it on the forumd you will see nothing but positive reviews and alot of reccomendations..


READ THIS: http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=515316

 

[m0r7if3r]

It's pretty hard in a system like a computer not to have pieces intertwine, you cannot adjust JUST one piece of the puzzle, and once you find that your stable at 3.8ghz, you may find a hold up somewhere else that prevents a better OC, it is one big puzzle, and it intertwines in a pretty complex manner.

I have to disagree with you here, you can, barring power restrictions and silicon imperfections adjust the multiplier of any chip so that it changes the speed of the CPU alone and doesn't affect the memory speed at all. The bclock feeds a lot of things, but it is possible to adjust memory dividers, cpu multipliers, and uncore ratios independently of one another. I will agree that some will affect performace in other areas in certain cases, but as a blanket statement, what you said doesn't hold water.

 

[bigben6]

I agree with your specific case, but again, my point is that things like heat will still be changed, certainly you can OC the proc and the proc alone, but to assume it will not change load temps, or heat out put is rather silly, I also assume people want to OC everything which may be a poor assumption on my part,

If your gonna OC the proc, why not the GPU, why not the mem?

Its like putting a Buggati Veyron on budget all season tires, or depending on the application, like putting Rcompounds on a stock prius....

If your going to do it, do it all well so everything works well together, but that is just my personal view point, and you may be right the OP may just need Proc speed not not care to touch NB, Mem, or Gpu...

Certainly you have tons more experience with this than I do, so to the OP, make sure you read everything completely.... thats also why i linked to someone else's more detailed post, its a good read, though long, worthwhile...

 

[Blackweb]

m0r7if3r :
Thanks for the very technical but very understandable answers I get the main point of voltage control now. The more powerful the signal the more it will overlap physical imperfections is what I got from your explanation.

Can you please clarify my question about the ram though? Am I right in assuming what I am (as long as I set them at 1333 - since it's their native speed - or lower, I'm in no risk of overheating/ruining my ram blocks?

Also a correction regarding my cpu temps, I tried priming for about 10 minutes (the large/middle test) and it took my cpu up to 84 after a few minutes where it seemed to stay most of the 10 minutes. Sensor test was much lower also and it barely hits 70-72+ under heavy gaming. Noticable difference at 3.2 though where it seemed to rise much higher (stopped it relatively fast) so clocked back to 3.15. (Since heavy gaming is the most exhausting thing I do on this computer it seems pretty solid to me no?)

But second question, when my CPU idles at 36 and MB at 36 I can assume airflow is pretty solid with the current setup and OC? (small as it is) I have read about some people with no OC, getting idle temps of around 45-50.

One last thing, how do I figure out if this cooler will fit on my mainboard in relations to ram? (case size should be sufficient I think, PSU is in the bottom leaving plenty of space up there).

 

[m0r7if3r]

m0r7if3r :
Thanks for the very technical but very understandable answers I get the main point of voltage control now. The more powerful the signal the more it will overlap physical imperfections is what I got from your explanation.

Can you please clarify my question about the ram though? Am I right in assuming what I am (as long as I set them at 1333 - since it's their native speed - or lower, I'm in no risk of overheating/ruining my ram blocks?

Also a correction regarding my cpu temps, I tried priming for about 10 minutes (the large/middle test) and it took my cpu up to 84 after a few minutes where it seemed to stay most of the 10 minutes. Sensor test was much lower also and it barely hits 70-72+ under heavy gaming. Noticable difference at 3.2 though where it seemed to rise much higher (stopped it relatively fast) so clocked back to 3.15. (Since heavy gaming is the most exhausting thing I do on this computer it seems pretty solid to me no?)

But second question, when my CPU idles at 36 and MB at 36 I can assume airflow is pretty solid with the current setup and OC? (small as it is) I have read about some people with no OC, getting idle temps of around 45-50.

One last thing, how do I figure out if this cooler will fit on my mainboard in relations to ram? (case size should be sufficient I think, PSU is in the bottom leaving plenty of space up there).

yea, no problem. I don't fully understand what's going on at a subarchtectural level to cause the additional voltage to make the chip able to operate faster, but I do know the why and how on a bit larger of a scale.

as for the ram, I've actually run ddr3 1333 ram up to ddr3 2000 at 9-10-9-27 with no issues. It's the volts you gotta be careful with, not the clocks.

i don't worry about prime temps till about 85 myself (can't hit it @4.2 on water...my daily needs some boost )...i7's throttle at 100c and cutoff around 107c, so don't worry till you start getting close to that.

idle temps don't really mean much, the resolution of the sensors is such that they're really not too accurate until you get closer to the max (where it matters).

noctua has great documentation on the fit of the cooler
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_gen&products_id=34&lng=en
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&products_id=34&lng=en#13
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_ram_gen&products_id=34&lng=en

 

[Blackweb]

yea, no problem. I don't fully understand what's going on at a subarchtectural level to cause the additional voltage to make the chip able to operate faster, but I do know the why and how on a bit larger of a scale.

as for the ram, I've actually run ddr3 1333 ram up to ddr3 2000 at 9-10-9-27 with no issues. It's the volts you gotta be careful with, not the clocks.

i don't worry about prime temps till about 85 myself (can't hit it @4.2 on water...my daily needs some boost )...i7's throttle at 100c and cutoff around 107c, so don't worry till you start getting close to that.

idle temps don't really mean much, the resolution of the sensors is such that they're really not too accurate until you get closer to the max (where it matters).

noctua has great documentation on the fit of the cooler
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_gen&products_id=34&lng=en
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=faqs&step=2&products_id=34&lng=en#13
http://noctua.at/main.php?show=compatibility_ram_gen&products_id=34&lng=en

What would happen if I set my ram to fx 15xx in BIOS and it needed more voltage to work, the computer would stop at post screen or? Would it be right to say I can attempt to set the next available higher setting (which is 14/15xx at this OC I think) and if the comp boots normally it worked? Is there no risk in trying this since insufficient voltage would just result in the mainboard not registering the ram or? Since all voltage settings are on auto, can I assume the comp will never go past what's safe?

 

[EarthDog]

I have to disagree with you here, you can, barring power restrictions and silicon imperfections adjust the multiplier of any chip so that it changes the speed of the CPU alone and doesn't affect the memory speed at all. The bclock feeds a lot of things, but it is possible to adjust memory dividers, cpu multipliers, and uncore ratios independently of one another. I will agree that some will affect performace in other areas in certain cases, but as a blanket statement, what you said doesn't hold water.

Only if you have a CPU with an unlocked multi though, which most arent and wont pay for (outside of Snadybridge of course).

 

[m0r7if3r]

Only if you have a CPU with an unlocked multi though, which most arent and wont pay for (outside of Snadybridge of course).

or amd :shrugh: and even with locked multi, it's more of a capped multi than anything...you can drop it down pretty low (i think it's 12 on the i7's)

as for the ram, run memtest86+ on it, if it passes you're good...if not...you're not, more volts or less speed.

 

[Blackweb]

or amd :shrugh: and even with locked multi, it's more of a capped multi than anything...you can drop it down pretty low (i think it's 12 on the i7's)

as for the ram, run memtest86+ on it, if it passes you're good...if not...you're not, more volts or less speed.

But since all voltage settings regarding ram are on auto, am I not in danger that the "auto control" will bring more volt to the ram automatically and thereby overheating them? I mean... my mainboard doesn't know my ram, how does it know what it's limit is?

 

[EarthDog]

Auto does tend to overvolt in favor of stability. As most/all guides say, set it manually.

 

[m0r7if3r]

just set your dram to what the kit is rated for, it's probably 1.5-1.65v

 

[Blackweb]

just set your dram to what the kit is rated for, it's probably 1.5-1.65v

I read about my ram, it says the following from Corsair:

The XMS series TR3X6G1333C9 is a 12288 MByte kit of DDR3 SDRAM DIMMs built using Corsair's high performance heat sink.

This part delivers outstanding performance in the latest generation of X58 DDR3-based motherboards.

It has been tested extensively in popular X58 motherboards to ensure compatibility and performance at its rated speed.

This memory has been verified to operate at 1333MHz at latencies of 9-9-9-24 at 1.50V VDIMM.

Do you think this has any impact on OC'ing them abit? Isn't XMS type rams at a lower speed who has been verified and tested at something higher? In this case 1333mhz?

 

[EarthDog]

With 12GB you will likely need to add a bit of Vtt since it adds stress on the IMC of the CPU.