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Peltier cooled WB instead of radiator?!
- Thread starter nijel
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
you may be looking for something like this:
http://community.webshots.com/album/31101133jPbxaXIYoy
This was my first version. I'm currently on my 3rd version of this design but I will say that using pelts in the water system is a nice addition to a regualar water cooled setup but it's dificult to get it perform by istself. The next version being worked on is a dual 70watt pelt model with dual heatsinks and fans. It should perform ok but I have also started to look into other ways to get good temp.
With just a pelt you will find that your temps will continue to creap on you even after many hours. I will say however that toast (the program I used to heat up the cpu) is brutal. It gives temps about 3c higher than prime95.
http://community.webshots.com/album/31101133jPbxaXIYoy
This was my first version. I'm currently on my 3rd version of this design but I will say that using pelts in the water system is a nice addition to a regualar water cooled setup but it's dificult to get it perform by istself. The next version being worked on is a dual 70watt pelt model with dual heatsinks and fans. It should perform ok but I have also started to look into other ways to get good temp.
With just a pelt you will find that your temps will continue to creap on you even after many hours. I will say however that toast (the program I used to heat up the cpu) is brutal. It gives temps about 3c higher than prime95.
thats almost exactly what i wanna try!!! how does that work for ya, waht are your watertemps and how fast to they go down(or up)....
i was just thinkin of doing the similar using a slightly sq hing with water swirling around the heatsink.... for better cooling.... i wanna know more!
i was just thinkin of doing the similar using a slightly sq hing with water swirling around the heatsink.... for better cooling.... i wanna know more!
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
Like Isaid that is the first version and version 3 is now being worked on. I posted some temps up there. My system right now running without the cryocooler is only running about 12c over room temp. This is at full load and with an xp1700 running at 1616mhz. With the cryocooler 1 it whould be about 2 or 3 c cooler. Version 3 will be using an alpha pal for the inside and two heatsinks on the outside with dual 70watt pelts. Hopefully I would see temps about 2 or 3c above rooms temps.
The temps rise sowly and when running normally get cooler and cooler over time but it is kind of slow with the crycooler 1 anyway.
The temps rise sowly and when running normally get cooler and cooler over time but it is kind of slow with the crycooler 1 anyway.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2000
- Location
- Indiana, the land of corn
I really should look at my posts after I try to upload something. Anyway I'm gonna try one last time.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2000
- Location
- Indiana, the land of corn
Did you have two seperate loops? I wan't able to tell how you had that setup.webmedic said:
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
No. Basicly that is a resevore with pelt cooling built in. There is only one loop. To make it even better there is actually only two pieces of tubing if you want to run it that way. I also tested it with a radiator to see if it would help mutch. The nice about using it with a rad is that the rad draws allot of the heat from the system and then the pelts can lower it more from there.
If it is used by itself without the rad it cools about as well as regualar air cooling but is much quieter. The version 3 should cool even better than that but I don't have it done yet and it will be a while before it is completed.
If it is used by itself without the rad it cools about as well as regualar air cooling but is much quieter. The version 3 should cool even better than that but I don't have it done yet and it will be a while before it is completed.
are those heatsinks epoxied together? if not use a bigger one in the rez,
and is that chiller epoxied to the container? if not turn it 90 degrees, and run the water in the side so it swirls around and around inside the box so it gets more movement around the heatsink.... thats my idea, basicly the same as what you have there,
what wattage pelt is that?
and how many gph pump do you have in that thing?
and is that chiller epoxied to the container? if not turn it 90 degrees, and run the water in the side so it swirls around and around inside the box so it gets more movement around the heatsink.... thats my idea, basicly the same as what you have there,
what wattage pelt is that?
and how many gph pump do you have in that thing?
DOH! specs: 180gph pump and 120watt pelt. The two heatsinks are bolted together and the res is designed to have the return flow directed towards the center of the chill sink.maskedgeek said:
Cooling of this nature normally takes 3-4x watt pelt/ system watt output for it to beneficial in cooling the water. Unlike 2x watt pelt/ cpu output with directly mounting the pelt using a cold plate. Chilling water with pelts is soooooo inefficient it is just not worth cost or the hassel to even try.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
Well It has a few benifits but the secret to getting good temps is the size if the fan you use to cool off the hot side of the pelts. When I used a huge fan I get verry aceptable temps. Also it will help when used in conjunction with a radiatror. Think about it this way, it is more like a good replacement for a masive bong cooled system without the disadvantages of using a bong. Oh and the reason I like it is because I don't have to wory about insulating my cpu.
i once saw this little thing on here, well it wasnt little but it had to do with a tec, and i think it was like 500+ watts, it was a box(guessing 12x12x6 in) with this wand like thing with a coil of copper, it looked a lot like those project x vapor change systems in the water, and i wanna find one of those, anyone know what im talkin about??
it was on ebay.... but someone here posted something about it...
it was on ebay.... but someone here posted something about it...
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2001
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
if u want silent and cold go for this. try toi obtain a cheap used but working mini
freezer(preferred) or refridgerator. cut a hole in the side of it to run ur hoses through and seal it with foam insulation(the type in a can). mount ur fans and radiator inside of the contraption. now u have cooler temps and the fridge insulates u from the sound of the fans. just be sure to adjust the temps so the radiator doesnt freeze over. btw if u apply the pelts to the cpu then cool their hotside with the watercooler with its radiatopr like this sub zero is only a couple of adjustments away.
freezer(preferred) or refridgerator. cut a hole in the side of it to run ur hoses through and seal it with foam insulation(the type in a can). mount ur fans and radiator inside of the contraption. now u have cooler temps and the fridge insulates u from the sound of the fans. just be sure to adjust the temps so the radiator doesnt freeze over. btw if u apply the pelts to the cpu then cool their hotside with the watercooler with its radiatopr like this sub zero is only a couple of adjustments away.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
- Location
- Fredrikstad, Norway
608 Watts(!) peltier radiator ?
Hi,
I've got the same idea! I'll of corse give you the credit - you posted it first. Anyway, take a lok at my attempt to design such a peltier radiator...
I've been workin' with an idea of cooling down liquid to sub zero temp (Centigrade) for a couple of days now. I had to set a few goals before I started out with the design task;
It had to be compact enough to fit inside a normal case - no big tower or any external hoses or a radiator or anything else.
Likewise it had to be fairly transportable - I'd like to have the whole rig along at net/game parties without any extra boxes, hoses or similar.
It should not produce more noise than any ordinary computer rig (With standard HSF).
It should also be as effective as possible.
To make it fit inside a normal case (AOpen midi or similar) it could not be a heat pump system as in a fridge. All such system (as far as I know of, that is) does not fit inside a midi case. So then it had to be a heat pump system based on liquid coolant, e.g. water cooling. But the radiator would be a weak link - it will not cool any liquid to sub zero temperature. Then I thought of using a peltier element (TEC). One last obstacle; a CPU core has so small surface area that attaching a large TEC on top of it would be fairly impractical and possibly ineffectively too, even with a proper cold plate made of copper.
What if I use TECs to cool the liquid befor I pump it to a water block? Wouldn't I then be able to using more than one TEC also (in paralell)? After reading a lot of threads regarding water cooling and TECs at this exelent forum, (BTW, the best forum I've stumbled across on the net so far) I deside to try to design a setup with this goals in mind. This is what I have come up with so far.
A short description of the design; Four(!) 152 Watts, 48x48mm, TECs. Four 'Socket A' heatsinks. The cold plate is actualy two halves of copper billets (6mm thikness) that has a milled duct at one side of each other. They are the mirrored and attached to each other forming a symmetrical duct inside of the whole cold plate. The duct pattern could easily be shanged to any desired shape that would give the greatest surface area.
Some drawbacks I have come up with so far; It is rather expensive to build: Four TECs = $$! Shaping the coldplate require a CNC mill (I guess that few people have such a machinery in their basement/garage?)
And of course condensation - IF it works and goes a few degrees below ambient temperature!
Some advantages; I'll guess that it would require little labour to exchange the normal radiator in an existing watter cooling rig.
3D image of my design
I'll be grateful of any ideas, comments or suggestions on this setup.
Regards, 'Jokke'
Hi,
I've got the same idea!
I'll of corse give you the credit - you posted it first. Anyway, take a lok at my attempt to design such a peltier radiator...I've been workin' with an idea of cooling down liquid to sub zero temp (Centigrade) for a couple of days now. I had to set a few goals before I started out with the design task;
It had to be compact enough to fit inside a normal case - no big tower or any external hoses or a radiator or anything else.
Likewise it had to be fairly transportable - I'd like to have the whole rig along at net/game parties without any extra boxes, hoses or similar.
It should not produce more noise than any ordinary computer rig (With standard HSF).
It should also be as effective as possible.
To make it fit inside a normal case (AOpen midi or similar) it could not be a heat pump system as in a fridge. All such system (as far as I know of, that is) does not fit inside a midi case. So then it had to be a heat pump system based on liquid coolant, e.g. water cooling. But the radiator would be a weak link - it will not cool any liquid to sub zero temperature. Then I thought of using a peltier element (TEC). One last obstacle; a CPU core has so small surface area that attaching a large TEC on top of it would be fairly impractical and possibly ineffectively too, even with a proper cold plate made of copper.
What if I use TECs to cool the liquid befor I pump it to a water block? Wouldn't I then be able to using more than one TEC also (in paralell)? After reading a lot of threads regarding water cooling and TECs at this exelent forum, (BTW, the best forum I've stumbled across on the net so far) I deside to try to design a setup with this goals in mind. This is what I have come up with so far.
A short description of the design; Four(!) 152 Watts, 48x48mm, TECs. Four 'Socket A' heatsinks. The cold plate is actualy two halves of copper billets (6mm thikness) that has a milled duct at one side of each other. They are the mirrored and attached to each other forming a symmetrical duct inside of the whole cold plate. The duct pattern could easily be shanged to any desired shape that would give the greatest surface area.
Some drawbacks I have come up with so far; It is rather expensive to build: Four TECs = $$! Shaping the coldplate require a CNC mill (I guess that few people have such a machinery in their basement/garage?)
And of course condensation - IF it works and goes a few degrees below ambient temperature!
Some advantages; I'll guess that it would require little labour to exchange the normal radiator in an existing watter cooling rig.
3D image of my design
I'll be grateful of any ideas, comments or suggestions on this setup.Regards, 'Jokke'
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2001
Wow that looks verry interesting but I dare say you whould have an interesting electric bill at the end of the month not to mention the power supply you whould need to run it.
Re: 608 Watts(!) peltier radiator ?
608watts of heat>higher than the lowest setting on an electric heater.
Energy consumption>Not much lower than what my house consumes.
Cost of setup>could have gotten a vapo-chill if not right now in a few months.
Sorry Jokke
Alot of people who have never used a pelts come up with ideas like this. Yes this will take care of cooling your water temps and probably give below ambient water temps at full load. But will add a few drawbacks for ya.Jokke said:
Some drawbacks I have come up with so far; It is rather expensive to build: Four TECs = $$! Shaping the coldplate require a CNC mill (I guess that few people have such a machinery in their basement/garage?)
And of course condensation - IF it works and goes a few degrees below ambient temperature!
Some advantages; I'll guess that it would require little labour to exchange the normal radiator in an existing watter cooling rig.
3D image of my design
Regards, 'Jokke'
608watts of heat>higher than the lowest setting on an electric heater.
Energy consumption>Not much lower than what my house consumes.
Cost of setup>could have gotten a vapo-chill if not right now in a few months.
Sorry Jokke
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
- Location
- Fredrikstad, Norway
Re: Re: 608 Watts(!) peltier radiator ?
I live in Norway, and its pretty cold here all year round. At the moment I have a 2000watts heater at 50% load in my computer room. So I guess that 600watt of heat just will be a pluss.
Im note sure, (I'll use an 20A@12V PSU) will 20Amps @ 12V mean the same as a couple of washing machines? I'm not sure about OHM's law... Also in Norway eletricity is rather cheap compare to other contries.
Here in Norway a Wapochill cost about 6400NOK ($710 !)
PSU will cost me about $220
A 152watts TEC will cost about $42
Total $388 + pump, copper, etc., still its cheaper than a Vapochill - and best of all: I've made it my self
Tanx a lot for the inputs so far
Regards, Jokke
racecar12 said:
I live in Norway, and its pretty cold here all year round. At the moment I have a 2000watts heater at 50% load in my computer room. So I guess that 600watt of heat just will be a pluss.
Im note sure, (I'll use an 20A@12V PSU) will 20Amps @ 12V mean the same as a couple of washing machines? I'm not sure about OHM's law... Also in Norway eletricity is rather cheap compare to other contries.
Here in Norway a Wapochill cost about 6400NOK ($710 !)
PSU will cost me about $220
A 152watts TEC will cost about $42
Total $388 + pump, copper, etc., still its cheaper than a Vapochill - and best of all: I've made it my self
Tanx a lot for the inputs so far
Regards, Jokke
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2001
flounder43 said:
WELCOME TO THE OVERCLOCKERS FORUMS!!
Great idea...very interesting. I don't see why it couldn't work, really. Get a huge aluminum passive HS like the kind used to cool the voltage regulators on the backs of those large linear DC power supplies and I think it would work.
Flounder's right...if you keep it at ambient then you won't have to worry about condensation on the hoses or either of the water blocks. *ahem* Please allow me to recommend this for regulating the temperature! Although you might want a bigger TEC module than 120 watts, but oh well...I had to put a plug in.
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2001
- Location
- Raleigh, NC
isnt the vapochill system based on phase change cooling? if it is id get rather impatient waiting for the phase change effect to cool the cpu enough to let me boot up. i had a k6 system that used phase change to cool the cpu (k6-3 450@600 mhz). i bought the system brand new preassembled and i had to switch on the cooling system 30 minutes before i cut on the computer bc it had some sort of safty mechanism that wouldnt let u boot until the cpu was at -30 or below.
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