Lots of questions about a new gaming laptop.

[deathstar13]

I didnt mention the model in the title as i dont want people skipping over this since they dont know anything about this model specifically, Ill take any and all help and advice as alot is just general questions.

The laptop is more of a Desktop replacement at 17.3" screen and 8lbs of lead in it.
Its the Toshiba Qosmio X775-3DV80 3D
http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/pdet.to?poid=2000010961

Some specs:
Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM processor
Genuine Windows 7 Home Premium (64-bit)*
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 560M (3D vision)*
1.5GB GDDR5 discrete graphics memory
8GB DDR3 1333MHz memory
1.25TB: 500GB (7200rpm, Hybrid 4GB Serial ATA) + 750GB (5400rpm, Serial ATA)
Blu-ray Disc™ Rewriteable (RE) and DVD SuperMulti drive with Labelflash®*
17.3" widescreen
FHD TruBrite® TFT LED Backlit Display (3D ready, 120Hz)*
1920x1080, 16:9 aspect ratio, Supports 1080p content*
NVIDIA® 3D VISION™ Kit (glasses, USB 2.0 type A to 5-pin mini-B cable)

It has pretty impressive specs to say the least, Great for the money even tho it was expensive, It could have cost alot more.

Generally id never spend this much on a laptop, But ive found over the years that if you dont get the parts in it when you buy it you most likley cant upgrade much later so your stuck with your decisions for the life of the LT.

Ill try and number questions when they come up as i type, And i hope you dont mind ill give my impressions of the LT as i go also.
My only upgrades i can see me doing is going too 16GB of ram soon and possibly a full on 128GB SSD drive to add with the 7200rpm sata Hybrid drive with 4GB of SSD built in. Even tho it holds two hard drives i dont think it can do raid that i know of. But i guess i need to go threw the Bios soon.
Past that I cant see much else being done, But i suppose i can upgrade the video card if id like. But im sure that would be untested teriitory in if its possible as im sure not many people will attempt that, But it runs any game now on all maxxed out settings.

1. First question is about the 3D system, Ive found it to be amazing. But has a learning curve also. It seems to upconvert non 3D games so far, But ive had no luck with Netflix and streaming content. I dont have any DVD's or BlueRays on hand to test, But will these upconvert like the games do even tho they arent 3D? I have some im gonna try and borrow and test, But i figured its worth asking.

2. At what point would you see that i need to invest in more ram? When i start going over 50% of the installed ram being used consistently or wait for 75% to be normal?

3. How much priority would you put on swapping out the second HDD and putting a good SSD on it and use the 7200/SSD hybrid as storage?

4. Overclocking and underclocking, Ive always been a user of RMclock. But it dont work on the Intel® Core™ i7-2670QM
I did get temp info for the CPU with "RealTemp" sofware, But it gives me no control of the cpu. Is there anything out there that may work on undervolting and overclocking of the i7-2670QM cpu?

5. CPU throttling, In realtemp you can test the cpu cores with 8 copies of prime 95 all at once, But ive found it to hit 80c on the cores and im almost positive it starts throttling the processor to bring temps down as ive seen the MHZ drop as low as 1600mhz.
Ive got an old laptop cooler under it, But i ordered a new much better one and an extra large 120mm fan to add also in an attempt to get things as low as possible temp wise. Im really reluctant to go in and take it apart so i can look at improving the cpu cooling with better compounds and adjustments.
Granted there is NO way that in normal use i would be able to run all 8 threads at 100% for any amount of time.
Any advice here on this one?

I can see threw CPUZ that it undervolts all on its own down too .78v to the CPU.

6. GPU control and overclocking software anywhere? Its the NVidia GTX560M card.

Over all i LOVE the laptop, Its almost over the top especially while gaming in 3D and everything is almost instantaneous when you do any opening or closing and work due to all the power it has. An SSD drive would make it insane tho so ill eventually be looking into that.

7. Speaking of SSD, I see they have SATAIII 3gb and 6gb buss speeds, How can i tell if i can take advantage of the 6gb speeds or not? Is that mainly on desktops with fast expandability slots that mine wont have?

I think thats it, Id appreciate any help or advice you have,

 

[snowbrd]

1. I don't believe it will upconvert movies and dvds. I believe you have to get a movie that is capable of playing at dvd.
2. You've got 8gb of ram there. Most people don't go over 4 generally so by the time you start hitting 80-90% of ram usage should you consider upgrading,
3. The whole hybrid thing and ssd is only when you actually want to upgrade. I haven't personally used the hybrid but it seems like a good design unless you really need the speed of a full ssd.
4 You are generally not going to want to overclock anything as it will output more heat and power etc.
5. I would suggest you to look up some guides on how to take it apart and redo the TIM so you can get some more oomph without the heat. Cooler master makes an expensive but epic cooler for the 17" laptops.
6) refer to 4.
7) You won't be able to get the sata 6gb speeds as the laptops mobo doesn't support 6gb sata speeds. You'll end up with 3gb speeds.

These are my answers and I believe they are mostly correct but don't completely take my advice.

 

[deathstar13]

Most of the answers sound good to me.
The hybrid HDD seems quick enough, But windows experience ratings don't give it much credit. But ill see as i go along as i know i dont need faster, I just may "Want" faster.

Ive read it would upconvert dvd and BlueRay, But i still have to test it. It did work on a game im Beta testing and Skyrim.

If i can get the temps down i may go inside, But i really don't want too. Taking such an expensive laptop would be completely nerve racking. But ill look at the Cooler Master website and see what they make for this series.

I noticed i have my 10 year Badge, So ill admit im rather experienced at cooling. But again its a $2k laptop and taking a brand new one apart scares the carp out of me no matter how much experience and knowledge i may have. Mabey if i had spent all of those years constantly inside pc's id have more confidence.

Like now and how i need to ask for advice as ive been away and things change so freaken fast you cant even blink around here.

 

[snowbrd]

http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master...03E2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1328487719&sr=8-6
Thats the one i'm talking about.
Taking apart laptops are a lot simpler then you think. Unless you are speaking about the asus g53 series which are REALLY complicated to take apart.

 

[deathstar13]

Wow, I really took you way to literal there.
After some quick searches i found this: http://odm.coolermaster.com/business.php?category_id=2
I was like, HMMM i wonder if they list one for the Qosimo? lol

But im already on that wave lenth tho, I have an old Targus cooler with two fans that suck heat from the bottom, It helps but not nearly enough.
So a few days ago i ordered these two items:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834997872
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835103078

Im gonna replace one of the 80mm fans with the 140mm one and most likely switch the power over to a wall wart as im afraid it may smoke a USB port. But it looked like a tame enough fan for its high-ish CFM.

Ive taken apart several laptops many times cleaning them as my house is full of smokers and dust so ive had to do Windex optimies many times on cooling systems. Even did a mobo replacement, That smoked 2 months later. But it was with my young daughter so who really knows what killed it.

If the fans dont work out i guess ill have to go it and have some spare copper sheets on hand and plenty of thermal goo.
One thing as a former hardcore OC'r was temps and cooling, And i cant stand high temps and throttling is a NO-NO in ALL my books.

Ill cut holes in the bottom of the case before i let it throttle all the time. Sounds dumb from a guy who just said hes afraid to take his laptop apart, But i do have my ethics.

For a quad cpu and 8 threads to throttle playing a game is a serious issue imo. Im almost positive more than half the cpu sat dormant during that time.

Realtemp testing with 8 instances of prime 95 will have it to its knee's at 1600ghz in under 10 minutes. I stopped it there as i saw it throttle back so far it was staying in the high 60's then.

I also get a temp reading off my NVidia GTX560M which ive not watched or tested, But i have faith its just as bad also.

I know i asked about OC'ing, But how about software to undervolt? I know RMclock wont work with this setup.

I appreciate the help!

 

[thobel]

1. I don't believe it will upconvert movies and dvds. I believe you have to get a movie that is capable of playing at dvd.
2. You've got 8gb of ram there. Most people don't go over 4 generally so by the time you start hitting 80-90% of ram usage should you consider upgrading,
3. The whole hybrid thing and ssd is only when you actually want to upgrade. I haven't personally used the hybrid but it seems like a good design unless you really need the speed of a full ssd.
4 You are generally not going to want to overclock anything as it will output more heat and power etc.
5. I would suggest you to look up some guides on how to take it apart and redo the TIM so you can get some more oomph without the heat. Cooler master makes an expensive but epic cooler for the 17" laptops.
6) refer to 4.
7) You won't be able to get the sata 6gb speeds as the laptops mobo doesn't support 6gb sata speeds. You'll end up with 3gb speeds.

These are my answers and I believe they are mostly correct but don't completely take my advice.

The intel HM67 Chipset for laptops does support sata 6GB speeds. I get 950+ writes on my laptop with 2 Corsair 120GB GT's in raid 1

http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/chipsets/mainstream-chipsets/mobile-chipset-hm67.html

 

[deathstar13]

Yup, Its the HM67 chipest.
That will definetly make the latest round of SSD drives a good deal even tho i dont think i have the ability to use raid, I better check my bios as i never been in there yet. I may have raid and not even know it.
But i suppose that should show up in the device manager even with no drivers installed.

 

[snowbrd]

Oh look at that. Im outdated in mobo of laptops. Mah bad. Told you to take my advice wi th a grain of salt.

 

[deathstar13]

Your advice is good, Just a small slip was all. Way easy to do when your dealing with numbers on everything and trying memorize them.

If im not mistaken i saw super fast SSD drives that could actually saturate the 3gb SATA III and appeared to need the 6gb pipes to fully take advantage of its power, Does that sound right and familiar?

Im not in no big hurry as i just bought a ton of gaming equipment to get back started gaming so money is tight at least for another month.
I did check my Bios and i have no Raid ability, Which is fine as SSD alone is fast enough.

I really don't use much HDD space at all like most people, So even two HDD's are overkill so thats why id like to look at speed at this point. Id run the 128GB SSD on my OS and games and apps and the 7200rpm 4gb hybrid drive as storage.
Even tho its not raid O which i was always a big fan of i think this would be fast enough.

Ive still not found any under volting software, But anyone that know about any for this chipset and cpu id appreciate it. Ive looked threw intels softaware and it doesn't look hopefull as its all aimed at desktops. But i had one last one to try.

 

[snowbrd]

I'm not sure about the SSD question. It would seem that if they do then they're price would be quite expensive.

 

[thobel]

Yup, Its the HM67 chipest.
That will definetly make the latest round of SSD drives a good deal even tho i dont think i have the ability to use raid, I better check my bios as i never been in there yet. I may have raid and not even know it.
But i suppose that should show up in the device manager even with no drivers installed.

It does support raid. Ctrl i on boot will show up IF you have raid enabled in the bios. After clicking Ctrl i (at the right time) you get the raid configuration screen.

 

[deathstar13]

Ill have to look at it closer, But i saw the SSD HDD on newegg and mention of it being able to take advantage of the 6GB bandwith, Not enough to max it out but enough to max the 3GB standard sataIII out.

I checked the bios with no mention of raid in there, Took forever to guess the right combo to get in and ill be darned if i wasnt hitting so many F keys i dont even know which one worked! lol
But yeh, Ill try the raid bios you mentioned. Ive used raid 0 alot in the past, But ive been with one laptop the last 4 years there is alot i forget.

Even tho im out of the OC loop, I relearn quick.

I also came across the ThrottleStop program and like its abilities from the surface, I need to further research and learn it before using it and smoking my mainboard.

At least getting my cooling system setup will make things a ton better and make me not worry as much when using the program.

I love the i7 cpu, But they implement so many throttling controls on the cpu if you push it hard you loose half of your cpu's power.
But if i get the cooling fixed right id still use the program so when all 4 cores are working it doesn't allow it to down clock just because 4 cores are working. Thats dumb if your temps are fine.

Back on the raid, Im not even sure id use it if the SSD i saw is as fast as i imagine and raid 0 really is a hassle when you have a super fast HDD, But with the old slow 5400rpm drives back a few years ago, I live and died for raid 0.

I also found my 4 port usb hub which was powered at one time, I lost wall wart somewhere. But i really wanted a powered hub to run that new fan cooler as with two 80mm fans and one 140mm fan alone would burn a single usb port out imo.
I found a cell phone wart and opened the hub up and soldered the power wires to the hub so its fully powered now.

If you guys can keep coming back as id like to hear opinions on what im doing and catch me if im making a mistake, Any mistake can be massively expensive if i burn this new laptop up.

 

[snowbrd]

Haha agreed.
I feel so weird giving decennial a few tips here and there.

 

[JR23]

What power supply did it come with?

I ask because I had a Dell XPS16 two years ago, sold it 6 months back. Anyway that was supplied with a 90watt power adapter and when games got intensive it would drop like a stone. It was found to be a CPU power throttling issue between an i7-720QM and a Mobility Radeon 4670HD it didn't take long to eat up the power. If you unplugged the charger and turned off all power saving functions it would improve performance but discharge the batteries in about 30 minutes. Dell supplied replacement chargers for them of 110 watt to the people who were willing to send their old ones back in. I bought an Alienware 130 Watt charger and when they released the new bios it got some power from somewhere. Obviously then it got pretty damn hot but it didn't drop out like it had before. You could be playing at the best settings it would get away with at a comfortable 30-40fps and then soon as some water or intense physics came into view it would just die and drop to 10fps at best normaly 3-5. Totaly unplayable with input lag measurable on a calendar.

Also I just bought an M14X and put a hybrid drive in it which is totally sweet! If your going to go for two drives one being an SSD I cannot see the advantage of using a Hybrid drive as the secondary one. - http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=698991

 

[deathstar13]

Here is the power specs from the Toshiba website:

Power
AC Adapter
180W (19V x 9.5A) Auto-sensing,100-240V AC Adapter
Battery
Li-Ion (47Wh, 8-Cell)
Battery Life*
Up to 2.5 hours

http://us.toshiba.com/computers/laptops/qosmio/X770/X775-3DV80
They send a GIANT brick that weighs a TON.

Power doesn't seem to be an issue, And the only issue besides heat was my mouse having a "mushy" feeling during game play, But i found that to be the 3D system trying to keep up with the fast Logitech G9x mouse and the two separate images it displays to create the effects.
Slowing the mouse down half way helped alot and didn't affect game play.

Ive been a member here for 11 or so years, But that doesn't mean ive stayed active as my hobbies tend to move around. It usually picks up when i get a new laptop or PC and then i head here to learn how to make it better.
But i was in pretty deep with watercooling and even using those freezer cooly thingies that were big 6 years ago. I cant remember the name of it for the life of me, Even my freezer was a highley modified machine by a guy at Xtremesystems.

Ive been messing with the Throttle stop and ive found it to be not effective on my laptop as mine just throttles at the cpu when temps go up, That cant be gotten around and shouldn't be really.
So ill be focusing on the cooler and fans that should arrive today from Newegg.
If that isnt enough ill be going in for tim adjustments and fixes.

Ill read that link later today on the hybrid drive and ssd possibilities, I did run some atto tests and im doing 100/100 read/writes. Reads seem a little low but writes seem decent when many SSD's are just doing 170mb at least in the 3gb sataIII line, But when the 6GB bandwith is used it goes up drastically which should also work on mine as the chipset can do 6gb of bandwith on that bus.

 

[snowbrd]

Well I've got a asus g53 and they sent me a 2 pound brick. xD

 

[JR23]

Haha my Alienware shipped with a 150watt adapter and for saying it is actually quite compact and light. I bet the 240watt adapters supplied with the M17X are breeze-blocks in comparison to the bricks. 180watt sounds serious enough to me

 

[deathstar13]

hi everyone,
Im gonna give a large update as to the progress ive made and the changes ive done and the improvements that happened.
Ill also go threw questions 1-7 in the first post.

My Coolermaster cooling pad with 3x80mm fans showed up along with the 140mm low speed fan. The large 140mm fan fit rather well with the other 3 and i made my own 12v power supply out of an old wall wart.
It pushes 60cfm at 1k rpm and 12v with 16db and perfect for this, The other fans push more air than i expected and just as quiet.

With the use of ThrottleStop 4.0 ive been able to get 2.8ghz until i hit 79C on the cpu with 8 instances of prime 95 and then it clocks down too 2.4GHZ and it stays there. It stays in the mid and high 70's for extended runs at this speed and doesn't clock lower on all 8 threads.

Idle temps hand in the 40-45C range and is 5C lower than my old cooling pad.


1.
2D games and regular DVD's for the most part ive found all upconvert too 3D, I watched a 2D dvd of Avatar and it was pretty cool to say the least. All my games are 2D and all play in 3D also. The mouse issue was what was causing my gaming issue with the upconversion and high speed mouse and the double rendered image causing not so precise movements. Slowing the DPI down cleared that up.

2. When i see my ram at a constant 75% load ill consider upgrading, By then it should be cheap enough it wont hurt the pocket as much.

3. I still haven't read that hybrid article, But i will. My Atto testing showed 100/100GB read/write scores which aren't bad. But i think SSD 128 GB drives may be a decent improvement and about the only thing i could improve on the laptop internally except cooling.

4. ThrottleStop 4.0 is working well enough that it keeps my idle temps low and yet holds a high multiplier at full load.

5. Above kind of answers this mostly. Except when i do my first tear down and windex cleaning of the cooling system to get the dust and cigarette tar out ill redo the tim's and goop's.


6. The GPU is fast enough now and will run Skyrim at max/ultra settings, Ill try and adjust them later down the road if i start getting lag in new games.

7. In all indications the chipset will do 6GB SATAIII speeds so the SSD is still in the game, But im researching the benefits over this hybrid drive still.

So im a happy camper for an OC guy who is a stickler over small details, But ive mellowed as the years pass as i would have already redone the tims and goops by now a few years ago. But when a 2.2ghz will run 2.8 on all 8 threads until 80c which takes a few minutes on prime95 and then drops too 2.4ghz and doesn't go lower and wont go over 76c id say thats pretty good.
The better cooling pad sure made all the difference.

Thanks for all the help and if i run into any more questions ill be back, Im sure i may over the SSD drive.
Arent you glad im a Decennial asking questions now as you dont have to explain to me how things work and are done? lol
The knowledge is still in my head, Its just outdated from being away so long. I need a REAL OC rig, My micro heli hobby is slowing down so im in need of another hobby soon.

Thanks,
Don

 

[snowbrd]

Don't forget to get a can of compressed air. It'll help with dat dusty problemz

 

[deathstar13]

Oh yeh, I keep cans of that on hand at all times. Mainly for our Plasma and LCD large screen tv's. The Plasma uses 3 fans with its high power consumption and heat output and it gets pretty bad in there.
This laptop looks like it will be much more effective when compressed air is used on it due to the back sides more open slots compared to my older smaller Core 2 Duo laptop. I can only see one set of fins and one fan but several copper heat pipes most likely from the cpu and gpu and maybe even the chipset.

But once that tar and dust combine your only recourse is manual cleaning. I had some old Shin-Etsu from years ago but ill be darned if i can find it. I have several generic thermal goops i used in my flashlight hobby also, But ill buy some higher end stuff for when i do go in and redo the tims. Skimping on thermal goop when it MUST be done right is stupid to apply cheap goop and hope for the best.
I wish i could find someones guide who has taken this apart so id know if i need copper sheets for spacers when they used the thicker tim pads that suck so badly.

The temps now are nice and alot more stable with all the airflow it receives. 40c-43c at idle and web surfing, Gaming im not so sure about yet as i need to test that.
But i posted all the prime 95 run results which im rather happy with considering its the factory tims. 8 Threads at 2.4-2.5ghz even at max load and staying in the mid 70's C is good for stock untouched cooling imo.

I read the thread i was linked to on the hybrid drive but i didnt really see much info i was looking for like Atto tests and file transfers. But im gonna read up on some SSD and Hybrid drives today hopefully and then pick out an SSD in the 120-128GB range.
I dont care about capacity so the smaller 7200rpm hybrid drive handling my storage and the SSD running the OS and software should make it pretty darned fast.

I dont think ive ever used over 200GB in any pc in my life, I dont store much or keep collection or music. So speed is always my best bet.