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Building RADI-5 NAS Video Server!

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GreenJelly

GreenJelly

Member
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Joined
Oct 16, 2006
Not much to say... Not going to be used much!

I need an OS with an Expandable Software RAID-5 configuration. I have access to Windows 2003, and of course Linux (though I am a complete Noob). I asked in a Linux forum about software RAID that will allow me to add disks without backing up/moving the files. By Expandable I mean, plug in drive, tell the OS to incorporate the new drive, OS rebuilds array with existing data and includes the new drive.

I am buying a VERY large case with the ability to hold an incredible (like 20) amount of hard drives. I am starting out with 6 drives, and will expand as needed. (thus as time passes I save money on lower costing Hardware)

Usage: Serving Video/Movie Files to Media Centers. No Live TV recording will be done on this machine so It wont be used constantly. (I may move a favorite TV show to it, though it wont be accessed much since its like all video files... you watch them once or twice a year at most).

Purpose and Objective: CHEAP! On Demand Local Media Storage without the need for Disks (they will be stored in a separate location where they are safe). Music will be stored (duplicated/backedup) on two different machines (currently around 190 Gigs of it), and will not need to be shared much.

At a threat of cross referencing; check out my thread in the Motherboard Section;
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=516049

My Questions (which limit the scope of this project to this specific forum) is that I see PCI SATA (or SAS) cards with 8 SATA (2 SAS) slots. I also see Motherboards with 6 or more SATA drive ports. Will I be able to fill up a gigabyte network with these devices, or will I experience a bottleneck somewhere in the different interfaces?

Is there any SATA II cards/adapters that I should avoid or focus on for their ability to co-op with other SATA devices?

What version and Distro of Linux is best (easy for a Linux Noob like me) for this?

Will Windows 2003 support Extending RAID arrays?

Any Ideas on reducing Power Consumption (above and beyond HD disk spin downs).

Any Ideas on the Link provided above would be appreciated, but please reply in the Motherboard section, since this is a storage forum.

Thanks
GreenJelly
 
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Your only real bottleneck is going to be the PCI bus. The total bandwidth of the PCI bus is 133 MB/s, and with that many harddrives, it will fill that bandwidth quickly. If you have a motherboard with a second (or third, even) PCI-E x16 slot, you could purchase a SATA RAID card that has either a PCI-E x4 interface or x8 interface. It would be a little more expensive, but you'd have a TON more bus bandwidth and would eliminate the biggest bottleneck. You will definetely have to check the specifications of the motherboard you choose, as some consumer SLI motherboards will not function with anything other than a video card in the second x16 slot.

As for your OS questions, I believe Server 2003 SHOULD be able to expand the array as you add drives, but don't quote me on that. However if you went with a nicer PCI-E x4 or x8 SATA RAID card with true hardware RAID capabilities instead of software RAID, the card itself would be able to expand the array, regardless of which OS you decide on.

Hope that helps :cool:
 
Given what you wrote, I think your best option is going to be Windows Home server. It will do exactly what you want. Alternatively, if you are only going to use this box for storage and nothing else and are willing to tinker and learn, FreeNas may be an option for you.

However, I would suggest a hardware raid card instead if performance is in any way a requirement for you. Since you are going to be buying cards to add ports anyway, a bit extra will get you a decent raid card. The one caveat is that you will need to be buying disks that are the same to expand your arrays. Otherwise you will have to create new arrays (and have the OS see a different physical drive pool). WHS works with any drive.
 
Performance is not an issue with me when you build a NAS machine with todays equipment. This is based on the idea that Gigabyte either net may top out at 500mbps, and that the lowest costing machine will provide more then ample calculation power for writing and storage.

Im sharing video files, not data from a DB or other calculation intensive applications.

Ive looked into Hardware based solutions, and they are EXPENSIVE, and require me to replace my motherboard. They also do not allow for large drive arrays, or future expandability that I am looking to add in the future.

Adaptec 31205 uses a PCI-Express 8x supports 12 drives, is VERY fast, and is expandable. Its VERY expensive (around $600) I just don't have a extra PCI-Express 8x on my current MB. I am also worried about power consumption. I am thus looking at a $1000 solution to expand my current machine to one that supports RAID-5 with a limited amount of drives.

The Adaptec 3805 uses a PCI-Express 4x which supports a total of 8 drives, and should fit in my MoBo if the graphix card issue isnt a problem. It is also espensive. I am going to write Gigabyte right after I get done with this post on that PCI-express issue.

I asked Adaptec about computability issues with my MoBo, and got a re-assuring response from the testing and tech center (not a sales man). The power consumption on these cards were 23w at 12v. The added Hard Drives and other components in my machine may push my power consumption above the 550w PSU that I own. Therefor I would have to buy another PSU anyways.

I am also interested in a solution that would provide even more expandability. I picked out a Box that will hold more then 20 hard drives. Expecting the cost of Hard Drives and SATA add-on cards to drop, I can see a valid reason for building a NAS of this size since HD-DVD's take up around 20-30gigs, Blue Ray up to 50, and DVD's around 5 gigs on average. Of course 20 drives would ultimately lead to a high rate of failure.

The Cooler MAster Stacker, is a Pain in the but to exchange Hard Drives, and with a built in Radiator, external passive cooling reservoir, and multiple case mods, changing to the Lian Lee case that I picked would be a major process that will ultimately end in me having to buy different parts. I could get a maximum of 16 HD drives in it. That is if I replace my current optical drives (2 SATA drives) for external drives, and or find external inclosures for these drives (which I have yet to find)

Thats not to say I have cut out the option to use Hardware based array in my Monster machines (thats the reason for some of my other posts),

I hope this provides more info.

A possible Idea about the PCI adapter is to stager the drives to include 1 from the MoBo, 1 From the Addon Card, 1 from the MoBo, and 1 from the PCI card, etc.

Another PcI device would further expand that possibility. The other issue is how fast is the different on board SATA devices. They two may be 300mbps on the total 6 devices that are included in the P765 chipset, or what ever MB solution I can find.

BTW, in another post (here or somewhere else) they recorded benchmarks of the RAPTOR drives that showed under 150 mbps burst speeds:(
 
IS FreeNAS based on Linux? Other words It would be hard to find drivers for it.

I got a copy of Windows 2003 that is not being used, and Linux is a great option since hardware manufactures usually support it.
 
freeNAS is based on monowall, which is based on freeBSD, which is based on Unix. drivers arent really a issue for it. freenas is great! not the fastest solution, but rock stable and gotta love that ufs file system. another option is to ditch the 7300 and get a cheap 'n' dirty pci gpu card. for a nas it wont matter. can be super old tech. then you have freed up a fast PCIe slot for a raid card in teh future. food for thought...

ive often wondered about your question of expandble raid arrays other than jbod. not sure if the software raid in freenas can do that.
 
Linux supports expandable RAID arrays.

Windows is an unknown. Today I will research that, and look into a few other options.

And I totally agree.. Cheapest processor, small amount of slow value memory, and a MoBo with 6 SATA devices, and/or no raid control device.

I may be stuck with the 6300 even though this is a bit expensive:(

Jelly
 
Linux supports expandable RAID arrays.

Windows is an unknown. Today I will research that, and look into a few other options.

And I totally agree.. Cheapest processor, small amount of slow value memory, and a MoBo with 6 SATA devices, and/or no raid control device.

I may be stuck with the 6300 even though this is a bit expensive:(

Jelly
 
ok, like i thought freenas does not currently support expanding raid arrays on the fly. however,... this is a feature that will be worked into the next release of freeBSD and cochard (freenas author) says they are just wwaiting for that to be released.
 
I am considering a very similar Project and have done some preliminary Research. Would it be possible for you to link how you expand the RAID 5 Software Array? I coudl not seem to find much about it Myself..
 
OkydOky said:
I am considering a very similar Project and have done some preliminary Research. Would it be possible for you to link how you expand the RAID 5 Software Array? I coudl not seem to find much about it Myself..
Click to expand...

Sorry, simple cut and paste... here is an excellent system that should fit very well (the one Im going to buy)... my solution only needs 6 drives at the time, and I went with a Onboard video card P765G chipset to save the PCI-Ex16 (BTW I already have the 7300 video card, I had to update it to play HD-DVD's) slot for further support. This is the third build within the last year, and the 3rd Intel based p765 chpset mobo. This is a NAS only server, meaning that if you want to provide a large number of users with files, or if you plan on using SQL/IIS/PHP/MySQL/Apache on it then you should upgrade the chip, and probably throw a few more memory chips in it. I avoided the 8 SATA p65 boards because they use a SATA II built (usually a Micron) in adapter card, which may end up conflicting with adapter cards added in the future. The DS3 is an amazing motherboard, and I have owned one before. Don't expect to OC this machine:(

I have spent HOURS on this system to provide the best components with cost as the single highest priority the build. You wont find a more complete list of compatible parts. This will be a simple plug in and play. The components also support all major OS software. If you want to add more SATA controllers know that SATA II is backwards compatable with SATA. Also make sure you contact the company and make sure it supports the motherboard.

The machine should be upgradeable for atleast the next 4 years. One chip of memory frees up space to add upto 2 gigs. The chipset will support Intels quad core 2 processors, and the upcoming lower die sized chips, (call it core 2 duo 1.1). The power supply is not what I am going to use. Try to find a PSU with a TON of 12v amps. The biggest problem with these machines power is the spin up power spike (especially when you have 24 drives in it. (the maximum the case will allow with addon 5 3.5" drives in 3 x 5" inch drive bay adapters. Also provides PCI-Express slots for maximum performance on SATA add on cards.

LIAN LI PC-V2000Bplus II Black Aluminum Server Computer Case - Retail
Model #: PC-V2000Bplus II
Item #: N82E16811112062
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$299.99 -$20.00 Instant $279.99

GIGABYTE GA-965G-DS3 LGA 775 Intel G965 Express ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
Model #: GA-965G-DS3
Item #: N82E16813128018
Return Policy: Limited 30-Day Return Policy
$118.99 $118.99

SeaSonic M12 SS-700HM ATX12V / EPS12V 700W Power Supply - Retail
Model #: SS-700HM
Item #: N82E16817151031
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
$209.99 $209.99


Intel Celeron D 360 Cedar Mill 3.46GHz LGA 775 Processor Model BX80552360 - Retail
Model #: BX80552360
Item #: N82E16819112214
Return Policy: Processors (CPUs) Return Policy
$64.00 $64.00

Kingston 512MB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Desktop Memory Model KVR800D2N5/512 - Retail
Model #: KVR800D2N5/512
Item #: N82E16820134115
Return Policy: Standard Return Policy
 
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Why not get the new Intel e2140 instead of the celeron. Would highly recommend at least 1 gig of ram, why not 2gig since its so cheap now. Check out this controller
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816115026
Not sure if you can find standalone controllers with no raid. Try to get a board with multiple pci 16x slots. Also what drives will you use. Remember software raid 5 or 6 will use the cpu alot.
One thing you can do, is make a array now, and then lateron make a second brandnew array, instead of expending your current one. So if you start with four 500gig drives, in raid5, laterone you can buy 4 more and make a second raid5 array. Or any other drive option. This way you not so worried about the expending feature.
Thanks
 
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Why not a core 2 duo extreme?


Im serving files too maybe 3 or 4 sources AT MOST! An old Pentium 3 with 256mb ram would work for this (and does on a machine at another location) and saturate Gigbyte either net!

I have been active in a Linux Raid Thread, and they also support expandability.

I will check out that information though... (as always) thank you.

PCI is very close to the bandwidth of a single drive... Thus it raises interesting issues regarding bottlenecks!

ZFS is an interesting concept, though a overkill for what I am attempting to do. Linux can provide a light weight RAID 5 solution with expandable arrays (with there newer kernels). ZFS is essentially a database filesystem, with transactional capabilities and other nifty ideas. None of which seems to provide the solutions I need. Lastly it seems that ZFS doesnt support a strip set with parity type concept. I also wonder the computability of such a system with current SATA cards. Solarias is a wonderfull OS, but doesnt have the huge development community that Linux has. Almost all manufacturers provide Linux drivers. Very few provide any other Unix based drivers.

OpenBSD and a NAS type OS is also available, though again, computability may be a bad issue.


GreenJelly
 
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