Reason 4,872 why you should NOT upgrade from Windows 7 to Windows 8

[Bubba-Hotepp]

I'm in the middle of a server swap for a small psychiatric office (good thing too, I might need some therapy by the time I'm done thanks to MS) from Win SBS 2003 to Win Server 2012. Believe it or not, as a server, Win 2012 which is based on Win 8 actually runs and works out very well. During the process it's become apparent though that they need to ditch the 5 remaining XP installs and get those upgraded as well. So, now we come to the crux of the matter. One of the computers they ordered (without consulting me as to which one they should get) came in and guess what, it's a spiffy new Win 8 pro. But I thought, what the heck, one of the office workers (who is very computer savvy by the way) was willing to take the plunge and use that one instead of 7 pro so why not give them that one and see how good or bad that works out in an office environment. One of the issues that has come up in the past is that there is a legacy program that absolutely MUST be used, albeit only once a month, that will work on Windows 7 but loses printing capabilities which they absolutely need to have. The solution was to run the program within XP mode on the Win 7 pro computers where it will be used and life goes on all hunky dory and all is well. Well the office worker who volunteered to take Win 8 pro is, you guessed it, one of those who have XP and need to use that legacy programming (and before anyone starts saying "well have someone else do it" it deals with billing and claims and that is the person's role). And you guessed it again, XP mode is NOT supported in Win 8 Pro. The only solution in that circumstance, and still remain kosher in the eyes of MS and their nightmare licensing rules and requirements, would be to install virtualbox or virtualization software, purchase a full copy of Windows XP somewhere (No it can't be an OEM or Upgrade copy according to MS license terms), and then set up the legacy software on the newly created XP VM running within 8.

Have you been left speechless yet? No? Let me put it this way then. In conclusion, MS wants you to spend money to upgrade to an operating system that MANY if not most consumers have many problems with and hate using it, and MS STUBBORNLY refuses to capitulate to in order to push people into the metro and start buttonless OS environment (NO 8.1 doesn't have the start menu back no matter what they say, it's not even close to the functionality of the start menu) that they believe is the "future" for whatever reason no matter what the customers want. In this case they want the customer to pay $199 for a windows 8 pro upgrade license. And before any of you say "well the OEM version is cheaper, to install the OEM version on a preexisting computer, i.e. you're upgrading the OS, is a violation of MS's terms of use license which for a business is a big deal. All it takes is a disgruntled employee calling up MS to turn you in and collect a reward (yes there is a reward) and they will disable every software license they have on file for your business until you pay their "fees" and bring yourself back into compliance. Unless you're actually building new computer or replacing enough hardware that MS considers it the same as a "new" computer, you MUST purchase a full version or upgrade to migrate to win 8 from win7 and still stay within the requirements of the EULA. So they want you to pay $200 to upgrade from Win 7 pro to Win 8 pro, in return you receive less functionality, AND if you want that functionality back you have to spend even MORE money. In summary, spend money, get less, spend more money to get back what you had. And people actually wonder why Balmer made the worst CEO list? Seriously??

Take this advice to heart, if you have windows 7, don't bother with an upgrade to 8 unless you're A)not using it for work and B)have a touch screen laptop or tablet. Wait until MS is done playing with all of the guinea pigs and do what they should have done in the first place, or they continue to crash and burn so badly that it actually pushes people to Linux, Mac, or something new and one of those takes over the market.

 

[hafa]

At the risk of getting a wall of text in reply, I'll bite on this one:

Option 1:

Install Windows XP in Windows 8 Client Hyper-V

Option 2:

Does the software support network printing? Perhaps you could use an inexpensive print server.

Post a bit more detailed information about the software (such as if you're printing on continuous or prepared forms, type of printer) and further requisite topology and we might be able to provide more useful suggestions. I've set up dozens of client server applications using Windows 8 Pro/ Server 2012 with legacy software and have always found viable workarounds for most issues.

As an aside:

Legacy software printing support, or lack thereof, while it may be of concern to a specific business, is hardly a compelling reason not to use the OS for those unaffected by this issue.

As far as the start button being missing, properly setting up the start screen and default applications before delivering business systems goes a long ways towards dispelling FUD and eliminating unnecessary service calls.

 

[Culbrelai]

And you guessed it again, XP mode is NOT supported in Win 8 Pro.

What?



They even have a Windows 7 mode...

But I agree with your greater point of avoiding Windows 8, especially for businesses I would think that the Start Screen would really slow down things

 

[Automata]

I'm confused by your post and trying to understand your point. We shouldn't upgrade to Windows 8 because there are programs that haven't been updated? Each operating system has their place, but that sounds like a pretty poor argument for home users. If you are using legacy programs, you should be using a legacy operating system; either directly running on bare metal, or through a virtual machine. The problem isn't the operating system, it is the maker of the program or the fact that the user is attempting to use a program that is ancient. However, I know that some fields have some hilariously outdated software, so it can't be helped, but again, this isn't Microsoft's fault.

Personally speaking, I've been running Windows 8 my Thinkpad W530 for about a week now and I'm pleasantly surprised at how well it is doing. This laptop has been running Arch Linux since I purchased it around a year ago, and I've had nothing but issues with getting different features working. I was going to put Windows 7 on it, but Bitlocker was included in the Pro version of 8, which is what I have from MSDNAA. Haven't had a Windows issue or annoyance yet. Even the "super annoying" missing Start button that everyone complains about doesn't bother me. It is open long enough for me to type the name of the program I want to open and that is it: just like in Windows 7.

Windows 8 is getting far more hate than it deserves from "power users".

I do phone support for a proprietary program (meaning, I don't support anything but our program). When Windows 7 came out, nearly every call that I received where a user got a new system that had Windows 7, the user complained about "this new dang system" and just how terrible it was because everything was moved (Vista was the same way). With Windows 8, I've seriously not heard a single complaint. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm a bit surprised.

What?

I think he means the virtual machine, not the compatibility mode option.

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

At the risk of getting a wall of text in reply, I'll bite on this one:

Option 1:

Install Windows XP in Windows 8 Client Hyper-V

Option 2:

Does the software support network printing? Perhaps you could use an inexpensive print server.

Post a bit more detailed information about the software (such as if you're printing on continuous or prepared forms, type of printer) and further requisite topology and we might be able to provide more useful suggestions. I've set up dozens of client server applications using Windows 8 Pro/ Server 2012 with legacy software and have always found viable workarounds for most issues.

As an aside:

Legacy software printing support, or lack thereof, while it may be of concern to a specific business, is hardly a compelling reason not to use the OS for those unaffected by this issue.

As far as the start button being missing, properly setting up the start screen and default applications before delivering business systems goes a long ways towards dispelling FUD and eliminating unnecessary service calls.

As far as option one goes, it's the principle. You shouldn't have to pay even more money to fix something that was working and CAN work just because MS is stubborn. Of course you can install XP in hyper-V or in virtualbox, VMware etc. etc., but as I stated earlier that means either digging out an old copy of XP, which in the case of most business they buy preloaded machines and don't have "copies" lying around, or finding a copy of XP to purchase. And before you say it, yes of course I know there are workarounds to that. Almost all of those workarounds will violate the EULA and put a company at risk and since I'm being contracted to administer their systems, that means I'm now legally liable if they ever have a license audit by MS and get caught. It typically works like this, someone calls up or something gets transmitted to MS and notifies them that you're not within compliance. MS sends a letter stating that they want to perform a software audit of your company. You can A)accept and they come out and verify that all your licenses are in compliance (which by the way the licensing is so complex MS even violates their own license with their new VDI software) or B)you tell them no and they then disable every license they have on file and every license phoning home ( usually during update) from the same IP as the licenses on file. And it stays that way until you pay to come back into compliance (at of course higher than retail cost).

Now if you take the VHD from XP mode and try to use it in Hyper-V or virtualbox etc under Win 8, it will then deactivate at boot up and you must then go through the activation process (of course needing a valid XP key which the one that comes with XP mode is ONLY valid when running on 7). There are ways to get it to work, but again, violation of EULA.

As for option 2, I would love it if someone could help me work through it. The legacy software I'm talking about is Medisoft V14. It's not even a "is there something else we can use" issue. They don't use it anymore, except, they still need it to close all the old files and claims. It will be that way until the last one is finally closed (which could be another year or two). After that they won't use it anymore since they're using a web based system hosted somewhere else thank god. Here's the problem. It installs and works on Windows 7 Pro with one exception and it's a big one. They need to be able to print claims. Printing is completely broken. I was on the phone for 3 hours with medisoft trying to get it to work and the end result was "Medisoft version 14 is not supported on windows 7" blah blah. And there is no way their going to pay $2200 plus CAL's at around $1000 just for a program that they use once a month because upgrading windows breaks the old version. They would rather keep a couple old computers and then make my life a nightmare with users going back and forth between xp and 7/8 and the folder redirection heart burn that creates. XP mode works perfectly for it though. Load it up, run the install, point to the server, works like a charm of course. Just takes a little bit to set up printers etc. but no big deal. I've got other fires to put out at the moment though, I'm still trying to figure out how upgrading the server made an 8 port unmanaged switch not want to play nice.

What?



They even have a Windows 7 mode...

But I agree with your greater point of avoiding Windows 8, especially for businesses I would think that the Start Screen would really slow down things

that's "windows compatibility mode". XP Mode is basically a preactivated copy of XP running in Windows Virtual PC with addons for integration with the Win 7 Pro Host. It's only available on Win 7 Pro and Enterprise. Since Win Virtual PC works on Win 8, and Hyper-V is really the next step of it and we know just about ANY OS will work in Hyper-V (with exceptions), it's not a matter of it not being able to work, it's a matter of MS doesn't want to ALLOW the licensing to carry over. It's as if they just want to force people to stop using XP completely whether they like it or not or pay the price of finding a copy of XP and having to fork over more money. I find that kind of funny since this is a "Pro" version meant for the business community (or the geeks like us) and there are MANY businesses that for one reason or another are forced to still use legacy software for one reason or another. Sometimes because of a requirement by either regulation/law or by another company.

Maybe I'm just imagining things but it just seems to me that over the past few years there is this really ugly stubborn streak over at MS and there is this attitude of "shut your mouth, take it and like it". I mean how EASY would it be to just have the OPTION to enable the start menu and boot to desktop and give people the choice (as of now) to us metro or not. Ease people into the new environment over the next few years. Build the foundation as it were. How EASY would it be to just put XP mode in Win 8 (even if it didn't have the full integration features) with a preactivated license. I don't know about you but it's making me think if they keep going down that road then either a Linux distro will start to take over or someone else will come along with something to knock them off the mountaintop. Here's something to think about, well over half the computers out there in people's pockets are running Linux (Android). Won't be too hard for Google to make inroads into the desktop if MS keeps this up (who knows, maybe they're already creating the desktop version of android as we speak).

 

[awktane]

Considering windows xp itself is no longer supported by microsoft it makes no business sense for them to provide a way to run it. It also makes no sense for them to continue support for windows xp. It's been how many years? In my mind this is more like reason #4872 for this office to upgrade the software that doesn't run on newer operating systems and they should have considered that years ago.

 

[TollhouseFrank]

Considering windows xp itself is no longer supported by microsoft it makes no business sense for them to provide a way to run it. It also makes no sense for them to continue support for windows xp. It's been how many years? In my mind this is more like reason #4872 for this office to upgrade the software that doesn't run on newer operating systems and they should have considered that years ago.

Someone doesn't understand licensing agreements and/or legal limitations based on certain lines of work. Certain software might be the only thing they are allowed to use because it is the only thing that they can LEGALLY use to do a function. If the creator of that software hasn't released an updated version in forever, then they are stuck trying to kludge together support for a legacy system because of issues like that.

 

[hafa]

As far as option one goes, it's the principle.

I have my principles too, and if you don't like them, I have others... Seriously, however, if you have a client that has waited this long to deal with closing out their old software, it's their fault, so they pay the piddling $130 for an XP license and buy you lunch. Raging against MS won't change anything other than your blood pressure.

...They don't use it anymore, except, they still need it to close all the old files and claims... It will be that way until the last one is finally closed (which could be another year or two

Why not just have the old box sit in a corner and run it via remote desktop, then shut it off for good in a year or two? Heck, you could even set the gateway to a dead IP address to prevent internet access.

 

[SteveLord]

Someone doesn't understand licensing agreements and/or legal limitations based on certain lines of work. Certain software might be the only thing they are allowed to use because it is the only thing that they can LEGALLY use to do a function. If the creator of that software hasn't released an updated version in forever, then they are stuck trying to kludge together support for a legacy system because of issues like that.

+1. Someone here knows modern business and/or enterprise environments. Licensing software can be a mess and legacy apps are extremely plentiful and not easily or cheaply replaced.

For me, newly purchased machines offer the Windows 8 > 7 downgrade. So I basically get both operating systems. I did the same for XP/Vista and no surprise...I never had a reason to switch my staff over the Vista. We all have 7 and there is no reason to upgrade to 8.

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

I have my principles too, and if you don't like them, I have others... Seriously, however, if you have a client that has waited this long to deal with closing out their old software, it's their fault, so they pay the piddling $130 for an XP license and buy you lunch. Raging against MS won't change anything other than your blood pressure.

I'm guessing you don't work in the corporate or business IT world. The fact of the matter is there are some "legacy apps" that are still used not because they want to, or were just too lazy to replace, it's that they are FORCED to use it for one reason or another, OR that they're trying to get rid of it and it makes no business sense at all to spend thousands to tens of thousands on a new version when they won't be using it for more than a year or 2 tops. In this case, it's not the software they're waiting to close out, it's the patient files IN the software which they just can't decide willy nilly to close the file out. It's closed out when the file is finished (i.e. the patient leaves or the treatment is finished etc.). I rage against MS because this is a simple little thing that's been brought to their attention (much like the start menu) and they not only refuse to help you with it, they say "too bad". $130 may be piddling, but it's something that shouldn't HAVE to be spent. And to top it off, since 90 percent of the business world is NOT using or supporting Windows 8 (shoot, half of them JUST switched to 7 from XP), there is no guarantee that all of the software the user is going to use will work without a problem. I have no idea since none of it's been tested with Win 8. Take for example, Valant doesn't even support IE 10, and that's the web based replacement for medisoft that they are forced to use by the state and the feds. And now all these clinicians are buying these spiffy new tablets with Win 8 they've been talked into getting. I don't envy the tech support over there. I'm sure they're getting swamped with phone calls and tickets.

Why not just have the old box sit in a corner and run it via remote desktop, then shut it off for good in a year or two? Heck, you could even set the gateway to a dead IP address to prevent internet access.

Doesn't always work that way. Depends on if doesn't violate the UELA to do that (and YES there are instances where that can happen like that). As it stands I have the old server currently running on a VM inside the new server until the transition is complete and then it will be stripped down to run only a few other legacy apps that aren't compatible with Server 2012 (same base as Win 8 by the way).

I love the answers, "oh just make your life more difficult and do it this way and quit yer whinin about big wonderful MS that turns crap to gold and water into wine". As a home user and gamer I HOPE MS keeps pulling this kind of crap. I would love to see an easy to use version of a free operating system (Linux) that doesn't have a ridiculously complex licensing scheme become the market leader and supported by all. They just proved the point with XBOX one and the whole "always on" and used game DRM. I bet the Sony guys literally fell off their seats, jumped up and did the happy dance jig, and did perpetual fist pumps when MS made that idiotic announcement. I'll also bet the head of entertainment tore up his speech and rewrote it to the one we saw at CES after he heard that announcement too. Took MS all of less than 48 hours to retract all of that after Sony kicked them in the hoo hoo's and declared victory. But then again the IT side of me dreads more headaches and migraines caused by the stubborn garbage their pulling.

Oh and as a side note, now you know why mission critical military systems have been switched over, or slated for switch over, to Linux.

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

Considering windows xp itself is no longer supported by microsoft it makes no business sense for them to provide a way to run it.

It also makes no sense for them to continue support for windows xp. It's been how many years? In my mind this is more like reason #4872 for this office to upgrade the software that doesn't run on newer operating systems and they should have considered that years ago.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I agree with you, supporting and keeping your customers operating efficiently, with ease, and happy and content so that they're loyalty towards you is increased and you make more in the way of future sales makes absolutely NO business sense at all. I think that would not only make no sense, I think it's the most foolish thing I've ever heard of. Geesh, whoever heard of a thing like that??

It also makes no sense for them to continue support for windows xp. It's been how many years? In my mind this is more like reason #4872 for this office to upgrade the software that doesn't run on newer operating systems and they should have considered that years ago.

You don't deal with business software or licensing at all huh? Or deal with the complex interdependencies of all of that software.

Here's a little thought of fact for you. Companies like MS don't make their Trillions by little ole home users buying copies of their latest and shiniest software. The money train is in the business licensing. That's why companies like Oracle can give away their software to home or power users like us for free and yet still make enough money to be in the fortune 500. Go check out their enterprise licensing and their enterprise "support" options. So I find it just a tad bit ironic that MS would create a new "interface" for their latest OS meant for a touchscreen tablet, remove all the desktop features everyone is used to thereby requiring retraining to employees to learn how to use it (not everyone is computer savvy and can sit down and figure it out in hours or days by themselves), strip out features that businesses use, and THEN expect to make money off of it by selling it to said customers. You'd be shocked to learn how many computers with Win 8 on them were bought by companies as "bulk" purchases, who then downgraded and deployed them with Win 7 pro. Don't buy into the garbage coming from MS when they say "see we sold 100 million licenses". They know FULL well that number includes ALL licenses sold to OEM's still sitting on a PC in a warehouse waiting to be sold, AND all those PC's that were bought and then downgraded. There are not 100 million computers out there actually USING windows 8. And you wonder why.

 

[hafa]

Wow, walls of invective. Impressive. I'll head back to the beach now.

 

[Automata]

I'm honestly trying to understand at this point. I was going to make a post earlier, had a big ol' argument typed it up, then decided it wasn't worth it.

You are angry because a business is making money: the whole point behind what a business does and solely exists to do. Companies will only give away products for free when it is convenient for them to do so. That is, market penetration, getting their name out there, etc.

I'll use a real life example that isn't Microsoft or Oracle. It is someone you've never heard of (I work for them). We give out our products free to universities that work in our field so that students get to use our product while learning their trade. Is this done because the company is nice, has a heart, and just loves people? Ha, no (although, we love people, don't read that wrong -- can't slam my company). It gets them used to our product, so that when they go to work in the field, they prefer using it over the competitor. It is the same with every other company. I'm sorry that your are angry, but frankly, your posts are just coming across as silly. Different programs have different requirements and Microsoft doesn't care about some piddly program from 10 years ago. I agree that it is annoying to deal with these types of upgrades, because I do it every time a new operating system or update comes out for multiple different products (Flash, Air, Java, etc).

I'm not looking for a heated or one-side argument; much like you have been doing up to this point. But, if you want to sit down and actually have a discussion, I'm fine with that. If you just want to rant, cool, I'm fine with that too, I'll just unsubscribe and you can do your thing.

 

[MarkS]

There are many reasons why I am not switching to Windows 8. NONE of them have to do with XP support. That is like saying I wont use Windows 7 because it lacks support for MSDOS. At some point Microsoft has to remove support for older operating systems. If they continue to make all newer versions backwards compatible, the source code would bloat up to unimaginable proportions. As it is, Windows has too much bloat.

It isn't Microsoft's fault that businesses are willing to hire outside consultants to shoehorn archaic software and hardware onto current operating systems instead of paying to upgrade the outdated software and hardware.

 

[RJARRRPCGP]

Windows XP is supported until at least April, 2014, IIRC.

Thank God, because I just cleaned up a Windows XP Home Edition installation on a laptop with a real paltry 512 MB of RAM!

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

I'm honestly trying to understand at this point. I was going to make a post earlier, had a big ol' argument typed it up, then decided it wasn't worth it.

You are angry because a business is making money: the whole point behind what a business does and solely exists to do. Companies will only give away products for free when it is convenient for them to do so. That is, market penetration, getting their name out there, etc.

I'll use a real life example that isn't Microsoft or Oracle. It is someone you've never heard of (I work for them). We give out our products free to universities that work in our field so that students get to use our product while learning their trade. Is this done because the company is nice, has a heart, and just loves people? Ha, no (although, we love people, don't read that wrong -- can't slam my company). It gets them used to our product, so that when they go to work in the field, they prefer using it over the competitor. It is the same with every other company. I'm sorry that your are angry, but frankly, your posts are just coming across as silly. Different programs have different requirements and Microsoft doesn't care about some piddly program from 10 years ago. I agree that it is annoying to deal with these types of upgrades, because I do it every time a new operating system or update comes out for multiple different products (Flash, Air, Java, etc).

I'm not looking for a heated or one-side argument; much like you have been doing up to this point. But, if you want to sit down and actually have a discussion, I'm fine with that. If you just want to rant, cool, I'm fine with that too, I'll just unsubscribe and you can do your thing.

I'll put it this way. We'll take your example. Let's say that your company through it's marketing and business savvy positions itself so that the software it produces is critical for many businesses to run. It interfaces all sorts of other products and software. You've been able to get all these students used to the software so they can walk right in and use it on day one in the field. It works so well that businesses don't see a huge reason to purchase the new version right away that your company releases, even though it's more secure and has made some massive improvements. You're marketing and corporate divisions work really hard at getting all your customers out there to upgrade to the new version over the next 5 years or so. There are even features built into the new version to make the migration easy. So you reach the point where the customers using the old version and the new version are at equal percentages (say 40%). So your company in it's infinite wisdom, just 17 months later, releases a brand new shiny version of the software when a full 20% plus are STILL using the old version for various reasons (sometimes by reasons they cannot help). And now in the new version, your company completely changes the way it's used as well as stripping away the same features in the last version that made the last version so attractive to upgrade and why it finally took over the majority market share. This of course all adds many layers of complexity and so many things that need to be "fixed" that everyone balks at upgrading. Your company then spends the next 6 months or so ignoring all of the complaints and problems meanwhile saying "we've been listening to our customers" and plan an update that doesn't address hardly ANY of the issues with it that are preventing people from migrating to it en masse. Now that to me doesn't seem like good business sense or good customer service. It may seem like it but your "business" isn't the only one in town.

There are many reasons why I am not switching to Windows 8. NONE of them have to do with XP support. That is like saying I wont use Windows 7 because it lacks support for MSDOS. At some point Microsoft has to remove support for older operating systems. If they continue to make all newer versions backwards compatible, the source code would bloat up to unimaginable proportions. As it is, Windows has too much bloat.

It isn't Microsoft's fault that businesses are willing to hire outside consultants to shoehorn archaic software and hardware onto current operating systems instead of paying to upgrade the outdated software and hardware.

You must have missed the posts about some businesses being FORCED to use "archaic" "outdated" software sometimes even by federal or state requirements and there is nothing they can do about it. And I haven't even gotten into all the clinicians, therapists and Dr's (if you expect most of them to be tech savvy, well think again) That have bought new laptops (most for work in remote locations) and how they've all come in saying either "I HATE it!! Please help!!" or "this program or that program doesn't work anymore" (such as web based state programs that don't support IE 9 let alone 10 or 11 and other actual desktop software). Oh and did I mention that there are certain remote connection programs that are broken with Win 8 that some of the Dr's are required to use for certain things. Only viable solution? Downgrade, downgrade, downgrade.

All of this makes me wonder what people are smoking when they keep telling those of us that are having massive problems that we're just "complaining" about change just like all the other version upgrades and we should just get used to it.

For home users, if you love the new interface and it doesn't crash your programs then hey, have at it. I'm cautioning business users and IT pros to beware.


Edit - Just some statistics by the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp http://www.netmarketshare.com/?source=NASite

 

[Automata]

I'll put it this way. We'll take your example. Let's say that your company through it's marketing and business savvy positions itself so that the software it produces is critical for many businesses to run. WALL OF TEXT

I don't want to be rude, but was there a point to that? I re-read it a few times and it relates to my post in exactly zero ways.

I guess I'll unsubscribe then. I can only take so much unintelligible ranting in one day, sorry.

 

[Bubba-Hotepp]

I don't want to be rude, but was there a point to that? I re-read it a few times and it relates to my post in exactly zero ways.

I guess I'll unsubscribe then. I can only take so much unintelligible ranting in one day, sorry.

My point is, you said "Microsoft doesn't care about some piddly program from 10 years ago" just like every other company out there. Since when did customer service turn into "here, take our product use it and stop yer whining". Since when did creating a product that fills a need turn into trying to create a need that fits a product or "vision"? Unintelligible ranting? Okay, if you say so.

 

[Automata]

How did you get that from my post? I think you might need to re-read it. However, I'm done with this thread. Have fun.

 

[c627627]

Throughout the thread, the original poster appears to be referring to Microsoft Corporation as if they were not convicted monopolists (?!) http://www.justice.gov/atr/cases/f3800/msjudgex.htm

They were, so the original poster's surprises are unfounded because this is 2013 - that is the way Microsoft does business. They are not like "other companies" - so complaints along those lines are valid. We are all waiting for a viable operating system alternative. We do not have a choice yet.


More to the point, yes, there is no justification for most users to disrupt a working Windows 7 installation and move to Windows 8.


Original Poster, perhaps keeping Windows XP can be a viable option? Why not simply partition your hard drive into relatively small partitions, keep Windows XP on one and instal either Windows 7 or [Windows 8 + Classic Shell] on the other partition, then in two minutes switch between them. That way you have the real deal whenever you need it and you can go back to Windows 7/8 when needed too. Installing Operating Systems onto small partitions then simply keeping them and rebooting into them in less than 2 minutes, NOT IF but WHEN something goes wrong with the new OS, is what we've been doing for years.