Deciding between 3 AGP cards...

[Exfoliate]

Hey guys, I'm looking to get a moderate upgrade from my 6800 vanilla. I just want something to last me about a year (so DX 10 cards can catch on a drop in price) that'll run current and near future games well. I'm looking at playing Prey, Call of Duty 2, Oblivion, Company of Hero's, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic, and Titans Quest on high/max settings. I'm okay with 1024x768 and 2xAA/4xAF (or no AA/AF if need be) but I'd like to max what I can. I'm only looking at spending $170 or less and this has to be AGP as I don't have the money to upgrade anything else right now.
My top picks are as follows:
7600GT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814122009
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X800XT
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102492
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6800GS
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143045
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This is a very hard decision for me as there are a lot of factors and variables here. Hopefully you guys can help me sort these out.
The X800XT seems to be the fastest of the bunch, it consistently pulls ahead in most tests, often by quite a bit and is a bit cheaper than the others too. http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=529&model2=566&chart=204 But the reviews don't sound so great off of newegg. Most say it's plenty fast but runs really really hot, to the point that it freezes up or quits out of games and so on. I also gather that the software is very buggy and drivers leave a lot to be desired. I'm not about to drop $155 for a buggy card that needs a new HSF. But it does score impressively.
The 7600GT seems pretty fast and usually outdoes the 6800GS right? It's not really at X800XT standards but it does however, like the GS have SM3.0 support which is a nice bonus for HDR games. It comes with Serious Sam 2 which is a great bonus as well.
The 6800GS is interesting. It's not clocked very high but seems to overclock well. But the nice thing is everyone who tried almost seems to have unlocked the pipes and shader to 16/6. What I'm getting at is with a moderate OC (like to 400/1150 or so) and the unlocking would I get it above XT standards? And is the 7600GT AGP unlockable as well? Let me know what you think but currectly my money's on the 6800GS as it seems to have the best potential without being unstable.
Thanks for the help and sorry if this has been discussed or needs moving.

EDIT: One last thing, I noticed the GS has OpenGL 1.5 as opposed to GL 2.0, is that a problem with newer GL based games, would a 2.0 enabled card run them significantly better or doesn't it really make a difference? Thanks again.

 

[Shell]

I say go for the X800XT, but it runs hot...

 

[BossBorot]

The 7600gt is not worth the price premium IMO

the x800xt is nice because it has a tv tuner however it will lose to the 6800gs when you unlock, which you can easy as pie, the 4 extra pipelines and vertex shader on the 6800gs.

If you want a tv tuner as well get the x800xt

if you want an ATi card but not a tuner as well get the x800gto by sapphire it has the same core as the x800xl and is flashable to 16 pipes.

If you want the best performer out of the bunch the 6800gs should perform the best as it has more overclocking room then the r430 core based x800gto, that is provided that the unlocked pipelines are not damaged.

Also you should be able to push the x800gto past the speeds that the x800xt AIW would give.

edited for adding link to x800gto

 

[MadMan007]

The 'price premium' of the 7600GT is a whole $10-15 if you're buying new.
It has a good advantage over previous generatoin cards - it's quiet, runs cool and has low power draw. It's roughly equal to a 6800GT/ultra which is what you get with an unlocked 6800gs (give or take a small amount depending on clocks of the 6800 and the specific program used for comparison.)

The x800's are good with current and near-future games, but again hot and more power draw. They lack SM3.0 though so unless a game is programmed tot ake advantage of SM2.0b some eyecandy would be missing - might not apply too much though because the cards aren't screamers to start.

The least expensive option would be buy a used 6800gs off ebay, or the x800GTO as linked above. Are all GTOs virtually guaranteed to unlock ok like the 6800?

I'm in the same boat so I've been looking around a lot I was going to get an x850pro unlocked but the deal fell through and it's hot, high power draw so I was hesitant anyway. Taht was an important consideration since I didn't want to buy a new psu if I didn't need to. I'm not a 3D game junkie so I'll just hold out until more vendors get it and prices might drop a touch. In the longer run I plan on using it in my rig as an HTPC so it's advantages are worth the small price premium to me.

 

[BossBorot]

The 'price premium' of the 7600GT is a whole $10-15 if you're buying new.

The price premium is for agp only not pci-e. The agp card just came out, and he wants an agp card, and thus is more expensive for now.

The least expensive option would be buy a used 6800gs off ebay, or the x800GTO as linked above. Are all GTOs virtually guaranteed to unlock ok like the 6800?

The 6800gs is the way to go if it can be found cheap and he is willing to accept used cards or pay more for a new one.

Some x800gto's unlock others dont its up to the manufacturer what core and pcb to use. That is why I linked the sapphire models which will unlock.

 

[MadMan007]

I know, I was referring to the fact that the links he provided for brand new prices put the 7600GT agp at $10-15 more than the other cards*, which given that it's still within his pricerange shouldn't be an automatic deal-breaker. It's definitely not a cut and dry answer as each card has it's own advantages.

*aside from the GTO.

 

[Shell]

Woah, that X800GTO is only $99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814102609R

I say get that and spend the money you saved on additional cooling!

 

[fireandice]

go with the 6800GS

 

[MadMan007]

Used, yes, a 6800gs second hand is great. The x800GTO is also a great bang-for-buck option. 6800gs vs 7600GT NEW is another story, the price difference is <$15 so it becomes a matter of whether the 7600GT advantages are worth that small amount extra to the individual.

 

[jiggamanjb]

get the 6800gs. i've never heard a complaint about it and it is the best bang for your buck.

 

[doublejack]

Here's another option -7800GS I bought one and am very happy overall. It's about $30 more than the others you are looking at, but it's the king of the AGP hill - if any of these cards will last you a year and/or run games at max settings this is the one. It's newer gen then the 6800GS so it will clock higher, you don't have to worry about unlocking anything, it's got more pipes than the 7600GT, and even though they are recertified I found mine to be pristine. If you end up getting a card from newegg that's the one I recommend.

Of course, if you can score a used 6800GS on the cheap that's a fine option too. But it's nice to get a nearly $300 top-of-the-line card for $200.

 

[MadMan007]

7600GT > 7800GS:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=2031&cid=3&pg=1

 

[Exfoliate]

Wow, thanks for all the input guys, I think I'm no longer concidering the X800XT's as they are pretty darn hot and while it's a great value the GTO isn't exactly in the same league as the others judging by the tests I've seen. The GS is really showing mixed results, sometimes it seems awesome other times, namely that last link to hardwarezone.com show's that it gets creamed. Granted this is a non overclocked card without it's pipes unlocked but even so it probably wouldn't surpass the others am I right? Tomshardware seemed to look at the GS as slightly worse than a GT. The 7600GT is looking very sweet now, but it's not unlockable though right?
I guess what I'm asking is would the GS I linked (with it's pretty low clockspeeds) unlocked to 16/6 be faster than a 7600GT? I'm taking the 7800GS out of the picture as while a good card, seem expensive for something apparently as fast as a 7600GT judging from the tests I've seen.
Thanks again.

 

[MadMan007]

Once unlocked a 6800gs is the same exact thing as a 6800GT/ultra and exactly where it falls depends on final clockspeeds. So you can use those as estimates for how an unlocked and oc'd 6800gs would work.

 

[Exfoliate]

Thanks man, in that case it's nothing spectacular as the 6800Ultra/GT are showing their age and really struggle in some current games. This isn't to say that the 7600GT or whatever is going to blaze though everthing but it seems like the best buy. Any idea of how it'd do in Oblivion with most things maxxed?

 

[MadMan007]

I don't think either one is very capable in Oblivion, it's by far the most GPU-stressing game out there. The first review I was able to find where they ran it on a 7600GT was this one: http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTEwMCwzLCw1MA==

 

[Exfoliate]

Shoot I guess not, thanks for the heads up. I've seen other results and apparently with everthing cranked and in a outdoor setting even a X1900XTX only gets about 34fps (and this is on 1024x768 which is really disheartening). The nice thing is the 7600GT fares a bit better than the X1800GTO which is kind of neat.

 

[doublejack]

7600GT > 7800GS:
http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?id=2031&cid=3&pg=1

Only at stock speeds. Taken from the same article you linked:

The Leadtek [7600GT] did not fare too well for overclocking, as we only managed a minor boost of 20MHz for both its core and memory frequencies. Compared to the PCIe versions that we have seen, this Leadtek AGP card had the worst tolerance for overclocking. It is difficult to assess where the bottleneck lies since this AGP card is paired with a bridge chip, which directly affects overclocking if it cannot handle the increase in clock speeds. Hopefully, this won't be symptomatic of all such AGP bridged cards as its stock performance lead over the 7800 GS is quickly lost through poor overclocking bandwidth. This slight overclocking would also not provide sufficient gain in frame rates to make a difference for the gamers.

When you OC both the 7600GT and the 7800GS, the 7800GS is substantially faster. Mostly this is due to the fact that while they are virtually equal at stock, the 7600GT is a very poor overclocker while the 7800GS OC's extremely well. But the 7800GS is in fact faster than *any* AGP card out there. Page 9 of your linked review includes this graphic

Like I said in my first post, if someone is looking for the best AGP has to offer and hoping to get another year out of their current rig, then the 7800GS is the answer.

 

[fireandice]

those numbers are off my bfg 6800gs is hitting 5649. the gs is the way to go since its very close to the gs but coust about $100 less. I got the BFG 6800gs.

you can unlock the bfg with a little luck and have a card thats faster than the 6800gt. since the core will be 370/1050 vr 350/1000 i got a 2500+ sempron and im getting 12735in 03 5698 in 06 and 2613 in 06 and im really shure this card can do well more than that. so if you go with a bfg 6800gs then your results should be close to mine or better. i considered all those cards and the only one i would take of over my gs would be the 7800gs but not for another $100+ i'll just oc my 6800 a little and i should be able to match it.

the 6800gt/ultras are great cards and not showing there age just yet. they can still give the agp top dog the 7800gs a run for its money and there not beat to bad and even beat some of the new agp cards. the 6800gs is still a solid card and i dont see it dieing off totaly untill DX10 comes out. i dont regret buying mine and if i had to do it all over again i'll would buy it again.

 

[doublejack]

those numbers are off my bfg 6800gs is hitting 5649. the gs is the way to go since its very close to the gs but coust about $100 less. I got the BFG 6800gs.

First, absolute numbers will vary based on the machine used for testing. So if your 6800GS is getting 5649 then the 7800GS would be getting 6000+ on your rig.

Secondly, the retail price difference between the 6800GS and 7800GS is $100. However, you can get a recertified 7800GS for $200 from newegg here So it's more like a $30-40 dollar difference. IMO, it was worth a little extra to get a guaranteed 16 pipe card that overclocks better (110nm vs. 130nm GPU) and is faster. Everyone has to make their own evaluation though.

you can unlock the bfg with a little luck and have a card thats faster than the 6800gt. since the core will be 370/1050 vr 350/1000 i got a 2500+ sempron and im getting 12735in 03 5698 in 06 and 2613 in 06 and im really shure this card can do well more than that. so if you go with a bfg 6800gs then your results should be close to mine or better. i considered all those cards and the only one i would take of over my gs would be the 7800gs but not for another $100+ i'll just oc my 6800 a little and i should be able to match it.

the 6800gt/ultras are great cards and not showing there age just yet. they can still give the agp top dog the 7800gs a run for its money and there not beat to bad and even beat some of the new agp cards. the 6800gs is still a solid card and i dont see it dieing off totaly untill DX10 comes out. i dont regret buying mine and if i had to do it all over again i'll would buy it again.

I agree that the 6800GS is a solid card. I seriously considered buying one last month when I got the 7800GS. It truly is in the same class as the 6800GT/Ultra, assuming the pipes unlock clean - which they do most of the time.