Will I regret replacing my Phenom 965 @4.5ghz with a FX8530?

[OCMusicJunkie]

Hey all- just joined the forum and apologize in advance for immediately posting a variant of what must be a common question, but I am about to order the CPU tonight or in the morning and would love some feedback first.

I've been running my X4 965 overclocked to 4.5ghz for a couple of months now, since upgrading to a M5A99FX Pro R2.0 mobo. It's not my primary system- it's actually intended for tinkering and benchmarking. I have an identical system tuned to 4.3ghz for my regular computing, since I enjoy the silence of only a couple of case fans instead of the eight that run inside the other.

The decision to jump from the 965 to a FX8350 seems easy, but I keep seeing different benchmarks that make me question whether or not it would really be an improvement from the massive OC on the Phenom. for example, I think that I actually have a higher 1m and 32m SuperPi on HWBot with the 965 than I've found anyone post using only air cooling on their 8350. I know it's a newer chip, so perhaps that is only a matter of not having enough people running it yet.

Bottom line- in my spot, would you keep playing with the 965 and wait for the next batch of AM3+ chips, or dive in on the 8350 pickup right now?

 

[RGone]

You write >> for example, I think that I actually have a higher 1m and 32m SuperPi on HWBot with the 965 than I've found anyone post using only air cooling on their 8350

An answer >> You are just about dead-on with that assessment.

You write >> perhaps that is only a matter of not having enough people running it yet.

An answer >> nope has nothing to do with number of people. HWBot junkies would have already slammed the 965BE scores if they could have on air.

You write >> actually intended for tinkering and benchmarking.

An answer >> I don't guess you are throwing your 965 away and could pull an FX processor out and go bck to the 965?

You likely have NO idea how HoT that FX-8350 is going to run. Nor how power hungry it is an can make poorly designed VRM circuits on a mobo drive a user nuts .Because of this VRM thing and power supply to cpu, I am just about sure only maybe the top 4 most expensive boards can handle an FX-8350 if you want to PUSH it. Air won't push it either. Really good water is required.

I might suggest the cheaper FX-6300 that should but not assured get a few more Mhz cpu speed and do it a little cooler would be my "play-around" choice for looking into the FX processor line-up or just get the FX-8320 and spend less if you just have to have the 8 cores.

There are a number of us in here that have had the old 8 cores and the newer 8 cores but we have plenty skills and good crap to run with. Mediocre stuff really need not apply to play bench and fool around. You will have found a giant sink hole to put money in trying for cool and a good enough mobo.

I opened the posting and there will be others come, I feel sure. Read all of us between the lines and make your choice. Unless of course your definition of play is I get it and work on until I get'r done.
RGone...

EDIT:
Crap it never really dawned on me until after I closed the post. Take a look at this thread. I can assure you that there is "heavy-duty" cooling involved and the motherboard is about the best you can buy or at least in the top four.

Testing does FX-83xx seem to flat line after 4.3GHz
END EDIT.

 

[OCMusicJunkie]

I really appreciate the detailed response- gives me a lot to think about. I had never worried much about the cooling or power consumption, but I was basing that only on a single anandtech article that showed it drawing around 195w when overclocked- a little less than the 965 is estimated to consume on a typical overclock. If the real life experiences have been that it's truly harder to cool than the other 125w AMD chips, then I may have to really reassess. I'd be open to the idea of moving from my board to a Crosshair V Formula Z if it would really prove beneficial- I haven't dipped into those waters yet because I essentially established that the 965 wasn't seeing any pattern of higher frequencies reported on that mobo than on my M5A99FX. Water cooling is something I have no experience in whatsoever though- at that point I might create less work by simply going over to Intel for the first time.

I had intended to upgrade CPU first and GPU next, but perhaps I need to consider just pooling resources for a top-tier card and hold off on the FX series for right now...

 

[Ajay57]

Good idea OP i would listen to RGone and the other AMD guy's on here they have done a huge amount of testing that i have read! They have seen VRM Sections and Mosfets Blow up not a pretty site on a Mobo. If you are considering a up grade of your motherboard then i would ask you to look at this guide! What you are looking for are 8+2 VRM'S or Above on the motherboards in the AM3+ LIST. As you will see the choice of boards is some what limited to the CVF-Z, Sabertooth, Fatality, Gigabyte, Asrock all in the 990FX Series. AJ.

1, http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboards-vrm-info-database#post_12462681

Please note this intended to be a rough guide the AMD Members can tell you more!

 

[Johan45]

I have the same board OCMusicJunkie.
But I have a less than stellar 8350 as Rgone can attest to. I have narrowed it down to 1 module that WILL NOT run above 4.65 ish. I started experimenting with different cores because of a bug in a game I was trying to play. I ran module 1+2 up to 5G no problem and with a little mor Vcore added module 4. I had noticed a pattern already and isolated module 3 and it maxed out at almost 4.7 didn't matter what I did to it no stability.
Anyway I wouldn't say it was the board holding me back but I can't tell you how far it would go with all 8 cores running.
One thing I can say is if you do any vdeo or bluray work this thing is a beast at 4.5

 

[caddi daddi]

I have to agree with Rgone, the 6300 if you will not be getting big water cooling and a top line board.
I have the 6300 and it's a wonderfull cpu with out really needing the big water cooling and very top boards.

keep the 965, or better yet sell it to me to help pay for the new processor.

 

[Xenohitsu]

what applications run better on four physical cores like a Phenom II 965 compared to a three physical core, with 2 logical cores per core on the FX 6300?

 

[OCMusicJunkie]

I have the same board OCMusicJunkie.
Anyway I wouldn't say it was the board holding me back but I can't tell you how far it would go with all 8 cores running.
One thing I can say is if you do any vdeo or bluray work this thing is a beast at 4.5

Johan, good to hear the experience had by someone else running the same board. IMO, my perception of the board was that it nearly was at the top-tier... getting the quick impression that isn't the consensus thought. The 6+2 digital VRM has stacked favorably so far with what I've seen from 8+2 boards like the 990FXA-UD5. But, I would imagine the extra two phases on the CHVFZ's 8+2 Digi VRM would just be that much better. FYI, this rig actually does some video encoding and such, just to take the load off my HTPC before transferring the files.

I think I have a lot of reading here to do before making a purchase. I don't want to jump right into the 6300, since the idea of technically losing a physical core and reducing the single-threaded performance from my 965 just seems questionable. Maybe I need to take a broader view and consider the entire mobo/cooling/gpu profile be reassessed before I can properly settle on a processor.

 

[Johan45]

Same here I'm not sure if it's the board holing me back or the CPU. I was running my 965 on this board then went to the FX about a month ago. I'm still fiddling with it. I do like the whole setup. The 8350 was a nice upgrade and tons o'fun messing with.
I might try and slip a Sabretooth on sale past the old lady and settle this once and for all.

 

[OCMusicJunkie]

The Sabertooth has the same VRM design as the Crosshair V Formula Z, doesn't it? I've been thinking about that as well. I would have probably already gone there, but as it stands now, I'll already have an extra AM3+ board sitting unused once I finish streamlining my HTPC rig with an FM2 board and A10-5800k from its clumsy M5A88-M/X3 455/HD6670 layout. I suppose that the upside is that if I do grab the FX8350 and blow up a capacitor on the motherboard, I would have a serviceable replacement for the short-term.

 

[Johan45]

I like the way you think OCMusicJunkie Ya it looks like a good solid board. You could always use the 965 for the HTPC

 

[Mandrake4565]

OCMusicJunkie, welcome to the forums. I basically the same system as you previously, 955be on an M5A99X EVO @4.0 24/7 4.3 2hr prime stable. I definitely had some trepidation towards buying a piledriver after reading the experiences of people with bulldozers. I can say I am quite pleased with my purchase. In some benches as the others above have said the Phenom II is faster. Though in my everyday use I have found FX-8350 to be much quicker. Again as said above, it is a power monger and runs hot. If you plan on overclocking you really need BIG cooling. The motherboard you have you will probably be able to overclock on, but I don't think you'll get really good or stable clocks on it. I was having a heck of a time trying to OC on my EVO board. Prime would fail pretty much at any clock over 4.4. I have been able to get it stable at higher clocks on my CHV board.

 

[OCMusicJunkie]

@ Johan- thanks.... I figure if you are able to risk crashing and burning, half the time you come out ahead, and the other half you have a pretty cool story if the flames are big enough. I think the 965 inside the HTPC would be going in the wrong direction though... the shelf situation in the entertainment room is such that the logical spot for the tower is only about 3' away from where I watch the television. I'm dumping the CPU+GPU combo because just the fan noise now is too much. Trying to cool a 965 inside a shoebox case with one 92mm fan would be interesting!

@MDrake- the Bulldozer is still in my good graces, because it kept my 965 in the top-tier of AMD processors for nearly an entire extra year beyond what it should have. I think that the most concerning thing for me is just how many more variables there seems to be with tuning the Piledriver as opposed to the Deneb. There are at least four additional CPU settings and obviously a whole new behavior pattern to learn how to read- I'm sure you know what it's like after working with a chip for a little while, you start to get an intuitive sense of what is unstable just by how/when it fails.

So what's the verdict?

I ended up grabbing a FX8350 on impulse last night and had it arrive this morning. I decided that for now it's going inside my larger case on one of my two M5A99FX Pro R2.0 boards, but that I'm going to keep my eyes open for the first sale on a Crosshair V Formula Z or Sabertooth R2.0 that looks good. I have enough spare parts to make another rig with the displaced FX Pro and 965 at that point, all I'd need to do is buy a case. I have siblings who I could pass off one of these builds to if I don't have a use for them- to a non-overclocker, all of these configurations would seem like performance monsters.

So far I'm quite pleasantly surprised with the FX8350, both in performance and heat. Without knowing up from down, I immediately dialed in a 4.4ghz clock with 4.6ghz turbo clock speed in BIOS using super safe voltages and played around for a few minutes. SuperPi was obviously a bit slower than the 965 ever was. Trying to think of the first multi-threaded CPU bench I could, I ran the CPU section of Passmark's PT8, and scored just a shade over 10,900. That's compared to the ~5900 that I topped out at with the Phenom, which actually is the top score for any quad-core Phenom in their database. I'll get into the blended component/full system tests tonight and tomorrow, but so far there is obviously some real upside in certain areas. Can't wait to find the ceiling once I do some reading and have a clear idea how to properly dial in the voltages and settings.

PS- I don't claim to understand how I get such good cooling results from air, but it wasn't looking like an issue at all so far- right on par with the Phenom. Good chance that will change as I push it, but at least with a reasonable OC that was stable for the 15 minutes of OCCT I took time for, it was staying in the high 40's.....

 

[synthetic_fenix]

OCMusicJunkie, I did the exact same move you did a couple weeks ago, I couldn't pass up a deal I got on the FX-8350, and I had just a couple weeks before buying that, upgraded my system to be DDR3 capable with my old 965. Hopefully you like the move, from a benchmarking standpoint the 8350 benches higher than the 965 at least with with cinebench, and from a multitasking standpoint my system feels faster than it did with the 965.

 

[Johan45]

Just curious OC what volts r u running for that OC. I need almost 1.4 to run stable at 4.5G.

 

[OCMusicJunkie]

Johan,

I actually kept it set to "auto", with LLC turned off. I can't recall the exact number, but it was definitely in the 1.3xxx voltsages. I would love to be more specific, but at the moment I have the system disassembled and sprawled out across my desk.

I can hardly believe it, but I just had a bunch of random crashes and finally realized that for the second time in two months, I had one of my Corsair Vengeance modules bite the dust while running normal clock, timing and voltage settings. This was actually the replacement from Corsair for one that died under warranty. I can safely say it wasn't related to the processor, because the last one happened with the 965 while not even running under load. Blah. I'm going back to Crucial, I don't care if they don't spec as well on paper!

 

[Mandrake4565]

I'm going back to Crucial, I don't care if they don't spec as well on paper!

Just an FYi OC <--- your name is too long, been running GSkill Ripjaw X 1600ddr3 for 3 years now on my 955be and this one slightly OC'ed without issue. They sit a little lower then the Vengeance and I believe you can get them in Blue to match the Mobo.

 

[ssjwizard]

Mushkin RAM overclocks really well also. You can get a 2x4Gb kit 2133 with Hynx IC on them for around $45-55 depending on sales and which timings you shoot for. I have one kit 1600 8-9-8 1.6v that will do 2100 9-10-9 1.65v, an 1866 9-9-9 1.6v that will do 2100 9-10-9 1.65v, and a 2133 10-11-10 1.5v that will do 2100 9-10-9 1.6v. I have a set of mushkin DDR 400 sticks that I ran OC to ~ 275Mhz for 7 years that still run.

PS, glad you are enjoying your new vishera chip!

 

[RGone]

I did not know the Muskin had that sort of 'headroom' in them. I have been using the Gskil 'ares' series here lately to stay away from the heatspreaders in the way syndrome and they have that sort of 'headroom' in them in the ares models. At least for me.

I owed a computer bud some cash so instead I ordered he and I (well me too) a set each of the Gskil 'ares' Cas 9 DDR2133 in 2x4gig sizing w/1.65V. I doubt that this DDR2133 will have that 200 or so Mhz overclock in it, not since all the companies now sell DDR2400 stuff. But we shall see when it arrives.

I do expect the DDR2133 to run 9, 10, 9 though at less than 1.65V and DDR1950 and that will suit my bud just fine. He can try toward 2133 w/some volts and less on less volts is our hope. Best laid plans have fallen in a ditch more often than not. Hehehe.

I am going to take a look at what Mushkin is offering up now.
RGone...

 

[OCMusicJunkie]

Thanks for the RAM suggestions guys. I've only ran Crucial in the past, with two exceptions. The first being this headache from Corsair- I liked the 1866mhz 9-10-9-27 1.5v specs for the price. The second being Kingston 1333mhz 9-9-9-24 1.5v sticks I have in my daily machine, which have proven bulletproof but definitely lacking headroom.

Does anyone have experience with just how finicky the Asus 990FX boards actually are with their memory being on the QVL? I ask because the entire list contains ONE model of Mushkin that is now discontinued, and only a select few models of G-Skill that are mostly 1.65v rated.