At what point is a sound card an upgrade?

[JonSimonzi]

I'm going to be getting a nice set of headphones soon, either the Sennheiser PC 333D, PC 350, or PC 360, haven't decided yet. Anyway, a good set of headphones is useless if you don't have something good driving it. I have a Maximus III Formula motherboard, which has that SupremeFX X-Fi little addon card thing for sound. How good is that, and at what point would a sound card be an upgrade? I can assume the $200 beefy Asus Xonar cards would be an upgrade, but how about something like this or this? Upgrade? Not at all? Just looking for a little advice. Thanks

 

[gregmacknass]

Virtually any sound card will be a huge upgrade in quality compared to the onboard audio. But you do get what you pay for with sound cards. The more you spend, the better the quality and features. Just search for reviews of the particular card(s) you are interested in (even better if you can find someone using the same setup you are planning on using) and make an informed purchase based on your needs and research.
-Greg

 

[Theocnoob]

I'm going to be getting a nice set of headphones soon, either the Sennheiser PC 333D, PC 350, or PC 360, haven't decided yet. Anyway, a good set of headphones is useless if you don't have something good driving it. I have a Maximus III Formula motherboard, which has that SupremeFX X-Fi little addon card thing for sound. How good is that, and at what point would a sound card be an upgrade? I can assume the $200 beefy Asus Xonar cards would be an upgrade, but how about something like this or this? Upgrade? Not at all? Just looking for a little advice. Thanks

Your addon xfi card is not a card. It's just I/O for the p.o.s. onboard audio.

The best soundcard for analog is the Xonar STX.

 

[gregmacknass]

Actually the Lynx 2b is the best card out there, but it has a steep entry fee. The ESI Juli@ is the next best choice. The Xonar is a great card as well but it is bested by both of the ones I mentioned.
-Greg

 

[Theocnoob]

Didn't even know about that thing. What's the damage?

 

[gregmacknass]

$150

 

[Prime]

where can you even buy them?

 

[gregmacknass]

You can find it here.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...og_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CC0Q8wIwAg#

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-ESI-Juli-4i...116?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb28f921c

 

[tom10167]

What are the upsides to getting a sound card vs using your onboard spdif and getting a dac?

 

[gregmacknass]

The upside to getting a good sound card instead of a DAC is that a sound card has more features/uses. You can use it for its spdif out, running headphones, for recording, using it as a DAC. Using a dedicated DAC has it's own advantages as well. Such as it is a purpose built dedicated unit that was not a compromise quality/engineering wise to add it to another component. With that being said, a high end quality sound card will perform the DAC's function as well as dedicated DAC's costing as much or more. So the choice is really a matter of your audio needs and bank account size. And just to let you know, not all spdif signals are created equal. You really have to look at the sample rate of the signal and material that you are trying to play. The fact is that between the lower sample rate and signal interference that onboard audio suffers from, makes it far from an ideal source.
-Greg

 

[JonSimonzi]

Well let me ask this then. What level or price range of sound card should I be looking at to best make use of a $150 - $200 pair of Sennheiser headphones?

 

[gregmacknass]

Joe,
The best card for that price range is going to be the ESI Juli@ If you look at my post above, I have posted direct links to places you can buy it from. I personally use one in my dedicated audio rig, and recommend it highly. For the price, it can't be beat. But don't just take my word on it, search for some reviews and see for yourself.
-Greg

 

[Sir Barton]

The Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 is also a very nice sound card. I have the new Advance DE edition, its almost the same as the old version, but with upgraded capacitors. It uses many of the same components as the ESI Juli@, but at a lower cost. The main differences being the ESI card gives you choices for outputs, such as balanced or unbalanced, as well has SPDIF-in, which the HD2 doesnt have. They both use the same DAC and DSP, with the HD2 giving the user the option to roll (see upgrade) opamps. I run mine with 4x AD797B at the DAC stage, and 2x LT1363 for the buffer. Stock, it comes with 2x OPA2134 for the DAC, and 1x OPA2604 at the buffer stage. The HD2 also uses a fully differential output, something which you will find on higher end CD players, such as the Rega Planet, Cambridge 740C, Marantz SA8004, etc.

 

[gregmacknass]

That Audiotrak Prodigy HD2 is a pretty nice card for $100.
-Greg

Correction $70 or less on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOTRAK-PRODI...714?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c18d9e632

 

[Sir Barton]

Heres the HD2 Advance DE...itll set you back about $100. Shipping was very fast too I might add, received it in one week from South Korea.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOTRAK-Prodi...006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c189715de

 

[Theocnoob]

$150

Meh... I don't know how good it can be.

Have you seen the ARCAM usb DAC? I was looking at one today at the store. $400. No doubt better than any soundcard. Sucks audio in digitally from your PC and DAC's it in a big white box.

 

[Sir Barton]

Ive been through quite a few sound cards and DACs in my hifi day. A good sound card can compete well with an external DAC. Take for instance, my Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09. When I bought it 2 years ago, it set me back $350...now look where it is, sitting in one of my "lesser" systems. The HD2 DE is my main source now. I dont buy into any of the "computers are noisy inside" nonsense, a well engineered source, be it internal or external, wont put noise in the signal path. Its hard to say that a DAC that costs $x is as good as a sound card that costs $x...when in reality, not every source does everything right. Its like asking somebody how they like their eggs .

 

[JonSimonzi]

Thanks a ton for all the good replies. While most of the stuff like this

They both use the same DAC and DSP, with the HD2 giving the user the option to roll (see upgrade) opamps. I run mine with 4x AD797B at the DAC stage, and 2x LT1363 for the buffer. Stock, it comes with 2x OPA2134 for the DAC, and 1x OPA2604 at the buffer stage. The HD2 also uses a fully differential output, something which you will find on higher end CD players, such as the Rega Planet, Cambridge 740C, Marantz SA8004, etc.

might as well be latin to me, I definitely appreciated the responses. Gives me a few cards to look into for a decent price range

Edit: While the ESI Juli@ does look like a beast card, it looks to be way more than I need, focusing a lot on input and recording. The most input this card would see, is from the microphone on a headset used with something like Ventrilo. Here's what my audio setup/needs would essentially be. A sound card, going out to a ~$200 Sennheiser headset, and at the moment 2.1 (out of a 5.1 speaker set up, 2 speakers broke ) of a Creative speaker set that cost like $60 at Best Buy, 6 years ago. Although, I do in the future see myself upgrading to a 5.1 setup, something like the Logitech Z500, something $300 - $400 all in one box setup. It'll mainly be used for games, and listening to 320kbps MP3's (although with a good card\headphones\speakers, I can re-rip everything in FLAC), and an occasional movie.

I don't ever see myself hooking up an external amplifier or receiver, or picking out speakers and assembling something piece by piece. A good pair of headphones\headset as well as boxed 5.1 speaker setup is probably as far as I'll go.

Now, with that being defined, and with all the other info I've picked up in the thread and looking into the cards recommended, I started looking at the other Audiotrak Prodigy cards. I looked at a Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1e X-Fi card, which looks to have everything I'd need (unless I'm still not fully understanding the whole "good audio" thing, which is possible). An onboard DAC, headphone amp, a OPAMP OPA2134 (whatever that is ) that the HD2 comes with, etc, etc...

2nd Edit: The thing that got me looking at that linked card, is a review I read said "Unlike most of Audiotrak's products, this Prodigy is not geared towards the home recording studio, but aimed squarely at the gamer-slash-audiophile.", which sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Theocnoob]

Heres the HD2 Advance DE...itll set you back about $100. Shipping was very fast too I might add, received it in one week from South Korea.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDIOTRAK-Prodi...006?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c189715de

Those capacitors are rather blurg... How's it sound?

 

[Sir Barton]

2nd Edit: The thing that got me looking at that linked card, is a review I read said "Unlike most of Audiotrak's products, this Prodigy is not geared towards the home recording studio, but aimed squarely at the gamer-slash-audiophile.", which sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.

The HD2 is definitely not a gamers card, it uses no audio acceleration, its pretty much for music and movies only. Youll be sorely disappointed if you game with it. The Audiotrak X-Fi is a different animal in that it supports game audio acceleration, since it uses the X-Fi DSP (in simple terms, X-Fi audio processor).

Those capacitors are rather blurg... How's it sound?

It sounds awesome. It replaced my Grant Fidelity Tube-DAC09 in my main system, which cost me $350 a couple years ago. The DAC is cheaper now, but the Audiotrak HD2 sounds better to my ears. Keep in mind I also have a little over $100 worth of opamps on my sound card . The AD797Bs are $20 each, and the LT1363s are $7 to $10 each depending on where you get them. I switched from dual opamps to singles. By doing that, you eliminate any possibility of crosstalk, plus you get much better separation in the sound.