New config. advice

[TELmo]

Hi everyone,
I need your help and your opinions...
My setup is old, +/-12 years, I don't want to remember

Except perhaps, the 3080-Ti (on 4k screen), the MVMe Samsung SSD 980 PRO 2TB (for the moment on a PCIe) and the power supply of course =)
As I already have the graphics card and a few other parts, I'm not too fussy about the price of each part unless if the price doubles!




Believe it or not, since I switched to SSDs (in the early days of SSDs...and recently the 3080 Ti) it has given me complete satisfaction until recently... X-Plane 12, and on other tasks. Normal you might say ...


1) I'd like a new configuration that's scalable over time, i.e. PCIe 5 Graphics/SSD MVme (I may already be saying something stupid here, correct me if you have to...!).


So, I went with this:

Motherboard:
1x ASRock X670E Taichi, Socket AM5 motherboard
€ 549,00

CPU:
AMD Ryzen 9 7900X3D, 4.4 GHz (5.6 GHz Turbo Boost) socket AM5 processor
€ 449,00

2) I'm a bit stuck on the RAM, 6000 being the sweet-spot from what I understand, correct me again...
The ASRock QVL says no worries for the G.Skill 32GB (2x16) 6000 CL:30/40....
But I can also get: 2x16GB 6000 30/38
F5-6000J3038F16GX2-TZ5NR, Trident Z NEO RGB, EXPO € 144,90
What do you think? I dare ? no turning back possible in the shop I think...
Is it really worth it?


3) CPU cooler, now I'm a noob +/-. But, to have something quiet.... (with the above configuration) 120 W for the CPU,
Should I go for a bigger heatsink and keep the fans to a minimum, or should I have 2 fans running like crazy? (I'm sure you get the idea)
4) Here again, the question arises: wouldn't 140 mm be better on the radiator ? If it exists... !?
At the moment I'm using a Noctua DH-15... =) to give you an idea ...

That's what I was thinking, now there's nothing to stop me changing or even going down the custom WC loop, if I'm disappointed with the AIOs.

Cooler:
1x be quiet! Pure Loop 2 360mm, Watercooling
€ 139,90



And the frame... still to be defined.


I'm sorry in advance if certain terms seem confusing,
But on the whole I think it's correct

 

[Blaylock]

Personally, I would go with 6400Mhz ram. I'm a huge fan of G.Skill, but there are other great brands out there as well (Teamgroup, ADATA, Corsair, etc). For the cooler, your Noctua NH-D15 is still one of the kings. Noctua was offering a free adapter for AM5 motherboards but even if you can't get it free anymore, I think they're only a couple dollar US, so probably the same in Euro.

 

[Woomack]

Noctua has an AM5 offset mount, which is supposed to improve temps a bit (it depends on the CPU used). However, the cooler may not fit on some motherboards as it will be a couple of mm "lower." It shouldn't be a problem on X670E Taichi as it has some more space between the CPU and the first PCIe slot and no tall heatsinks on the way.

Noctua releases offset mounting for improved cooling performance on AMD AM5 processors

Designed in Austria, Noctua's premium cooling components are renowned for their superb quietness, exceptional performance and thoroughgoing quality.

noctua.at

I wouldn't spend money on AIO coolers when there is already NH-D15.

I would get a 2x24GB kit just because I can easily reach 32GB RAM when I run more browser tabs and 2 games (one run in the background for most of the time). It's not a must, as most people won't use 32GB, but since it's an upgrade and it is supposed to last for longer, then why not get some more?
Kingston has pretty good 6000-6400 CL32 kits. 7200-7600 should work too.
Most low-latency 6000-6400 kits or anything above 7200 use the same memory chips, so it only matters if you want to run it at XMP/EXPO or can play with manual settings.

 

[TELmo]

Thanks for your ideas!

So, 6400 would be a better fit, taking tight CL beats?
I'd like to start with EXPO in any case. I'm not very keen on repeated testing and rebooting (but I admire those who do!) =)
Take away the doubt, when I see qlv the Asrock, the capacities are per strip (you do 2x) to get the total, right!?
I like the idea of 48 GB for the future, because my career will be evolving soon, I'll have to create a bit more power point =) and nothing says that I won't start using other means of production, even if I'm far from needing it at the moment.
But you're talking about chips, I've noticed that too, I've read on other posts here that it's a lottery... what's the difference then between A/M die?





I've been looking for the cooling since my last post.
I'd got the wrong idea that the WC was quieter, it's more aesthetic surely. But when I'm doing office work, I'd rather not hear it, that's the most important thing for me. That it blows when I play, I understand... a 3080-Ti blows quite a lot, even in Ventus 3x, but in office use it stops.


Yes, the NH-D15 is still a good air-cooler for the CPU, but we can do better. According to this test , the Dark Rock Pro 5 beats the NH-D15 in silence!
So I'm thinking it might be a good idea to change too.

Above all, I'm trying to get something homogeneous in silence.
And when you need power, you can get it.
In my opinion, a 79000X3D should be able to handle games as well as office work. All the while containing a low power dissipation compared to other CPUs of 170 W and above.

Edit:
Is this type of air cooling sufficient for 120W?
When I see the graph, at 130W we're not far from 90°C ....

 

[TELmo]

I'm falling off my chair...!

Only the 7800X3D has 2 chips.
All the others have 3 die.
From what I've seen and read (info: 1 year ago) for "those with 3 die" half of them are twiddling their thumbs in games, but the worst thing is that it's the Windows Game Bar that decides which core should start!? (fact or fiction ?)

If I fall back on a 7800x3d instead of a 7900X3D as planned, won't I need the "game bar" for it to work properly?



I've also read that the system boot takes an incredibly long time. WTF?
Still relevant?
The more I look for information on CPUs, the more questions I ask myself
Your opinions are appreciated.

 

[Woomack]

Any CPU that you pick will handle both games and regular work.
7800X3D has a 5.05GHz clock, but most cores will run at this clock for most of the time (as long as the CPU is under 85°C). This CPU is great for everything as it runs cool, is optimal for games, and with 16 threads at a higher clock, will handle every other task.

The 7800X3D uses 85-90W max. AMD specifies 120W, but I'm not sure why it's so high. I guess it's just a suggestion about the cooler required to keep the CPU below Tj under full load (Tj is the max temperature that won't cause the clock to drop).
In short, if you use NH-D15, then you can lower the fans' speed to keep it silent and still run at its max clock.

Don't waste money on another cooler. NH-D15 is perfect for everything.

The first system boot takes a couple of seconds. New BIOS releases make it a bit faster. On the other hand, it's not a problem if you wait 10-15 seconds. It takes much longer when you start the PC with new RAM or after clearing CMOS. Depending on the motherboard it may even take 2-3 minutes.

Hynix A-die = 16GB and 32GB modules; Hynix M-die (new, but you won't find old M-die anymore) is in 24GB or 48GB modules. Both overclock are almost the same, and both are used in similar memory kits, just different capacities.

It's not guaranteed that you will be able to run RAM at 1:1 at 6400. A safer bet is 6000 as it always works at 1:1. If you pick any X3D CPU, then it won't make a big difference. For some reason, memory bandwidth on these CPUs is quite limited and pushing RAM higher isn't helping much.
Everything 6000-6400 CL30-32 will be good enough. If you get 6400 but it won't be stable, then you can always set manually 6200 or 6000 with enabled EXPO/XMP. It also doesn't matter much if it's XMP or EXPO as most, if not all, motherboards that support EXPO also support XMP. On all kits that I remember, the timings in EXPO and XMP were exactly the same.

 

[Flamethrower1972]

Personally, I would go with 6400Mhz ram. I'm a huge fan of G.Skill, but there are other great brands out there as well (Teamgroup, ADATA, Corsair, etc). For the cooler, your Noctua NH-D15 is still one of the kings. Noctua was offering a free adapter for AM5 motherboards but even if you can't get it free anymore, I think they're only a couple dollar US, so probably the same in Euro.

I agree I have been using G skill for a long time and I have never gone wrong. That cooler should do just fine.

 

[Woomack]

It's hard to pick bad RAM from currently available options. Almost everything marked for gaming uses 2 Hynix ICs, and if you are unlucky, you will get one of 2 Micron ICs. It's easy to check what is inside as Hynix A = 16/32GB modules, Hynix M = 24/48GB modules, and everything at tight timings out of the box or everything 7200+ is 100% Hynix. Every "gaming" memory kit that I tested in the last 10-12 months uses Richtek PMIC (the best for OC with the widest compatibility). In short, it's hard to make bad RAM from these few popular components. Every RAM nowadays has a lifetime warranty. The main difference is the price, aesthetics, and whether or not it has RGB illumination.

Regarding the cooler, you will be surprised how the 7800X3D acts. Under full load (AVX), the voltage drops and is cooler than in mixed-load tests or games. Here are my results from the ASSASSIN IV comparison - everything at auto settings:




Assume that the NH-D15 is a bit better than the ASSASSIN IV or NH-U12A. You can also lower the fan speed to ~800-1k RPM and keep the CPU under 85°C.

 

[67Elco]

I have to agree as I have owned a NH-D15 for years...there is no plausible reasoning to search for a better air cooler. Lower your fan speed and it will have minimal impact on temps under normal usage.

 

[Flamethrower1972]

I have to agree as I have owned a NH-D15 for years...there is no plausible reasoning to search for a better air cooler. Lower your fan speed and it will have minimal impact on temps under normal usage.

He!! I had a D14 and it was great.

 

[TELmo]

Thanks already to @Woomack for these explanations! For useful

I agree with everything you said about RAM.
My first PC assembly 25 years ago... RAM "no name" (=problem on 1st day)
Then my second RAM Geil installation... Wep it did the job at first, but gave me errors on 1 of 2 strip after few years.
And my last one here, since 12/13 years G.skill no problem at all =)
A company that gives a lifetime guarantee, "bah"... is that they are certain and they know their products.
Hence my preference from the outset in this new adventure.

Thanks for reassuring me about the temperatures and skill cooling.

I wonder if it's not an NH-D14 that I have, today it's the NH-D15 replacing it. No big difference I think, except perhaps the fans? (an idea how to find out? is it marked somewhere on the beast? )

Hence another question, because I remember having speed adapters (small resistor in series) in the wiring.

And if I remember correctly it is not possible to adjust the fans and make regulated temperature curves.
Now, the speed is fixed with a small potentiometer for adjustment in my case.
Does this depend solely on my MB? (it's so old that this didn't even exist at the time).

I imagine that on the new MB, I'll remove the potentiometer and connect directly to the motherboard... and then I'll be able to do my curves!

I apologise in advance for the dust.

 

[Woomack]

Hence another question, because I remember having speed adapters (small resistor in series) in the wiring.

And if I remember correctly it is not possible to adjust the fans and make regulated temperature curves.
Now, the speed is fixed with a small potentiometer for adjustment in my case.
Does this depend solely on my MB? (it's so old that this didn't even exist at the time).

I imagine that on the new MB, I'll remove the potentiometer and connect directly to the motherboard... and then I'll be able to do my curves!

On a new motherboard, all you need is a Y cable to make both fans work at the same speed. On ASRock, you can set it in BIOS or Windows software, but I recommend setting it in BIOS and not installing the software as it adds processes running in the background, and you won't really need it.

I also had one issue in BIOS but with ASRock B650E PG ITX. I don't know if the same happens on other ASRock motherboards. The issue was that I had to raise maximum Tj as when it was at auto with 7800X3D CPU, then once the CPU was reaching 89°C (it could be a 1 second spike, maybe wrong sensor reading), the CPU fan was going up to 100% speed. Once I set Tj limit to 100 or 105°C ( I don't remember exactly. Then, there was no issue anymore. It's because, for some reason, on my motherboard, max Tj was forcing 100% fan speed regardless of the fan curve settings. You probably won't have that, but if you do, then you already know how to solve it in an easy way.

 

[TELmo]

You're going to say that "I'm the only one who knows which one will suit me best" (... A bit like a woman!) =)


But how do you feel about these 2 brands (Asus and GB) on the X670E, compared to the AsRock Taichi x670E ?

I mean / bios update / compatibility / tracking .... ?

ASRock X670E Taichi vs Asus ROG Strix X670E-E Gaming WiFi vs Gigabyte Aorus X670E Master | Motherboard comparison

What is the difference between Asus ROG Strix X670E-E Gaming WiFi and ASRock X670E Taichi, Gigabyte Aorus X670E Master? Find out which is better and their overall performance in the motherboard ranking.

versus.com

 

[TELmo]

I think... not to bad...for the "little" update after more that 10 year

 

[TELmo]

No need for 3 PCIe...

It's the same thing for €80 less:

 

[EarthDog]

How much is the taichi lite? That would be my midrange choice.

 

[TELmo]

How much is the taichi lite? That would be my midrange choice.

The B650E Lite is 339€ and the Taichi b650E 449€.

What bothers me a bit is that the B650 is a bit more for AM4 even though it's AM5 compatible.
The X670E could have more M2, a bit more future-proof ?
Even if for the moment M2 in PCie v5.0 is not really good according to the tests compared to PCIe v4.0.
That's why I'm getting a second 980 Pro, because I've already got the first one.

If in the future the M2s in PCIe 5.0 become really good, I'll put the two 980s in PCIe 4 and a new one (990?) in PCIe 5.0.

Asus arrives with a nice RAM QVL of 8000, compare to ASRock they are a little further away. Although for the moment 6400 seems to be the maximum with the 7000 series.

So that's how I see it:
After this new update, I'll wait a few more years, I'll switch to Zen5 on this motherboard with other RAM a bit faster.
Between the 2 I'll certainly replace the graphics card with a PCie 5 to come.

Does this make sense to you?

 

[EarthDog]

Does this make sense to you?

Sort of. Lol.

What bothers me a bit is that the B650 is a bit more for AM4 even though it's AM5 compatible.

What does that mean? B650 will work no differently than x670 with am5.

The taichi lite is one of if not the most robust board for the price. Same flagship-class hardware as the taichi, less on the appearance. That's it. Flagship motherboard but doesn't have the same aesthetic. Better power delivery, same/better audio.

Asus arrives with a nice RAM QVL of 8000, compare to ASRock they are a little further away.

The amount of tweaking to reach 8000 on amd, to me, isn't worth the time, money, or effort. Grab some ddr5 6000-6400 with the lowest CL and call it a day. If you want to upgrade to faster ram down the line, am5 will likely be better in that respect, but, imo, your choice shouldn't be made with max ram speed in mind. If you're lucky the sweetspot may jump to ddr5 7000 (guess), which both boards easily handle.

 

[TELmo]

Obviously, we don't have a crystal ball. But as the problem with RAM speeds is mainly at CPU level, I'm thinking that the 9000 series could solve the problem.
Thank you for your analysis and your advice, it's very pertinent

 

[EarthDog]

But as the problem with RAM speeds is mainly at CPU level, I'm thinking that the 9000 series could solve the problem.

I wouldnt hold my breath. I wouldnt make meager max ram speed differences a make or break for a motherboard. You're getting reasonable speeds now and "a bit" faster later in your own words... something the overall better board, taichi lite, can easily handle... and for significantly less money.

About the only reason I'd get that asus over a taichi lite is m.2 socket count or maybe appearance. Otherwise, it's a no brainer to me.

Keep us updated.