Yet another new build

[Docwoor]

Hello guys!
First, thanks for all the info I was able to gather in the forums! I've been hanging around and reading up on stuff for the past few weeks now, hehe

Well on to my dilemma. It's time to upgrade my old and trusty pc with something a bit more snappy The pc will primarily be used for writing stuff in word, editing pics in photoshop and lightroom and "some" gaming (more than i should anyways ) The main idea behind the whole build is to be as silent as possible. I'd also like to keep it as aestheticaly black as possible (apart from the Noctua, the poo-brown is a kind of statement )

So this is what I plan to put together:

PSU: bequiet! Dark Power Pro 10 650W
CPU: Intel Core i5-3570k
Cooler: Noctua NH-C12P SE 14 (or NH-L12)
Board: Asus Maximus V GENE or MSI Z77 MPower
GPU: Asus GTX 670 DC2
RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR3-1600 8GB
SSD: Samsung 830 256GB
HDD: WD Caviar Green 2TB
Case: Fractal Design Define R4

So my biggest problem is with the motherboard. The Asus looks really sweet, but i dislike the fact that its micro ATX, im afraid the bigger noctuas may cause clearance problems with the Noctua C12, hence I'm also considering the L12. Further it doesn't have PS2 slot, which would mean I'd have to get a new keyboard as well. Also micro ATX will kind of look silly in the case. And from what I've heard and read Asus boards tend to cause a lot of problems. Just looking through forums almost every thread with mobo problems has "Asus p8Z77" in it that doesn't really inspire confidence in the company.
On the plus side it does have that Supreme Sound chip which name I keep forgetting, but as far as I know it's only a re-branded RealTek chip, so its mostly marketing I guess. Or do you think there would be an audible difference to the MSI board?

The MSI on the other hand looks absolutely fantastic, the only thing thats a bit of a shame is that its got only 2 SATA III ports. Everything else looks really top notch. Bluetooth is a welcome addition as well. The 24h burn-in test they perform is reassuring that my board won't be dead when I get it. But I couldn't find many reports on MSI boards and their reliability.

I've also noticed that a lot of you guys recommend ASRock boards, but I've had bad experience with them. Thus I'm not considering them.

About the Processor, do you guys think an i7 would benefit me much for Photoshop? I know the gain in games is negligible. There are a lot of synthetic benchmarks floating around, but not so many real world application tests.

I'm also thinking of putting 2 additional 140mm fans in the case for some added airflow.

I'd be happy if you guys had any other recommendations or personal experience you could report on.

Thanks guys!

P.S. sorry for posting yet another "help - new build" thread. I hope you are not sick of them just yet

 

[EarthDog]

Asus, Giga, MSI have great boards. I havent seen enough complaints on any forum to label Asus boards sub par.

The only reason you need SIII ports are for SSD's. Will you have more than two? Besides, the 3rd party controllers (the only way you get more SIII ports) are MUCH slower anyway (though still faster than SII). I reviewed the MPower and its a great board.

That said, you do not need such powerful boards. They are meant for heavy/extreme overclocking really. A simple P8Z77-V or Asrock Z77 Extreme4 would be plenty (though that Asus doesnt match your color scheme, the Asrock would). As far as the CPU and photoshop, not sure. A lot of filters are GPU accelerated and you have a solid choice there (or a AMD 7950) already.

 

[PolePosition]

Well, since he's down on ASUS, and totally down on ASRock, I think the Gigabyte UD3 is his best option, and I don't know why anyone would consider an mATX board and its limitations except ONLY for an HTPC or simple web/email/office/etc only machine.

I don't know enough about MSI to warrant going in that direction, much less ECS, Jetway, Biostar, or Zotac even though ECS builds the boards for ASRock.

 

[EarthDog]

+1 - Z77 UD3H is a solid choice.

Though, I'm not sure what "limits" are on the GENE you speak of...same # of memory slots, same # sata ports, similar USB to most ATX, SLI/Crossfire, and this one overclocks hella well. The board he listed, and a couple other mATX boards are BEASTS believe it or not (Asrock X79 Extreme4-M was the best X79 board I reviewed out of the box for the record).

 

[PolePosition]

+1 - Z77 UD3H is a solid choice.

Though, I'm not sure what "limits" are on the GENE you speak of...same # of memory slots, same # sata ports, similar USB to most ATX, SLI/Crossfire, and this one overclocks hella well. The board he listed, and a couple other mATX boards are BEASTS believe it or not (Asrock X79 Extreme4-M was the best X79 board I reviewed out of the box for the record).

No denying the specs, but from what I notice on most of them is the limited PCI slots, where you're lucky to get 2. Some do have less SATA/USB ports as well. I find most are a chopped down version of their ATX counterparts, and I also notice less I/O ports on most of them.

EDIT: Excuse me for asking a dumb question, but what is with the "+1" stuff I see on occasion? Some of us (or at least me) don't know or are unfamiliar with such things.

 

[EarthDog]

If they are needed, I agree... I dont know many people requiring more than two PCIe slots (PCI=obsolete for most people), 8 USB ports...etc. No worries, but they are just as robust, for the most part, as ATX counterparts, and offer the connectivity that people need (Id say 95% of people even - Do you need more than that?). They are quite viable outside of an HTPC/Office PC... especially the GENE, IMHO.

Oh well. cheers.

EDIT: The only thing I see missing here are VGA outs.. which many ATX boards do not have (most mATX do though so they can use the on board GPU). I guess it depends on your needs, but its FAR more of a complete and robust solution than you had made it out to be.

EDIT2: +1 = I agree.

 

[wagex]

+1 to what earthdog said!

basically it means i agree but our lazy way to say it

 

[Docwoor]

Thanks for all the replies guys! I'll look into the Gigabyte model as well! I'll have to do a bit of research first to see whats available from local reputable retailers. Seems like so many thing I just cant get my hands on without paying unbelievable amounts for shipping from Germany. No way for me to get G.skill or crucial ram for instance.

I think you misunderstood me, the GENE is a hell of a board, the only things I complained about is the lack of a PS2 port, and it seems the PCIe slot is closer to the CPU socket than on bigger boards, which could cause clearance issues with the Noctua NH C12P. Noctua states that the board and cooler are compatible but I'm just being extra careful, since the coolers are expensive. I'd hate to buy one and not be able to fit it in :/

I don't mind that much that it's micorATX. The reason I'm considering the MSI is because they come in at the same price point, around 190€. And they both look very very sweet indeed. I've just had a few reservations about MSI boards in general because I have no personal experience with them and I didn't see many reviews or forum reports on those boards. Right now I'm using an old Asus board and it still serves me well, so I'm not disinclined to buy one I'm just very cautious about everything

Thanks for the SATA clarification EarthDog, I wasn't sure if I'll get any benefit from sata 3 and standard HDDs. And I think 2 sata3 ports are plenty for SSDs, future upgrades and stuff the prices of ssd just seem to be plummeting

 

[PolePosition]

I gave serious consideration and had serious concerns when deciding on a CPU cooling solution with my build, but decided to go with a sealed water cooling unit because they take up much less space and don't block your RAM slots if/when you want to add or replace RAM without having to remove your cooler, which also means you'd have to clean off all the TIMM and reapply it and mount the cooler again hoping you get the right contact. Many people do it all the time without a hitch but for me, the only time I care to break that bond is when I decide to upgrade my CPU and not for gaining access to other components. I also don't like the idea of those big towers hanging onto my motherboard creating stress without any additional support, but I'm sure its not an issue for most.
I do wish I had gone with the Corsair H100 though.

 

[EarthDog]

Doc - You can get PS/2 to USB adapters for a few dollars so don't let that sway your thinking. For the record I addressing Polep's opinion/misconceptions on matx boards. He generically mentioned "limits"... and while there, it doesn't affect many at all... including you. So I thank him for mentioning them, but clearly that was not a concern (and isnt for the vast majority of users).

You will not get any benefit on SATAIII using a HDD. Strictly SSD's will you see that need.

Again, there shouldnt be any reservations about MSI boards. I am a reviewer here and outside of growing pains on a brand new platform at the time (X79) I havent seen any problems with their boards over any other maker. They are quality as well.

+1 for H100, especially if you plan on overclocking far. H80 will be fine for most users and overclocks.

 

[PolePosition]

SATA III= 6GB transfer rate
SATA II= 3GB tranfer rate
So only double the speed, and true when you have a 7200rpm HDD, but with a 10,000rpm WD Velociraptor, that speed can be appreciated.
Try one sometime, you'll like it.

 

[EarthDog]

Not even with the Velorap... Its transfer speeds are below 3GB rate coming in at 213MB..

I had one, and a modern SSD blows its doors off.

 

[Docwoor]

Thanks for all the input. I'm set on getting the MSI board, it will take a week or two for them get in stock, but I'm in no hurry What won me over in the end was the bigger form factor, allowing for more expandabilty in the future a soundcard, maybe another graphics card etc. more options when it comes to coolers. I'm set on a noctua cooler for now, the H100 looks sweet, but it wouldnt fit in the case i chose.

As for the velociraptor, not only does it get destroyed by SSDs its darn expensive too for an HDD.

Thanks again all!

 

[Docwoor]

Ah btw, after some research i found this site which has return rates for some PC components. I found it quite interesting. I think its worth checking out.

 

[EarthDog]

I have seen the excerpt of this for SSD's (link in my sig, but never the source article). I am going to post this up for all to see as this is pretty cool to see.

Thanks!

 

[PolePosition]

Interesting article. I'm glad none of my hardware is listed!!
Must be zero return rate! lol

 

[EarthDog]

Your venerable sabertooth is there from a previous generation though.

 

[PolePosition]

Meh, I don't really give much kudos to stuff like that simply because:
A. Its France, what do you expect?
B. Its skewed toward taking down the big dogs while boosting the chiwawas.
C. Naturally, when you sell more product, you will have a higher return rate.
D. I suspect much of that is due to incompetant builders and user error.
E. They know there's many more sheep than wolves, which is how propaganda works to get sheep on the bandwagon.
F. Thats why I always stay a step ahead of the "previous" generation with reliability and performance, utilizing the newest technology on the market, which has often addressed the pitfalls of the past.

 

[EarthDog]

It was good a minute ago...

A: LOL
B: You are kidding right? Talk about a conspiracy theory!
C: Do the math on that one... it takes way more product to get to the same percentage.
For example, If I sell 1000 units it takes 10 to get 1%. If I sell 10,000 units it takes 100 to get to 1%. The unit of measure was % not units...
D: Could be.. read the begining.. that was already a thought.
E: I dont get this comment.
F: Funny as its new products (though you didnt get it upon release) that have more quirks to work out... LOL!

 

[Conumdrum]

Meh, I don't really give much kudos to stuff like that simply because:
A. Its France, what do you expect?

Looks like we have some redneck attitudes. Your state is one of the poorest and least educated states in the USA. Nuff said on that comment. Bazinga, back at you.

B. Its skewed toward taking down the big dogs while boosting the chiwawas.

Okay, why don't the cute puppies get rated?

C. Naturally, when you sell more product, you will have a higher return rate.

I refer you back to A.

D. I suspect much of that is due to incompetant builders and user error.

Maybe, but once the board gets to an experianced tech repair man, that idea is moot.

E. They know there's many more sheep than wolves, which is how propaganda works to get sheep on the bandwagon.

Whatever.

F. Thats why I always stay a step ahead of the "previous" generation with reliability and performance, utilizing the newest technology on the market, which has often addressed the pitfalls of the past.

It's data from a previous generation. Does that mean that xx company has new managers and new factories to decrease return rates? What?