Okay, asking another PSU question

[DocGiggs]

This has more then likely been asked before a million times and I have also read through about a dozen posts but none of them adequetly seem to answer my concerns. Okay, maybe they have been but I need a picture drawn with all the dots but I'm not afraid to admit that. Anyhow, here goes everything.

I have decided to build a new computer again since my last one. My original comp was as follows....

Enlight 7237 case
Abit KT7 board
AMD Tbird 1 Ghz
256 pc133 mushkin ram
20gb 7200 rpm maxtor HDD
Geforce 2 Pro
toshiba 12x dvd rom
LG 12x8x32x cdrw
sb live! value
netgear 10/100 card
d-link 802.11b wireless 22mbp card
viking 56K modem (hey I was moving around alot so had alot of options to connect to other computers with)
1x120mm generic server fan mounted
2x80mm case fans
my taisol CGK76 (one still rated for xp 2600+ procs) with it's quite slim line 80mm fan


My enlight 7237 originally came with an old 300w sparkle PSU that I thought I upgraded to a 400w el-cheapo PSU a couple years back. Each one seems to work fine with the current set up above (which btw I need to sell off soon). Only problem I find with both is that my USB ports when I run both at the same time have some power problems. If I remove some of the add-on cards then I can use both ports again with only mild sputtering. While this setup still works, I'm looking to finally make the next leap and have so far ordered these parts....

Enermax Diamond Black case with acryllic blue side panel and UV sensitive 80mm side fan
5x80 NMB 18cfm 16dba case fans
thermaltake copper orb northbridge chipset cooler with tin coating
amd xp 1800+ (will look to overclock this sucker)
asus a7n8x delux board
leadtek geforce 4 ti 4600
hercules fortissimo III 7.1
toshiba 16x dvd rom
lite-on 48x24x48x cdrw
80gb 7200rpm special edition 8mb buffer maxtor
2x512mb pc3200 corsair
slk-800 with a thermaltake 9 "coolmod" 80mm fan that does 75cfm with 4800 rpm
2x UV cold cathodes on a single dual inverter
and various case modding crap that doesn't have anything to do with the power
usb logitech navigator duo keyboard/mouse (for free!)
usb 2.0 canoscanner
might also throw in my wireless ethernet card but will mostly stick with the onboard lan output provided on the board


Anyhow, I am running a bit low on my budget to say to least even with all the great deals I got for the above stuff. I was hoping to see if maybe my el-cheapo 400w will cut the mustard and this way I can sell my old rig with the 300w PSU. Problem is, the more and more I look it and do my research, the more afraid I am. I don't have any documention on the old 400 and I know the old 300 doesn't put out more then 300 either (it IS an older sparkle). I am unsure as how to correctly test my 400w and see how well it does actually perform. I want to test it in a safer environment then my actual rig while running. Or can I tell by reading the strange heiroglyphics on the side that are suppose to pass for documentation for my PSU? I see these numbers under color labels and some wattage numbers but I can't really make heads or tails out of it. Anyone got any good info as to what I can do with this thing? Or should I count it as a nice paper weight?

If so, I was then looking into buying a power supply with some room for expandibility without busting my wallet at the seems. These are the power supplies I've been looking at so far, from cheapest to ... ugh I am going to pay what? (at least these are the best prices I could find)

allied true 450w .... $46
fortron/sparkle 350w .... $48
thermaltake pure 420w .... $58
raidmax true 400w .... $60
fortron/sparkle 400w .... $69
raidmax true 500w .... $70
FMI compusa brand 500w .... $79
antec truepower 430w .... $80
fortron/sparkle 460w .... $85

I have a feeling just about any of these will meet with my power needs but... I'm also planning on upgrading. Adding a baybus, some more blowhole 120mm fans, dvd-decoder card, anotther 80gb HDD for a raid setup and then the eventual upgrades over the next few years as prices come down for things like video cards or ram or even more storage. I also want to add more lights and other fun but pretty much frivolus things I want nonetheless. I want to get something to do me good now and in the future. If you guys think I can eek by now with my el-cheapo 400w that I haven't a clue as to the brand if it even has a brand name then I'll try. Chances are with it having I think power problems with my old rig, then again it could be any number of things going out, then I'm thinking I need to upgrade this as well.

From the above lists I'm thinking of either the allied true 450w (read a few reviews on different sites and they all said it was with 3% tolerance on the rails), the fortron 400w (I know these are usually suppose to be within 1% tolerance and usually put out something around 490w combined peak wattage), or the raidmax true 500w. Or do I need to look for even more then 500w with what all I'm expecting since I may end up powering even more usb devices in the future? Or better yet... is there a better and cheaper solution that I've completely overlooked or maybe a bad price I've found? I really need to know since I have almost everything but the actual case delivered and ready to go. Sooner I get my new rig setup the sooner I can get the old one sold off and get my pocket book back to normal again

 

[DocGiggs]

okay... looked a bit more and tried to figure out what this sticker on the side of my 400w psu means. When I look at more reputable ps's I can understand what they mean this thing is a mess with numbers. As far as I can tell.... the 3.3 and 5 combine for a max output wattage of 150. Seems a bit low to me I think. Also it says the 12v draws in 16amps at 350w output. That's the best I can figure out from this thing. Grrr.

 

[larva]

The problem with both your older supplies is not total output, but that the 5V SB line is inadequate. This has been beefed up on newer models as the need for it has risen by both the proliferation of standby modes and the increase USB device loads.

Get the Fortron version of the 350W FSP/Sparkle from www.directron.com. It is far and away the best value in power supplies. It will end all your power supply related concerns at the same time it saves you money. I can't state the point strongly enough, for those for whom value is important, there is no other choice.

If you haven't read this thread, make sure you do. There are many applicable points to your dilema presented, including the importance of the 5V SB line to USB function.

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=150384

Rest assured that your old 300W sparkle does meet its ratings, even though it is an older unit. The above thread is designed to point out that the total wattage rating is next to useless though, so we don't want to dwell on it too much. It is best used for identifying the power supply, not quantifying its output or suitablilty for any particular load. As time goes on previously unimportant concers like the USB load shape the design and performance built into the latest units. The current Fortron (FSP/Sparkle) are tanks, with incredible quality and output. Here is an recent user report of the benefits the 350W model brought to his rig:

http://forum.oc-forums.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=151654

 

[DocGiggs]

thanks larva... I read those threads and am looking a bit more closely at everything. I was leaning to the sparkle/fortron from newegg (it's a bit cheaper then directron right now after shipping and tax). Still, I might just save this 400w el-cheapo I have and maybe run a string of xmas lights or something Heh, something you said you wouldn't do I will find a use for this I hate giving garbage to others and I prefer to recycle as I can.

 

[DocGiggs]

okay got it narrowed down to these two based off what I read from your threads larva...

fortron 350w or
allied true 450w

Both come up the same but I did some digging on that particular allied. Also it has some a total of 230w for the +3.3v and the +5v.

you can see a picture with the side sticker here

http://www.newegg.com/app/Showimage...07-08.JPG/17-154-007-09.JPG/17-154-007-05.JPG

this is the only quality built psu ever built by allied/deer/foxconn ever. then again, I haven't tested it myself but this is from various user comments I can find scattered around the web. Anything else with a 230w total for the 3.3 and 5v rails costs ALOT more then $47 shipped from newegg. Problem is, I only seen one person said they tested the rails and said it was less then 3% at maxload. Didn't give any hard numbers though. Then again, I have a hard time finding ANY good reviews about powersupplies. Even the tomshardware is only subpar but better then anything else out there. I think that, combined with what larva wrote up, and the various rants and ravings of lunat.... er fellow computer geeks makes the total information to go by very thin.

If you had a choice would you..

a) go with the sparkle 350w (really 220w 3.3/5v) knowing full well in the future are are going to need just a tiny bit more power even though this is adequete. Thus maybe needing yet another PSU upgrade or....

b) go for the new true allied 450 (really 230w 3.3v/5v) but not knowing how good this psu is considering the crap that has come out before it? Then again it could be as good as all the hype I can find on it and make this a real diamond in the rough at even a cheaper price (okay, only 2 bucks cheaper) then the sparkle?

grrr... decisions decisions.

 

[warnerwh]

If you mean Allied I'd stay away from them. Read alot of horror stories of Allied/Deer supplies. Get the Fortron and be happy.

 

[larva]

[rant]
Perhaps I did not make the point forcefully enough. Allied is complete and utter junk. Do not buy it. Period. The ratings do not tell you about the actual output. They hopefully are related, but this relationship is strained to the breaking point by makers of junk like Allied. Notice the galvanized finish of the Allied. This is somewhat ironic, as it will end up in a trash can sooner rather than later, and may be accompanied by worthwhile components like your motherboard, drives, and/or expansion cards.
[/rant]

*breathes deeply*

The Fortron will not need replacing any time soon. The whole point of the thread was that we simply cannot judge by the nominal total wattage rating. The Fortron 350 is a remarkably powerful device, with actual output exceeding that of most 400-450W supplies, and all junk like Allied regardless of what number they may paste on the side in an attempt to add a portion of your personal fortune to their own.

The Fortron version of the 350W FSP sold by directron has a temperature controlled variable speed fan that the Sparkle version sold by newegg does not have. I personally use the Sparkle version, but replace the fitted .3A NMB fan with a .15A 80mm fan to lower the noise signature. This supply is so powerful that even powering my fairly substantial P4 does not produce enough heat to mandate the stiffer fan.