Which would help more?

[Pierre3400]

I have been messing around with my 4770K rig, and for once gotten down to the finer points of my loop.

The setup is made to silent, but i am starting to dear, there is not enough rad for the long run.

Setup is: (Is all on order of how it is connected)

D5 Pump/res
EK 240mm, 50mm thick (Push/pull GT AP15's)
EK CPU block
Magicool 360mm, 30mm thick (Pull GT AP15's)
EK Universal GPU
EK Universal GPU
back to pump.

After many hours of use, i can leave it to idle (30mins), and the water temp inside the loop will fall to around 37degrees. During gaming it will get into the high 40's (Intake air during all this testing: 23/25degrees)

When gaming for many hours, i see my CPU hit around 80degrees on my CPU, and 60/65 on my GPU's maybe up to 70 in the second card.

This is after my mind, acceptable, and i can live with it, but i would like to bring down temps, without setting up the speed on the fans.

I will admit i run very low speeds, 300rpm when temps on CPU are below 45, and then they speed up from there, being 100% flat out if the CPU hits 85 degrees.

I want to bring down the temps on the water in my loop, I am confident that more rad surface could help this issue, but i am not sure what would be my best option?

The 240mm sits in front, and the 360 sits at the top. I have 1x GT AP15, as a rear exhaust fan.

Picture for better idea:


The options that I have come up with fro now.

I have (with a shoehorn) the space to replace the 240mm EK with Alphacool NexXxoS Monsta 240, which is 80mm thick, and still retain my push/pull.

OR

I could get a 120mm rad, slim version, and mount its on the outside of the case, (where i have the exhaust fan mounted atm) and then bring the fan inside, to push.

I am pretty sure that going for the 80mm thick rad, which would 30mm more than i have now, would equal 2x30mm.

What do the pros have to say about this?

 

[JeremyCT]

So ... you have an idle dT of around 10-12 deg C and a gaming load dT of around 25 deg C?? Whoa.

My first question is, which direction are the fans blowing? If the top rad fans are blowing out, I'd reverse them so they're blowing into the case. This enables them to use ambient air instead of preheated case air. Just use the rear case fan for exhaust. You want to avoid blowing pre-heated air across the rads if it can be avoided.

Your quoting water temperatures, do you have some to monitor this? I'd set your fan profile based on water temp instead of component temps if that's possible. It's more reliable in my experience.

As for your options for increasing raddage, the best option to my mind would be upgrading the front mounted rad.

 

[Pierre3400]

Your quoting water temperatures, do you have some to monitor this? I'd set your fan profile based on water temp instead of component temps if that's possible. It's more reliable in my experience.

As for your options for increasing raddage, the best option to my mind would be upgrading the front mounted rad.

All temps are read with Open Hwardward Monitor / AquaComputers software for my Aquaero LT5.

I have a water temp hooked up to that, and it measures before going into the pump.

I can see you idea about flipping the fans on top.

 

[EarthDog]

Why are your water temps so warm? Now, I know this is a different loop and all, but, I have never seen my water over 32C after hours of gaming. Something isn't right there for sure.

Depending on how warm it is inside the case compared to ambient will give you a ballpark idea of the temp drop. You already have one rad with ambient air... just not sure how much that other will affect it. Try it and report back, but you appear to be under radded for your goals.

 

[Pierre3400]

Why are your water temps so warm? Now, I know this is a different loop and all, but, I have never seen my water over 32C after hours of gaming. Something isn't right there for sure.

Depending on how warm it is inside the case compared to ambient will give you a ballpark idea of the temp drop. You already have one rad with ambient air... just not sure how much that other will affect it. Try it and report back, but you appear to be under radded for your goals.

Right now, i am just useing the pc, for this and watching a stream. The water temp is at 33degrees.

The 7970's have always been hot runners for me, for idle the top card is sitting at 46 degrees.

I am not even in doubt, that i need more rad for what i want to do, but the question is how i do it best... Maybe I need to look at both my opens?

 

[EarthDog]

Wow... toasty. I am a couple of C over ambient at idle...

Top or bottom card temps really shouldn't matter much at all. They are not cooled by air and temps in a properly radded and flowing loop will only vary 1-2C at any point in the loop at most. 2 360 rads would be helpful. However you want to do that, is up to you though, but I see a new case in your future to try and cool that over 550W load reasonably quiet.

 

[Pierre3400]

Wow... toasty. I am a couple of C over ambient at idle...

Top or bottom card temps really shouldn't matter much at all. They are not cooled by air and temps in a properly radded and flowing loop will only vary 1-2C at any point in the loop at most. 2 360 rads would be helpful. However you want to do that, is up to you though, but I see a new case in your future to try and cool that over 550W load reasonably quiet.

750D has been on my mind, but i dont like enough.

I am looking into the 80mm alphacool monsta, and then maybe that 120mm too, maybe a third option, but its getting tight inside the 600t.

That said, the power end of the gpus are putting out a lot of heat! Of course in idle, its mainly the top card, since the other card turns off.

 

[JeremyCT]

Here's a question. To rule out some other problem in the loop, what are your idle/load temps like with the fans at full tilt?

 

[marjamar]

I can't see where you are exhausting your rads. If it isn't clearly open and unobstructed, there is a problem to fix.

Sounds like you have both rads and the single case fan all exhausting out of the case. Unless there is large open passages in that case for inlet air to enter unobstructed, that is a problem to fix.

The way you have your loop plumbed, you are heating up your reservoir with the warmed water coming out of the video cards. Since the reservoir has no way to cool itself or the water in it, it becomes a heating element for the inside of your case. That's a problem to fix.

Buy a new case first. Get one that is design properly to allow cooler ambient air in from the bottom or low points on the side with fans drawing air in the case. Mount all of the rads high in the case and discharge them out of the case. Keep sufficient velocity to air movement within the case to keep minimal air temps elevation above ambient inlet air temps. Try not to create "dead spots" where air isn't moving if at all possible. Have a common flow pattern to the air in the case from bottom to top and out. Heat rises, don't fight it, use it.

Just a few things I could tell (or not) by your picture and descriptions.

Good luck.

-Rodger

 

[Pierre3400]

Here's a question. To rule out some other problem in the loop, what are your idle/load temps like with the fans at full tilt?

At idle with full speed on all fans, im getting around 25degrees on the watertemp, and GPU drops to around 37degrees, cant remember the CPU temp right now.

I can't see where you are exhausting your rads. If it isn't clearly open and unobstructed, there is a problem to fix.

Sounds like you have both rads and the single case fan all exhausting out of the case. Unless there is large open passages in that case for inlet air to enter unobstructed, that is a problem to fix.

The way you have your loop plumbed, you are heating up your reservoir with the warmed water coming out of the video cards. Since the reservoir has no way to cool itself or the water in it, it becomes a heating element for the inside of your case. That's a problem to fix.

Buy a new case first. Get one that is design properly to allow cooler ambient air in from the bottom or low points on the side with fans drawing air in the case. Mount all of the rads high in the case and discharge them out of the case. Keep sufficient velocity to air movement within the case to keep minimal air temps elevation above ambient inlet air temps. Try not to create "dead spots" where air isn't moving if at all possible. Have a common flow pattern to the air in the case from bottom to top and out. Heat rises, don't fight it, use it.

Just a few things I could tell (or not) by your picture and descriptions.

Good luck.

-Rodger

I have not a clue what you mean.

At the top of the case sits a 360mm rad with 3x 120mm fans taking air out of the case. But as others have said, the air going threw that rad would already be warm from the hot components inside the case.

There is a total of 4x120mm fans taking air out of the case, 3 in top, and 1 in the rear.

The res would get very hot in an case, I dont see myself ever cooling the water before getting to the res, only after. As i said, the GPU power section, that sits mm from the res is beyond warn even at idle speeds.

Getting a new case is very easy for you to say, I am well aware that you have no clue how anal i can be at times, and when it comes to a case, believe it or not, but i have been looking for a while now. But i am yes to see anyone produce a case that suits all my needs with out being a huge monster.

The 900D has too much wasted space! The 750D doesnt have the space i need/want plus the prefit rad features dont suit me.

The LC V8 has even more wasted space, but is a very cool case, i just feel it could be smaller and still fit the same things, i could keep going.

Its a nightmare finding a better case, and i have modded so much on this 600T over the past year, i want to use it for at least a bit, but maybe I need to face the facts.

I have a stripped down 800D that i wanted to do as a project, but since i got a cheap used one, that had seen better days, i kind of just gave up on it. For now at least.

 

[EarthDog]

Bottom line is, you have issues. Possibly more than one. Those temps of your water are way too warm with your original fan speed (what was it, off? Lol!). With the fans cranked you are seeing a dramatic drop. So tbat tells me you need more rad or raise your fan speeds or both. If youant quiet, you need a lot more rad.

 

[Pierre3400]

Bottom line is, you have issues. Possibly more than one. Those temps of your water are way too warm with your original fan speed (what was it, off? Lol!). With the fans cranked you are seeing a dramatic drop. So tbat tells me you need more rad or raise your fan speeds or both. If youant quiet, you need a lot more rad.

Yes sir.

I am considering now, going from a 240mm to a 360mm in front, I just need to find out what kind of space that leaves me for HDD/SSD's and my fan controller.

I want quiet. For sure.

 

[Pierre3400]

Ok guys,

So i have come to a conclusion on this.

I have setup the speeds a bit on the fans, and i will be happy with a warm system for now.

That said, i am pulling out my scrapped 800D project (yeah im the type of guy with an 800D in his basement) and starting over with it!

That said, i been trying to figure the most ridiculous setup i can for this, and it seems i will need to stack rads.

Now as for stacking thats not a huge problem as far as the results, my findings appear to show a highly increased effect at low RPM speeds?

Anyone have any good facts on stacking?

 

[Supertrucker]

if you mean sandwiching two rads together dont bother, it doesnt work well with low fan speed.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/06/08/hesmelaughs-radiator-sandwich-testing/


With an 800d and a willingness to mod you should be able to put a 120.4 in the roof, a 120.1 in the back, and a 120.2 or 140.2 in the lower compartment.

 

[Pierre3400]

if you mean sandwiching two rads together dont bother, it doesnt work well with low fan speed.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/06/08/hesmelaughs-radiator-sandwich-testing/

With an 800d and a willingness to mod you should be able to put a 120.4 in the roof, a 120.1 in the back, and a 120.2 or 140.2 in the lower compartment.

Why didnt he test Fan-Rad-Fan-Rad-Fan??

I am willing to cut this case to bits, and that is my plan now.

I am planning 2x 480's, one 85mm thick and and one 60mm thick with GT AP-15 in push/pull. (But i am still working on how the heck i am going to fit it.)

That should solve my problem!

Sketch of idea! In theory, it should just fit. But I will be making changes to this first idea over the next couple of weeks.

 

[marjamar]

That is the same case I am using now. I am currently stable at 5.17GHz @ 1.584 vcore with water temps at 25.2c in the loop, ambient temps 17.4c, at idle water temps are 23.3. My socket is 62c and cores 53c. Been running prime95 for about 45min currently and don't believe there should be any problem for an extended run.

This is a new FX-8350 I've just installed and it sooooo much better then my FX-8150, it hard to believe they are even related. Total system watts are hovering around 600, whereas my FX-8150 right now would be at 850 watts or more. This is because it is simply a super-hot cpu and would be gulping vcore at 1.62 to even come close to holding this clock.

Had to brag a bit.

But, here is the point of this brag. I am only using 1 black ice 360 and 1 black ice 120 rad. They are both 50mm thick and are cooled using NB Multifans 120's in push/pull configuration. No doubt I am very lucky to have gotten a very good CPU this time, but I am also setup properly with case cooling and proper loop configuration. I don't know if many people use the Black Ice rads, but they are different in their design then others. Instead of splitting the waterflow up/down for side to side, the split it up/down back to front. What this means is the water coming into the rad travels up the entire width of the rad on the back half, then comes down the entire with of the rad on the front half -- If plumbed correctly that is. They do not specify inlet/outlet ports, but I was careful to make sure the hotter water coming into the rads go up the rearward side of the rad first so that added water temps are exhausted out of the rads/case first. Then as it moves down the front part of the rads, it is cooler then the inlet water and allows for better cooling though the rads. I should draw a picture to help explain this I guess.

Anyways in everything you do, you need to consider the most efficient method of disposing of heat. Heat is your enemy and you need to keep it moving away and out of the case as expediently as possible, without it compromising any more places or parts then absolutely necessary. Give thought to this when you install your fan system and design your loop. Heat rises, put it to good use and make it work for you, not against you.

-Rodger