Taking Bets On Speed!

[eduncan911]

What case did you have in mind?

Here's a case I was using, before I went with the Aluminum version (cause I have to lift my rig above my head, for maintenance to remove it).

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-133-108&depa=0







I measured it, and a Thermochill or Black Ice radiator (Xtreme or Pro) would fit perfectly in the front of the case, drawing air inwards. From what opthers have posted for measurements, even those heatcore units from AutoStone will fit. Obviously some cutting to open her up, but please of room. You'd also have to remove the 3.5" tray, that holds the floppy drives (thumbscrews). And you'll have to remove the HD cage obviously (small rivets).

Would have to mount the HD(s) up in the 5.25" bays (plenty of room), but I choice this case before because it can mount a full size 12" x 13" mobo. Which that spec gives you about 3" more depth, between the HD cage and Mobo for watercooling. Removing the HD cage will give LOTs of room.

Mine is sitting in the back, about to go up on eBay.


What is this "Silvertone TJ06 Windtunnel"?

 

[Ross]

Right now I have this case. It so nice and I barely got ahold of one before CM discontinued them. Black (what I wanted) was just nowhere to be found already As you might guess, I am not really into cases that look like PS2 skateboarding game boxes

The Silverstone TJ06 is a little taller, but about the same depth...maybe 1" wider. If you look at this pic, you'll see that the mobo mounts upside down (ala BTX) and the plastic tunnel goes over the CPU/DDR/even some of the NB and they get their own cool air source, which is promptly routed right out back. Of course heat from those items it pretty well contained so it doesn't make it to other parts of the system.

Silverstone, BTW, is relatively new and started by some people that left CM. A lot of their other case interiors are the spitting image of the CM. The top-o-the-line one (TJ-03) is absolutely right up my alley...all aluminum, a little larger, 1 more 5.25 bay, front door, etc., but holy crap on the price ($250-300). There might even be enough room for a BIP2 or 3 rad in the top without touching the PSU/top 5.25 bay gear as seen in this pic.

Anyway, back to the TJ06, I am thinking if the dual rad can be mounted in front and the lower fan on it can still be used with the tunnel to supply air for the DDR/CPU-area/mosfets, that would probably work pretty well in the case of WCing and no HSF to keep the mobo components cool.

 

[eduncan911]

Excellent cases! Finally, some BTX cases I'd like to get my hands on. Perhaps if I sell my case one day with the Black Ice 3x120cm radiator I'll get one of those. But I guess I am ATX for a while, since I've invested a lot into this system.

I see what you mean by a cooling tunnel. That's pretty cool, but I think the 1/2" ID tubing would mean either:

a) You'd have to remove the cooling tube to clear the water block and tubing or

b) Spend a LOT of design and development time, cutting that air tube to allow the 1/2" water tubing to "slice through" that cooling duct. I think that would be the ULTIMATE WC setup! But, the resources to perform that, and seal it, would take a lot of time.

There might even be enough room for a BIP2 or 3 rad in the top without touching the PSU/top 5.25 bay gear as seen in this pic.

You mean, like mine?

 

[eduncan911]

Humm... Just thought of a new case cooling design using one of those BTX cases (or another case like mine above).

Use weather stripping foam to create as close to an air-tight seal as possible throughout the entire case sides, front, etc.

Next install at least two 120mm fans (3 or 4 is possible) in other parts of the case. But configure them to push outwards. Yes, all 2/3/4 fans to push air OUT.

Where would the supply air come from? How about installing a 2x120 or 3x120 radiator, like I did, at the top of the case. But this time, "inside" the case. Basically, in place of my fans you see above.

But here's the idea: do not install any fans on the radiator. Sealing the case and configuring all fans to pull air out of the case, would leave only one place to pull in nice-cool air: Through the radiator!

Or if you are worried about radiant heat and want to push case air through the radiator at the top instead, then configure all fans to pull air inwards; forcing all case air to go through the radiator.


The more I think about it, the more I liek this air. You could use a smaller 2x120 radiator, at any location of the case (i.e. the Side Door?!?) and use the fans to pull air through the radiator! How about the radiator mounted on the clear lexan on the side door, with a large rectangle cut out of the lexan? Very cool view of the radiator, water tubing, and you won't have to sacrific the HD cage or other parts of the system!

Man, this is making me think of a whole new configuration. [Bevis]Yeah, heh heh, Yeah yeah![/Bevis]

 

[Ross]

Hehe, almost like that!

Well, I am at a wimpy 3/8" ID tubing, but the issue would remain. I don't think it's a literal seal over the CPU, et al, but none of the photos I've seen really show the opening in that area on the tube, so I don't know. Other than maybe cutting some holes for tubing to run through, I don't know how big of a deal it would be. I am thinking 2 .5" holes for the WB lines with a 1/2"OD-3/8"ID grommet would work nicely. I did the exact same thing to get my hoses through the 3.5" cage and it fit perfectly. I might even be able to make something a little more sturdy/better fitting to my mobo out of fiberglass or carbon fiber (that would be cool, but you wouldn't be able to see inside).

I was considering the CM Stacker at one point. It's *huge* and is convertible ATX/BTX, but I think my lateral file would collapse under it...lol. Also with *all* of the vents, I really have to wonder how quiet it could be...WC'd or not. What would really be cool though is a 3x120mm rad could fit right in the front. The cross-flow blower thingie (option) would blow right over the DDR/CPU/mosfets.

 

[Ross]

Yeah, that idea would work (rad/no fans), but you'd need to have a really well sealed case to make sure all of the air was only able to come in through the rad.

Yeah, I was really contemplating just getting the new Swiftech Rev. 3 120 kit and adding a 2nd 120 rad later. I wanted the new MCP350 pump (bought 2 of them...they are AWESOME) and needed a new 775 WB anyway, so the kit almost would've made sense. I obviously opted for the BIP2 instead tho.

If the case is wide enough, I don't see why instead of a 120 on the side, you couldn't use a dual or your triple 120 rad on the side. I was thinking about that on this case (rad mounted on or instead of the swing out panel), but it's probably too low to be useful for mosfet cooling and I am not 100% sure it's wide enough to hold the rad/fans and clear any PCI cards. That is another Silverstone (TJ05).

That's why I got the BIP2 instead of the BIX2...thinner = more room for mounting options inside and less fans required to get decent airflow through it. Hell yeah, a 120 rad mounted in the side over the CPU area would kill 2 birds with one stone...just need to make sure you can get all the hot air out

 

[Ross]

P5AD2-E is installed! PCI-E dead set on 100MHz and staying there. I haven't really messed a whole bunch with anything yet, but the very first thing I noticed (other than the # of drivers that needed to be installed!) was that my idle temps dropped by 6-7C. I don't know if this is the way this mobo reads or if my reinstall of the CPU and the more correct amount AS5 much less than I had on the other Asus ) is the reason?

It's sitting at 4119MHz right now which is my highest OC so far with 27C idle...load only goes up to 35-36C here. One other odd thing I noticed was that "stock" 200FSB on the P5GD1 read 3211MHz, but 200FSB on this mobo is more like 3235.

If anyone doesn't think the NB needs WCing, go ahead and put your hand on the sink! I was going to try to do some pump tests with just the CPU block on, but I think I am going to go ahead and add the NB and GPU blocks ASAP. That thing is baking and it's only at 1.60V.

Where'd you go educan...out buying a new case already?

 

[eduncan911]

Eh, haven't had time to respond (working). And still don't...

Excellent clocK! Yeah, I dropped my temps when using my old WC setup by about 8C by just re-mounting the CPU's waterblock. All depends how evenly and smooth you make the grease.

Btw, you DO know that you aren't suppose to apply the 40-50lbs of downforce on the CPU (via the waterblock/heatsink&fan) right? Intel's new LGA775 spec has that special "clamping" socket, which applies the nessasary ~45lbs of force. The heatsink&fan/waterblock just needs to be firm enough not to move. I've read on a few other forums of people complaining about cracking their mobos and such. It's about time Intel removed the need to curse and swear at that the amount of downforce pressure required to get the freakin heatsink on.

The downside to this new method is the grease is not "squished" to cover the CPU's contact area any longer. You can't just put a few dabs of grease on, and crank down on the heatsink/waterblock to smooth it out.

You have to apply an amount, and use a smoother (I use an old credit card) to give a small, thin, ~1mm thicket of grease over the entire chip's contact surface. Not leaving any gaps, holes, or such. Also, by applying a smooth layer you can easily just attach the waterblock and be done.

Radiant heat xfer is not dependant of the amount of force applied between two surfaces (waterblock/heatsink & CPU's contact area). They simply just have to be touching.


Yeah, my NB is running FREAKING hot... At 300MHZ too. I have a small fan beside it at the moment moving air over it and out towards the rear fan. I only added that after seeing my case temps go up to around 35C, just idling.

Whenever I get a graphics card I am goign to stick with, I'll get a GPU waterblock. At the same time, I'll go ahead and get a NB cooler as well.

It it isn't nessasary, but it will help keep the case temps down. Other systems (Socket 478) have large fans and such running on the NB for big overclocking. Well, we're able to do a lot without that fan. But that's because it was designed to have air flowing across it from the Heatsink & fan specs from Intel. People put waterblocks on it to help quieten it down. Us? We'll be using waterblocks because we don't have that air being drawn from the cpu's heatsink and fan. And, to lower case temps.


257mhz is a good number to hit. But try this, use the CPU lock (which takes your CPU's multiplier down to 14) and try to get 290mhz FSB. This will still give u a 4100mhz chip, but with a much higher FSB. If not 290, try 280 and such. The voltages I'm running at, with 300mhz FSB, are:

mem: 2.00v
chipset: 1.7v
vcore: 1.55v
FSB: 1.3v

Check the vcore for your CPU, but the others should be fine. I had to bump the chipset and mem to get above 280mhz, but seems to be working well. THe system has been running for a week, without a poweroff (developer/gaming/my only machine, so I have a test website I run on it for clients to look at).

What memory did you have? I'd recommend some high quality ram when u can afford it. I got the Corsair XMS DDRII 667s (matched). And I'm running them at full-blown 800mhz!!!!!! Takign them down to 600mhz with the 1200mhz FSB, shows a drop in performance and I can tell the "snappiness" go away from the system. It's awesome to have it at 800mhz.

 

[Ross]

Good timing, I just finished up some massive pump testing and needed a breather After I get my SATA HDD installed tonight and move everything over to it, I'll get the results up under the WC section. FYI, I tested the MCP-600, MCP-350, 2 MCP-350s in parallel and 2 MCP-350s in series.

The downside to this new method is the grease is not "squished" to cover the CPU's contact area any longer. You can't just put a few dabs of grease on, and crank down on the heatsink/waterblock to smooth it out.

This is the method I used the last time and this time with AS5. The last time I used entirely too much and it kinda blobbed out around the CPU, but I used less the 2nd time and that's when I saw the temp drop. I will need to pull my CPU WB again to finalize my setup, so we'll see how well it spread this time (the dab + WB pressure to spread). It did spread well the first time, but of course did not get to the corners.

I have a 3.2 D0, which apparently does not have the lock (I think the E0 might), so I am "stuck" at 16x multiplier. If I were able to run 14x, I'd be all over it I am also using XMS Pro 5400 (1GB TwinX). I haven't really tried running them over about 700MHz, nor have I tried running a Vc that high (1.50 BIOS setting). I am just a little concerned that CPU-Z, AiBooster and SpeedFan all read mid-high 1.5xVc there already. IIRC, CPU-Z actually reads like 1.60x V. BIOS shows lower, but I don't know which to believe

After I get the NB cooled off, I'll get serious about taking a stab for 260+FSB. At the moment, 260 is a wall and 258-259 are iffy...257 is unbelievably stable tho?

 

[eduncan911]

Yep, same memory I got. Except mine doesn't have the purty flashing lights like yours . LOL That memory is stable above 700. Many people are running it at 710 to 730mhz. I'm at 800mhz (400x2) if that tells ya anything.

You don't have to crank down on the waterblock when mounting it. Just enough pressure to keep it from moving when you are moving the water tubes around. If you grab it firmly, you should be able to wiggle it with a medium amount of pressure. If it doesn't, it's too tight.

I use Arctic Silver #5. I followed the steps on their website, where they say to store it in the Frig at all times! Arctic Silver doesn't like to "spread out" with pressure between the waterblock and cpu;s contact area. It's too thick. That's why I used a credit card, and made it fill the entire cpu's surface area.

CPU-Z shows my CPU voltages pretty high as well (1.61). But everything else shows about the same. Your CPU's volts will be higher at idle, above what you set it to. Under load is when it should drop to around what you have it set to, or a bit lower.

 

[eduncan911]

Here's a post from another forum I just did. It helps explains how my voltages are a bit lower then others are running their systems at, with lower speeds.

--------------------

Hi Eric,

Just curious : I've currently got my P5AD2-E running at 1100MHz FSB (4 x 275) and I need to run my FSB Termination Voltage at 1.4V, otherwise the FSB speed (and therefore CPU speed) drops when it's under full load. There's a lot more info about my experience with this board here if you're interested : http://forums.overclockers.com.au/showthread.php?t=331722 (you'll have to register to view it).

Have you used something like CPU-Z to watch the FSB and CPU speeds while yours is under full load? (like 2 instances of prime95 etc)? I'd be surprised if it stays at full speed under load at that FSB Termination Voltage.

Cheers,
Mat.

I'll have to check out that article.

But yes, I have monitored the CPU's speed (and voltage) under heavy loads. I constantly use Asus's Probe to record my voltages history.

As for speed, yep. It stays at 1201-1203mhz idling. Under load, it actually goes up to 1205 and 1206mhz FSB. CPU's speed go up a tad as well, like 10 to 20mhz. CPU's vcore drops to around 1.51-1.53v. Rock solid!

What I define as a "Load" is using that loads up both CPUs in Hyperthreading. Prime95 lets you set hte affinity to CPU0 or CPU1. But I have yet been able to run two instances as people claim they are doing. I double click Prime95 again, and it only opens my existing one.

So to full loadup both Hyperthreads, I run a benchmarking application called CineBench 2003. It has the ability to load up 1 or multiple CPUs (don't do the 3D benchmarking, it's for professional 3D engineering cards. Like the ones costing $2000 to $3000). I use this application to stress test the older Quad Piii Xeon machines in the server room, as well as the newer dual P4 Xeons as it loads up all hyperthreads at 100%.

Setting a script in VB to keep it in a constant loop, it maxes out both CPU threads to 100%.

Running Prime95, it only loads up one of the Hyperthreading CPUs to around 80%, while the other one sits near idle. CPU temps only go to 43 to 45C with Prime95 running in "Maximum heat consuption" test (the one that slams the CPU constantly).

Runnig Cinebench '03 in multi-cpu mode, my CPU temps shoot to ~50C! So that's telling me it's stressing the CPU more then Prime95 is. I also closely monitor the CPU's speed (and FSB is there as well), with the results as I mentioned before: it goes up like 0.5%. Doesn't drop.

I have the OCZ PowerStream 520W PSU unit with the 12V rail running at 13.15V, the 5V rail runing at 5.8V, and the 3.3V rail runing at 3.8V (all measured via digital volt meter, not mobo's readings even though they were very close!). Bumping the power output of the PSU allowed me to run lower voltages that remain stable/constant on the mobo without them dropping.

Little tricks, learning from schooling 101.

The voltage regulators/converters still brings the voltages down to proper levels on the mobo. My theory is you are able run higher voltages that the system has to fight to keep down low enough. This allows load voltages to stay very stable. Instead of having the PSU fight to keep the power output high enough under server loads, cause the voltages will drop. This theory works to a point though: if you push 50V through the 3.3V rail, you'll obviously burn something out as that would be too many amps; exceeding the regulators ability. So don't exceed what the motherboard is designed to regulate.

What's the max regulation this mobo can handle? I have no idea. I'm running the voltages above for a solid week without a power off (have to run the system 24/7 due to demo web sites for clients, that I build). So it's able to take at least that amount of over-power output from the PSU.

 

[Ross]

I never got the email for the last reply, but thanks for the info. I was actually coming back to tell you 1) that I added the NB+GPU to my WC loop and 2) I found a duplicate of the TJ06 (wind tunnel thingie), though much cheaper and with a diff front: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-196-006&depa=1 I am really not liking that front very much at all, but would probably have less reservations about cutting up a $90 case immediately instead of a $150-160 (w/window) case. I just wanted to let you know in case you were looking for a new project

Not 5 min. before I was reading another review of the TJ06 with a "news" article that said the *exact* same case will be released by Silverstone next year...not sure how Aerocool got them out now unless Aerocool is building Silverstone's non-CoolerMaster-esque cases? I can't imagine that. The reviewer got a pic of the Silverstone version (which will probably be $50 more ) at a trade show and it was identical with the exception that the round "dot" on the door had a little skull logo on Silverstone's version.

As for the NB+GPU cooling on my current setup, they added a solid 3C to my temps! Most of that I am guessing was the NB since the vid card was stock at the time. Just "cuz I could", I added a BIM between the CPU and the NB+GPU blocks and that dropped the 3C increase and then some. I was thinking about doing a somewhat dual loop with the BIM2 I have even before seeing the diff (http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=349369).

I also did some testing with my new MCP-350 pumps. They are amazing little buggers and SOOOO quiet, I really can't stand it. See here: http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=351928

FYI, on that P5GD1 I had, the FSB voltage was called something else in BIOS, but the only options were Auto, 1.30V and 1.40V. I ran it at 1.40 the whole time. The pink/red fonts are a little disconcerting on the P5AD2 tho

Hehe. I wasn't really wanting or looking for the Pro version XMS, but they happened to be cheaper than the reg XMS by like $20-$30 for some reason...Fry's must be sitting on a ton of them. I have come to enjoy watching the LEDs tho...especially during mem tests when they are pegged out

 

[Ross]

Oh, Prime95, you need to run the 2nd copy from a command prompt with a "-a1" switch. My CPU0 and CPU1 are pegged at 100% each running this way.

 

[WeldZilla]

What are you hitting for a cpu score on aquamark? What is your pcMark04 score?
3dmark03 and sandra cpu scores. you are talking some great numbers. I would like to see some great results!!

WZ