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Which i7 motherboards can support 21x multi LOCK?

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Still, the poster above you Evilsizer says that unlike the 20 multi, if you go with 21 it will still be reduced somewhat which is not the point, the point is will it cause instability?...

So it's not about the 21 multi as much as it is about being able to lock it in just like the 20 multi is locked in, without it going down, even slightly.

I think you're kind of missing my point. It can be used as a true 21x multi. I said mine only started to throttle slightly under high heat; below a certain temperature, it will run a solid 21x.

Though I don't have experience with any other X58 boards, I have heard from several people on the XS forums that you can adjust or turn off all of the throttling features from the BIOS on some other boards. This means the 21x multi will always stay locked on, without dipping down.

Though the P6T series does not officially support this feature, you can use a modded BIOS that disables the turbo throttling, but only with the Deluxe. Since you already have a Deluxe V1, you can simply flash to BIOS 0006. This BIOS completely disables the TDP throttling when you set the Ai Overclock Tuner to manual in the BIOS.

You can still use the modded V1 BIOS with a Deluxe V2, but doing so requires first crossflashing to a V1 BIOS.

And if you want to check and see if you are suffering from any throttling while using the 21x multi, download and run i7 Turbo while stability testing.

It is more than possible to run the 21x multi without hiccup. It's possible to avoid the throttling altogether with a low Vcore chip and excellent cooling (like when I mentioned that this would be possible for me if I had watercooling, since my throttling is heat-related and my chip does not approach the 1.4 Vcore), or if you are stuck with a P6T Deluxe, you can flash to the modded BIOS.
 
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i havent ever had a problem not having 21x all the time.

i run an Asus rampage Gene, when i'm in bios, i just disable turbo and manually set the multi to 21x.
 
That clears things up, thanks.

So unofficial modded BIOS is needed for the Asus and we're not clear what the status is for BIOSes of other boards. I suppose modded BIOSes would be popping up for other boards too...
 
It does not throttle under stress at 4.2, which is higher than most people use. Look at the minimum and maximum multiplier on each core.

21xx.jpg


It does start to lose the 21x at 4.3 for me, but not all the way back to 20x. It goes from 20.6-21. Unless the OP wants really high OC's, then throttling would not be an issue. There are other boards out there that run 21x without this bug,
 
That very well may be, but by definition, if you are running an official Asus BIOS, your system can go off the full 21 multi if it gets stressed enough. Only a modded BIOS gives you full & permanent 21, no matter how rarely super stressed it gets.
 
I should also quickly clarify that the TDP/Turbo throttling I am speaking of with the P6T is a different type of throttling than the C1E and CPU TM Function.
 
It depends how far you want to push it if you need the modded BIOS. I personally am happy with 4.2 and no throttling. I believe that there will be an official BIOS from Asus for this, but only for Deluxe boards. I guess my almost 300.00 isn't enough money for them to support.
 
Well I can run 4.3ghz stable @ 1.38v (might be able to lower that 1 more notch to about 1.37v, havent tried yet) and I can run 1.21v @ 4ghz (215 and 200 bclk respectively). I was hoping for 4.5ghz daily although Im not really sure why.

This board craps above 215 blck, about the biggest downside to it. But if I do upgrade, Id like to get a board that gives me that flexibility to use a 21x multi.
 
The Asus P6T series is one of the few boards that has followed the original Intel design spec and will throttle the turbo from 21X to 20X when you reach either the TDP/TDC power/current limit or your CPU starts running too hot which is usually around 80C to 85C. When this first starts to happen, the multiplier will cycle rapidly between 21X and 20X hundreds of times a second. The multi will drop, power consumption and temps decrease and then the multi is allowed to go back up to 21X until this threshold is reached again. When things get more severe, the multiplier will be stuck at 20X max but you have to have a pretty significant overclock going with lots of core voltage before this will start to happen.

Most of the Gigabyte boards didn't bother enforcing this recommendation from Intel and some of the higher end Asus boards give you an option in the bios to enable or disable turbo throttling.

Asus has released a few special bios versions to disable turbo throttling if you choose to. Bios 0006 for the Asus P6T Deluxe v1 works great. No turbo throttling whatsoever no matter how hard you push it. This bios can also be cross flashed to the P6T Deluxe v2 boards with the same results. Intel has also released a similar bios for the P6T6 WS Revolution and will likely release more if users need this feature. To be honest, it's only a very tiny percentage of users that are running hard enough to actually need this feature.

The i7 Turbo program reads two high performance timers within the CPU and is the Intel recommended method to determine the multiplier. This method also works on Core 2 based CPUs. There are two timers for each thread and all you have to do is compare them once per second. If the two timers are running at the same speed then there will be no turbo boost and your CPU will be using its default multiplier which is 20 for a Core i7 920. If the core timer is running at 1,050,000 cycles per second and the reference timer is running at 1,000,000 cycles per second then the ratio is 1.05 : 1. When you multiply 1.05 times your default ratio (20) you get a total of 21.0 which shows that your turbo is fully engaged with a +1 turbo boost.

This method is very precise and it makes for a very light weight algorithm. No need to sample the CPU multiplier hundreds of times a second. All software needs to do is sample these timers once per second and then it is dead simple to compute the average multiplier for that thread during the previous 1 second interval.

I just updated i7 Turbo this evening to correctly support the new socket 1156 CPUs which have a minimum multiplier of 9.0. Download it here if you want to check it out.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip

Edit: The Intel DX58SO is one of the few boards that can cycle the multi between 21X and 22X on an i7 920 when running a single threaded app. You only get up to a 22X multi when 1 core is active. On some boards, you can disable 3 cores in the bios which isn't very practical but if you enable C-States or C3/C6 in the bios, then when a core is not busy it can automatically enter the C3/C6 sleep state and become inactive. You can use i7 Turbo to check for this. If the multiplier on a thread is between 21 and 22 when running a single threaded app, then that's likely what's going on. Most boards dump this feature as soon as you adjust the BCLK by 1 MHz so it isn't very practical for enthusiasts. I've heard the Intel board doesn't have this limitation.

rge over on XtremeSystems was testing this out and when running a single threaded SuperPI bench, he was definitely getting more than the standard +1 Turbo boost but any BCLK overclocking killed this feature.

v8245allcoresc6enable.jpg


He locked SuperPI to the first thread and you can see that it had the highest average multiplier. The default multiplier on an i7 950 is 23.0.
 
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Well with my Intel board, I havent seen the 21x/22x multi. I enabled it and it would never kick in when stressed. I tried running 2 threaded Prime95 with nothing. Tried playing a single threaded game that maxed the CPU and nothing, but I might be wrong.
 
I guess since I believe 1.35v is the Intel recommended limit and that is when my throttling starts, that is what is causing mine? My load temps are only about 74 @ 4.3 on the hottest core.
 
doz: It can only use the 22X multi if you have C-States and C3/C6 enabled in the bios and then it will only step up to 22X when running a single thread. If you're curious, try using the default BCLK and see if it works. Run a SuperPI bench and have a look at i7 Turbo while the bench is running. If threads can enter C3/C6, their average multiplier will drop down to about 14 like in the above picture. The closer they get to 12, the bigger percentage of time they are in C3/C6.

If all threads are reporting a similar multiplier then they are not entering this sleep state so the one core doing the work won't be able to access the 22X multiplier. You need 3 cores asleep to get this extra turbo boost to cycle on and off.

Daddyjaxx: I don't know the official Intel formula that triggers turbo throttling but it's a combination of current, power and temperature. Any one of these 3 items going out of spec can cause the turbo feature to kick out on the Asus P6T boards. 1.35 volts might be the magic number for your CPU but it might be slightly higher or lower for a different 920. CPU load also effects this since a bigger load will increase the current and power consumption. You can have a steady multi of 21 while running Prime but if you switch to LinX / Linpack, that might increase the load and trigger turbo throttling.

Just to be clear on one point, it is Asus that has modded the bios for the P6T Deluxe v1. It's not some guy on a forum that came up with a good idea and hacked one of their bios versions. Asus saw the demand for a bios that would eliminate turbo throttling for the extreme users so they stepped up and found a way to make it happen. The 0006 bios also has some additional features for Xeon processors. The Asus rep, Juan Jose Guerrrero, sends them my way for testing and distribution. The results have been excellent so far. If you have a v1 board you can install this one directly.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?00qfon2wlkd

If you have an Asus P6T Deluxe v2 then you can cross flash the above bios to your board using this method:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3743308&postcount=521
 
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doz - Your board can lock the multi at 21x. The method as the same as the one used by the hacked Asus BIOS but it's part of the official Intel BIOS. See my thread at Xtreme: http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/showthread.php?t=233942

To get 21x you need to enable to following:
- "Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology"
- "Intel Turbo Boost Technology"
- "CPU VR Current Limit Override"

The key setting is the last one. You can also enable 22x for single threaded applications (although this will cause extra stability headaches at high BCLK's) by enabling this option:
- "C state"

The Intel board is the only one that can get to 22x when overclocking. Good luck!
 
OOOh, I will give it a go, thanks APH!

**EDIT**

Beautiful! Its so simple its stupid almost lol. First thing I usually do is disable EIST on a board. Doh! Shouldnt have this time lol. Thanks a bunch :) So far! Going to try and lower the voltage.

4.2.jpg
 
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Glad to help. Even without lowering voltages that's a great result. What batch # is that and what stress testing did you run?
 
I run LINX first, then I run a longer Prime95 session.

I lowered the voltage to 1.25v and lowered the QPI by 3 notches (the 21x multi seems to be alot more tolerant than the 20x on the QPI end for some reason). My temps lowered 6c by lowering the QPIv!!!

@ 1.25v I ran LINX fully loaded on the ram and P95. Temps hit 69c. Daily run temps are at 53c now that my QPI is lowered. Appreciate the help on that. Had no idea the capability. Im going to shoot for 4.5ghz, as my board maxes out at 215 (although I might make 216-218, havent tried yet, but it wont take 220 at all) but with the 21x multi, that will get me to 4.5.
 
And you ran a test before lowering QPI voltage but after lowering Vcore? I've run my QPI voltage up and down the whole range and never noticed a single degree of temp difference.
 
I had my CPU at 1.25v stable. QPI was 1.3 in the bios. Ive since lowered it to 1.225 in the bios. Again QPI will affect the stability differently on different boards. I started a thread in the CPU section if youd like to comment. Thats exactlyt he reason I started it, was to gather some data and see what other people were seeing. Some say QPI has an affect on OC's and temps, some say 1 or the other, others say neither.
 
been lurking here for a while(*cough* since i built my P4 2.4c and OC'd to 3.76ghz) and finally registered to show my results.

Gigabyte UD4d here, and it does NOT lock at 21x, only when the load is <100%, even 99.99% is 21x.

24/7 stable
48hrs Linpack (IBT-1000 passes 5300mb)
48hrs Prime95 SMALL
48hrs Prime95 LARGE
12hrs Linpack+Furmark
(no reboot in between, system uptime=8days)
and 12hrs Memtest (forgot how many passes)

with that said, i'm about 95% sure its stable with my current settings (hey, it could always crash, i have had 2 programs crash, but no memory related, and 1 is known buggy code). 1.25vcore, 1.26vQPI, 1.5v ram. also sure i'm at a reasonable temperature range. CPU=48-51c, Cores=55-61c, gets up to ~72c with the case fans off, and the room getting VERY warm from folding+2 19" CRT's. (edit: i have also tried with the C1, and the other C states enabled and disabled in different combination, and also with thermal monitoring and any other power saving or safety feature off with the same average 20.75x multiplier results)


Linux Virtual Box Folding+GPU client:
th_TurboThrottle.png (you can see when i opened up my window, and those few degrees didn't change what AgentGOD's turbo program was reading)

edit:
@doz, of course raising the voltage of something on the chip will effect temps, although i have noticed not by much with QPI. for myself its only noticeable going from 1.24v to 1.35v, but only a couple degrees on the cores at most. about the same as if i bump my ram from 1.5 to 1.66v. i have also noticed that below a bclk of 190 anything over 1.32v on the QPI will cause a 124 blue screen just like going below 1.2v.
 
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