You may be a winner: WB prize.

[bigben2k]

nice DIY chiller,
but your pump just took a HUGE hit in it's flowrate
higher viscosity is not appreciated by open-face centrifugal impellers, nor all the other WCing system bits and pieces
(see the coolant temp graph in the wb results article)

I'm guessing you are not aware of any (desireable) wb design differences when using chilled coolant ?
- got some more lessons coming
think on it, completely different limiting parameters

be cool

I'd be using the windshield wiper solution which, according to the data available in S. Gamble's article, the dynamic viscosity is actually better than water. However, I do remember someone correcting Scott on the viscosity issue...

See bottom of page:
http://www.overclockers.com/articles609/index02.asp

Otherwise, I'm looking forward to your next writeup, because I indeed have no idea what desirable wb design differences should be. Off the top of my head, I would say that it would involve baseplate thickness, since there would be a greater delta T. By extension, it would also affect fin parameters.

I am not using a modeling tool, but I do plan on experimenting with one. (so if anyone has a link to a free CFD rpogram, let me know!)

It is indeed a shot in the dark, but I am fairly certain that Radius will perform very well.

 

[UnLoadeD]

jaydee116, don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning stealing/borrowing other people's designs. Just stating a fact of life. I can see your point of view tho. Something to keep in mind tho. BillA doesn't really do any commenting on the design of the the block, just the results of the testing. The most I recall him saying about a design was the barb being a bit close to the wingnut. The description of the block will be taken from the maker's description, and thats up to them on how many details they will give. Ideally somebody with possible plans of producing/selling their block could be a bit vague on the design to protect their interests. If the test results showed worse than expected results, it would be nice if they then gave more info to keep others from going down the same road. These are just my initial feelings on the subject, but now you've got me thinking about it. Not being a maker myself I kinda viewed it from an opersource point of view, thinking the more info on designs the better. I never really considered your stance until now. Hopefully this will be discussed further and I'm sure a simple solution can be reached.

peace.
unloaded

 

[BillA]

jaydee116
JoeC and I have discussed this at some length, and several conclusions were reached

I test the wbs as a 'black box', without prejudice or reference to what might be within
- an obvious exception would be a wb with a clear top, but even so my commentary is/will be related to the visual aspects

I do/will not analyze (or is that speculate ?) about the effects of the wb's characteristics other than as they may directly relate to a performance characteristic
- an example might be the effect on flow rate by using 1/4" copper tubing for the connections
- or a bp that is as rough as a cob

as I have data available to me that may not be generally known, it would be inappropriate to 'state' conclusions without also providing the supporting factual basis

which leads to at least a part of what JoeC's "Roundup" is all about:
sure, testing Commercial wbs will provide real facts to utilize in buying decisions,
but DIY wb testing will provide an ever increasing insight into 'what works and what doesn't'
and to this extent more disclosure by the DIY fabricator will serve to benefit other DIYers

while it is tempting to think that the wb mfgrs' R&D is far beyond all this, we can suspect that for many it is not
so will they troll the "Roundup" looking for good ideas ?
- lets hope so
understand the patent process: once publically disclosed, any patent protection is gone
(that includes forum discussions too, eh ?)

if the idea is good, and it's designer was unable or unwilling to bring it to market, let someone else do so
(Fixit and DTek are an example of such collaboration)

HEY !
if you guys don't like mfgrs who copy another’s product -> then don't buy it

a small cautionary note about 'cheaper' testing:
(which can only mean some combo of lesser equipment, fewer tests, done faster, done by uninformed people)
of what utility is a database full of sloppy numbers ?

we have much to gain, and little to lose

Ben
who is ever going to be writing "a wb design guide for sub-zero coolants" ?
pretty thin market there
(I did not mean ''shot in the dark' as denigration, just that you're on your own)

be cool

 

[bigben2k]

Ben
who is ever going to be writing "a wb design guide for sub-zero coolants" ?
pretty thin market there
(I did not mean ''shot in the dark' as denigration, just that you're on your own)

be cool

Understood. Would like to see a wb design guide, period!

Do you foresee my res as an issue for testing? (refer to Radius thread, on ProCooling).

 

[BillA]

procooling ? where's that at ??
I'm on dial-up Ben, that thread is too long

more seriously, yes - a problem
I suspend the wbs horizontally, can you jury-rig lines to convey the coolant ?

NOTE: I control the coolant temp to ±0.02°C and this is measured immediately before entering the wb, and upon exiting
AND I take the pressure drop (corrected for the connections) at the same place

BTW, that res is the WORST thing you could possibly devise for chilled coolant,
you have created something hopelessly complex for absolutely NO benefit

this may sound cruel, but you should have another go with a clean sheet of paper
-> start with methods, then work to the means
(you've done it backwards !, and it shows)

'a design guide for wbs' ?
who would read such ? (those procooling guys already know everything, no ?)
of greater interest would be 'a design guide for WCing systems'
but you know what ? here the guys already know all about that
strange world

 

[jaydee116]

Good points BillA. I belive however there still needs to be a signed disclaimer stating that you guys will not be held responsible for any design that may get used by others. And warn of the possibility of this happening. Otherwise yes, I have to agree.

 

[bigben2k]

more seriously, yes - a problem
I suspend the wbs horizontally, can you jury-rig lines to convey the coolant ?

NOTE: I control the coolant temp to ±0.02°C and this is measured immediately before entering the wb, and upon exiting
AND I take the pressure drop (corrected for the connections) at the same place

BTW, that res is the WORST thing you could possibly devise for chilled coolant,
you have created something hopelessly complex for absolutely NO benefit

this may sound cruel, but you should have another go with a clean sheet of paper
-> start with methods, then work to the means
(you've done it backwards !, and it shows)

I can make a special top, just for you

As for that monstrous res, I agree. I'll rework it later...