Windows 10 Discussion Thread and Information

[c627627]

Now that the retail version is out, I decided to dive in deep.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the following was not clear in the posts I've read and have found this out the hard way.:
Nothing out there gives you the option of _refusing_ to install any update even on Windows 10 Pro, correct?

All workarounds deal with automatic updates, so you can control the when but not the what.

If you as much as touch the Windows 10 Update button, ALL updates are immediately installed.
All updates. Unnecessary Hardware Updates. Everything.

Internet posts on this then deal with uninstalling/blocking already installed updates.

So the entire topic is centered on just controlling the "when" ALL updates hit your machines?

 

[Waza]

Now that the retail version is out, I decided to dive in deep.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the following was not clear in the posts I've read and have found this out the hard way.:
Nothing out there gives you the option of _refusing_ to install any update even on Windows 10 Pro, correct?

All workarounds deal with automatic updates, so you can control the when but not the what.

If you as much as touch the Windows 10 Update button, ALL updates are immediately installed.
All updates. Unnecessary Hardware Updates. Everything.

Internet posts on this then deal with uninstalling/blocking already installed updates.

So the entire topic is centered on just controlling the "when" ALL updates hit your machines?

You can delay non essential updates( at least in pro version ). All critical security updates will still auto-install.
And accepting updates for hardware is optional if I am not totally mistaken.

I actually think that automatic updates are a good thing.. I am aware of the problems they may cause occasionally but in the end it will improve compatibility and security as a whole.

 

[c627627]

When you manually touch the Windows Update button - *everything* gets installed.
There are two different topics:
1. *When* updates are installed.
2. *What* updates are installed.

It's one thing to prevent updates installing *whenever* they want.
It is a completely different topic *what* gets updated.

Refusing any update appears to be impossible IF you check for Windows Updates. They ALL appear to install.
All posts talk about not automatically installing them which is completely different from when you actually want to install a critical update but not, say a hardware update...

When it comes to professional experienced users, we just want to have a choice.
It is impossible to CHECK what updates are available. They all install the moment you try to check.

 

[c627627]

Another important question answered.
If you have an older Windows 10 Insider build, simply fresh install Windows 10 final. Be sure you are logged in with the same Microsoft Account you used to activate the old Windows 10 Insider build,
then
Start > Settings > Update & security > Advanced options > Get started to Get Insider Builds.
The installation recognizes your system and you can move forward with a Windows 10 Insider license, without having to enter any Windows 10 keys.

It remains to be seen whether this can be done to old activated Windows 10 Insider accounts after October 1, 2015, when evaluation copies are set to expire. But whoever updates them before then should have no expiration date.

 

[Niku-Sama]

When you manually touch the Windows Update button - *everything* gets installed.
There are two different topics:
1. *When* updates are installed.
2. *What* updates are installed.

It's one thing to prevent updates installing *whenever* they want.
It is a completely different topic *what* gets updated.

Refusing any update appears to be impossible IF you check for Windows Updates. They ALL appear to install.
All posts talk about not automatically installing them which is completely different from when you actually want to install a critical update but not, say a hardware update...

When it comes to professional experienced users, we just want to have a choice.
It is impossible to CHECK what updates are available. They all install the moment you try to check.

I know what you mean and yes. You can do the gpedit.msc thing and change it to "notify but do not install" for updates like in windows 7 but it still doesn't give you the ability to select which ones you want and don't want.

I can't stand silver light and Bing so I wouldn't install those but I'm sure it'll make me do it in the future since they are already installed and will probably need updated.

I'm fairly certain that there is a way to select which ones do and which ones don't but until some one finds that.....

 

[Alaric]

Try this http://www.majorgeeks.com/news/stor...to_avoid_telemetry_or_windows_10_upgrade.html

 

[Niku-Sama]

that seems to be to avoid the upgrade to windows 10 from within 7, 8 and 8.1 plus some other things that break 7, 8 and 8.1

 

[c627627]

I think Alaric's post has nothing to do with choosing which updates to install on Windows 10, where you cannot make that choice as far as I've seen anything posted anywhere.

But it is a useful list about which updates not to install on Windows 7/8 where you can choose what to install.

 

[.aT]

I need clarity on something please...if after installing Win 10 on a Win 7 Pro machine, and one decides they do not want it yet, can they reformat and reinstall Win 7 Pro? In other words, dl'ing Win 10 does not invalidate one's Win 7 Pro key in the MS system; ie, trading one OS for another permanently?

You can understand why one would want to be crystal clear on this. Thanks.

 

[c627627]

I completely agree, it's one of the most important questions and Microsoft should have posted that much earlier and much clearer. If anyone has a link to what Microsoft said about this *after* the final version of Windows 10 was released, please post.

But what Microsoft did say before the final version was released was that they do not deactivate Windows 7/8 keys, instead your machine is registered, they know where it "came from" so if you wanted to go back to where you "came from" - nuking Windows 10 partition and installing the same Windows 7/8 key you had before switching to Win10 is OK.


But then the best strategy is to install Windows 7/8 and Window 10 as a dual boot, on two separate relatively small SSD partitions.
That way you simply boot from one into the other *when* anything goes wrong and even image one OS partition from the other.
This is very helpful to also tell if any future problem is OS related.

I always keep my old OS on 35 GB partitions.

 

[Janus67]

We have a post a little ways back quoting a microsoft MVP that the license is not revoked for previous windows versions.

You can also go back down to the previous version (assuming you did an in-place upgrade from it) within 30 days.

 

[c627627]

We do.
And we also have Microsoft publicly reversing not an MVP but an actual Microsoft Vice President a day or two after he said something regarding Windows 10. Blog posts and words are one thing and statements are another.

We need an official Microsoft statement posted somewhere after the Final Version's EULA was actually released about any limitations on going back. What 30 days thing did was to raise fears about "what happens after 30 days?" - that's what the 30 day thing did as far as clarifying this important issue.

Where is an official Microsoft statement about expiration date of Windows 7/8 keys which have been used to activate Windows 10?
Last we heard is that Windows 7/8 keys will not expire before their end of life in 2020 for 7 and 2023 for 8.

This is a completely legitimate question, I wish I saved the details about what the Vice President of Marketing (I think it was marketing) said and how Microsoft then reversed him.


Why is there no official FAQ post on this on Microsoft's web sites?

 

[Dlaw]

When you manually touch the Windows Update button - *everything* gets installed.
There are two different topics:
1. *When* updates are installed.
2. *What* updates are installed.

It's one thing to prevent updates installing *whenever* they want.
It is a completely different topic *what* gets updated.

Refusing any update appears to be impossible IF you check for Windows Updates. They ALL appear to install.
All posts talk about not automatically installing them which is completely different from when you actually want to install a critical update but not, say a hardware update...

When it comes to professional experienced users, we just want to have a choice.
It is impossible to CHECK what updates are available. They all install the moment you try to check.

Hardware updates can be deferred, someone posted the processes a few pages back. All you have to do is go into Control Panel -> System -> Hardware tab -> Device Installation Settings and click "No, let me choose what to do" and "Never download driver software from Windows Update". I can confirm that it worked for me, as Windows Update didn't update my NVidia driver when the latest one was released.

 

[Janus67]

I have those settings set, Dlaw, but it looks like Windows will be trying to install the latest AMD drivers this evening despite that.

 

[Niku-Sama]

I noticed that aswell HOWEVER...

I noticed that since I installed a beta driver for AMD it doesnt know where in time its seemed to come from so it hasn't asked me to update my driver lately. that or I am just lucky it hasn't bugged me yet

 

[c627627]

I have just started a big write-up on all the settings and am becoming familiar with them.
I already came across that one and here it is in detail. Clearly it refers to when new hardware is DETECTED, it does not refer to updates once installed.

Start > File Explorer > [wait for it to show up, then] Right click on This PC > Properties > Advanced system settings > Hardware TAB > Device Installation Settings > SELECT: No, let me choose what to > Never install driver software from Windows Update. UNCHECK everything here. > Save changes > OK.


INSTALLATION settings, not hardware windows update settings, after the driver is actually installed.


Therefore, if you so much as TOUCH that Windows Update button, if the wind blows over that Windows Update button - *everything* immediately gets installed!
This is a recipe for disaster.

Rule #1 about Windows Updates from Windows 98 to Windows 8 was to never let Windows Update anywhere near your hardware and always and only install driver updates from the manufacturer - especially video card drivers.


There is a lot of confusion about blocking Windows Update on Windows 10. So far from everything I've seen - We cannot block individual updates.
We can only choose WHEN EVERYTHING is installed.

We cannot just install a security update and not install a completely unnecessary and highly risky hardware update.

We can only control WHEN all or nothing gets installed. So if anyone sees anything that addresses this - please post because chances are 9/10 that registry hacks and settings changes you find will only effect the entire Windows Update process and not individual updates.

 

[Niku-Sama]

what about disabling the update service it self and doing it manually. that'd be a lot of patched to hunt down but until some better option comes along...

 

[.aT]

THANKS c627627 & Janus67. I had done a couple of keyword searches in the thread but obviously no joy. Should have re-read entire thread from beginning. Appreciate'it.

Contemplation time.

 

[c627627]

Feel free to ask anything you want without reading the thread.

what about disabling the update service it self and doing it manually. that'd be a lot of patched to hunt down but until some better option comes along...

Yes the entire topic centers on disabling AUTOMATIC updates, that's what everyone everywhere ever talked about. The "when". That can be done. No automatic updates.
But disabling the update service disables Windows Updates.

Of course most of us want Windows Updates. Critical Updates.
Disabling the entire update system has nothing to do with wanting to refuse just the non-critical/optional/hardware updates. And that's the goal, not disabling critical updates. We want to click on the Windows Update button and be able to choose to accept/refuse non-critical/optional/hardware updates. That cannot be done under any circumstances, using any hack I read about.

 

[chawks2]

Generally, I agree with many of the comments about how WU is thrust down our throats. I did find some interesting things in Scheduled tasks, I believe I neglected to mention this prior.

"Server Initiated Healing" my BUTT! See screenshot.

You can find this @ Task Scheduler Library => Microsoft => Windows => Windows Update.