- Joined
- Nov 12, 2001
Hi yall! Well, it may not fly due to forum rules, but I just thought I'd share some tips and experiences from building and selling computers in small #'s for friends, family and misc. people that I've known over the past three years.
About myself and why I do this
I'm a 19 year old college student. I don't make tons or even a little money off of building computers. It's really just enough to keep a few dollars in my pockets for a little while. That's the key to everything really. You can't expect to make money; making money is really only a side dish. The MAIN reason I (and a few friends) do this is simply because I like the computer exposure. I like working with everything.
Really it's like a hobby that doesn’t take up tremendous amounts of time. I have other hobbies I can waste the rest of my life on, but once you get it down pat, it really doesn’t take much more than an hour to have windows OS loaded on a fast computer. Two hours on a bad install.
Dealing with people
Now then! Most people will think it's really interesting that you can build and fix computers... Trusting you to build their own is an entirely different matter in itself. Really, you can talk "big brand" computers down fairly easy just by saying what they are. They're generally the cheapest acceptable parts that can be found. That leads to bad performance and questionable reliability.
Cost is a big factor in today's market. Computers have drastically come down in price over my lifetime, but $1000-$2000 is still a hefty investment for most people. Cost can be the deal maker and breaker. It's your biggest advantage and your strongest point of sale. You need to BE current with your prices or have the ability to get them fast. (Pricewatch.com takes care of this)
Now I have the luxury of having tens of thousands of broke people with broke parents living in a relatively small area. (Gotta love college!) People in our situation absolutely *have* to have a computer. It's just not something you can get through school without anymore.
We register classes on them, we do research and papers on them. Now we f'ing email them in and get them back graded LoL! The simple fact of college's now is that it doesn’t matter if you want to use a computer, at some point you're going to *have* to use them.
(O.K. so now I've that yall know who I generally sell to, it's obviously I'm not always selling high end stuff)
Get to know who you're selling! That's so important! I don't try to sell every1 top end equipment. It's OUR job to learn what THEY need to be done and find the hardware to do it with. If you know what they need, you won't under or over sell them. That means they're likely to be the happiest they can be with your stuff.
(Example)
Most of my stuff is built for college students. That means the general daily uses are web surfing, chatting, word processing. Sound and video processing. I really try not to sell or build stuff that won't meet those criteria. You really get into the low end and people will generally not be satisfied with it. Personally I won't build something if I know if it can't run:
Q3A - It's dated and should run on about anything
DIVX/MPEG-4 WITH MP3 - This is the hardest test and not all will pass. If it can play a divx and an mp3 at the same time, you got a winner. It's ok if one doesn’t. Just keep them able to run Divx/mpeg-4 videos at full screen with no slowdowns or skips.
Warranties, Contracts and Legal Stuffiez!
This is the dreaded part. I tend to sell to family, friends and friends of friends. That's a huge weight off my shoulders, because I'm by nature very good at judging people.
Warranties. I give none. It's just that simple. It's imperative that you explain what you're doing and what they're getting. I make a list of all included hardware, where it was bought and when it was delivered to me! Give the buyers a copy also. Even if you're buying hardware OEM style, check the warranty information on it. Normally you get 7-15 days on CPU's and 15-30 days on most other hardware.
If you're working with a larger price range. Then you should do your research on buying retail hardware and its warranties also. You should also know how much upgrade warranties cost. When I can get the retail hardware in their price range, I give them the choice. Most people that can afford it in the price range they give you will take it. It's just imperative that they understand it's a manufacture's warranty *not yours*!!! Let them know if something breaks that you'll do the best you can in getting them a replacement from the company you bought it from.
Contracts. I don't use them. Then again with witnesses, word of mouth in Alabama is just as good "technically". It's my feeling that you should know they're serious before you go order parts. You should also know it's clear with whoever the money's coming from (girlfriend/boyfriend, parents) YOU need to ACTUALLY know they've gotten the OK from whoever is paying it. There really is no need for a contract. If you keep it simple and are honest and upfront with the people you're dealing with, you shouldn't need one.
Legal stuff. I don't know any! Don't screw people! Give them a parts list. I *do* include prices. This is really debatable, but I find it keeps people from thinking they just got screwed. If it's a close friend/family I rarely if ever charge my time. (Which as you'll see will be very little) If they want to give me something for my troubles, that's up to them. Whatever they think is fair is fine. For other people I don't charge much. It really depends on their budget
Remember if you say you can build a $1000 computer, to them YOU'RE included in that LoL! I personally don't ever include more than $100 in it for me. $20-$50 is just fine.
*DO NOT sell someone an overclocked computer without EXPLAINING IT, EVERY ASPECT AND RISK. That's why most CPU's come with multipliers. Resellers selling overclocked CPU's and a higher price CPU and keeping the difference. You'll also have your a$s handed to you IN COURT by:
Me - because you're a D!ck and read my guide
Buyers - because you screwed them. False advertising, which btw is a FEDERAL CRIME if it's paid for via Money Order, or shipped VIA US gov postal service.
Government - Yes the government can jail/fine you.
<insert cpu maker here> - because I forget why, but I remember they can!
Back to business!
Ok! So! Find your parts supplier. I *really* suggest not finding the best deal on pricewatch.com, unless it's really worth it. I generally stick with people I buy my own hardware from because I don't mind paying a 5-10% premium over the best pricewatch prices. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice sham on me." I've been burned on a small handful of shady deals in my life (not selling computers) to me I like giving my money to people I like. I like the places I by from because I like their policy's, how they handle my business, and how they handle problems. I'll leave yall to find your own places to buy from...
Tips on building
I'm assuming everyone knows how to build a computer. I'll just contribute some useful info.
#1 Keep fan noise down. Remember you're competing with the *ultra *****ty* cooling of the big OEM guys. The average person isn't use to hearing even 40db of noise with they're computer running. Stick with low speed 80mm fans all the way around. *very* low 92mm's can be considered. Stay away from even medium speed 120mm fans. The rush of air is louder than what most people want I find.
One of the few things I've learned is that you really need to set aside $40 from the beginning on the best LOW SPEED/NOISE HSF you can get. Yall can do that info for yourselves also.
#2 Make a CD of little programs that everyone uses.
#3 Make a CD with every driver that you will possibly need. REFERANCE ONLY!
Software
The main problem in home built computers is that there is no way possible to compete with OEM prices on software. Do whatever you can to get the real stuff. <cough> You don’t want some1 installing the XP service pack only to find that CD key is banned…
You’re left up to do what you can on the software side. I won’t say anything about what to do anymore than I already DID NOT hint at.
I will say that no matter what, you should NOT sell someone something without them knowing EXACTLY what it is. That’s false advertisement and can lead you to *huge* problems. As in you a$s will be in jail for a good many years and when you finally get out you’ll be banned from using computers for a time.
Hardware
I'm an unbiased person. I don't care what I buy. Brand loyalty is important to me personally, but only because it's hard to get mine. With that being said, yall should take that attitude also. Don't talk an Intel freak into an amd computer. Give them what they want.
CPU - I will say that because price is our biggest leverage, that almost always means going with an AMD based computer. Intel's have come down, but I find it hard to argue with the # of sub $60 good performance CPU's you can get from AMD right now.
Motherboard - Hard call here. I'm an Abit guy in my own computers... I tend to stick with the big names, or good deals. I've done several nForce motherboards in the past year. I tend to like the MSI boards. Bios flashing and whole upgrade drivers from windows is a good thing to non-techies. I just set task scheduler to upgrade over two months or so.
Memory - Like motherboards, you just can't skimp and get a no-name. 99% of all memory comes with a lifetime warranty, that doesn’t mean it'll last 5 min after it's out of your hands. Any big name is fine, just find the best deal on it (the 10% off prices you find at hardware review sites and forums for Crucial + free 2-day fed-ex is hard to argue with)
Video - So shoot me, but I've only built ONE computer with an ATI card in it. Even that was the TV Wonder card. I have nothing against ATI. It's just that the reason Nvidia is where they're at today (with me) is because they've released good drivers for YEARS. Really there is no reason debating this... You can't argue with the facts. ATI's new driver and driver people seem to be doing a great job. I wish them all the luck in the world, but that doesn’t give them a *track record* of doing the a-aforementioned things.
Sound – Sound Blaster Live Value is what I normally use. Cheapness and quality help out here. *note* Drivers were originally shoddy in XP, so you better have new ones and the upgrade to it on your driver CD.
Hard drives - Just find something. Price/performance/space. This is where you'll do more research on your own. I will step out on a limb (from personal experiences) that after a CPU upgrade, older computers *seem* to gain more performance with a faster hard drive, not more ram. (Talk among yourselves)
Cases - Whatever they want, whatever they can afford. Just don't do the modding yourself.
PSU - This one's debatable. I just buy whichever of the two big names I can get the best deal on. Don't buy under a 350w power supply...
Well there are just *tons* of stuff to get to here, and I've been writing on and off since 0300. Ask questions if you want. NO, I will NOT sell someone a computer online. PM me if you want about building, but you WILL get a stern NO if you ask me to build you one. I'm just not comfortable dealing with people here. (Sorry)
Well! It went from "tips on" to "how I think you should do it if you do" ROTFLMAO!
About myself and why I do this
I'm a 19 year old college student. I don't make tons or even a little money off of building computers. It's really just enough to keep a few dollars in my pockets for a little while. That's the key to everything really. You can't expect to make money; making money is really only a side dish. The MAIN reason I (and a few friends) do this is simply because I like the computer exposure. I like working with everything.
Really it's like a hobby that doesn’t take up tremendous amounts of time. I have other hobbies I can waste the rest of my life on, but once you get it down pat, it really doesn’t take much more than an hour to have windows OS loaded on a fast computer. Two hours on a bad install.
Dealing with people
Now then! Most people will think it's really interesting that you can build and fix computers... Trusting you to build their own is an entirely different matter in itself. Really, you can talk "big brand" computers down fairly easy just by saying what they are. They're generally the cheapest acceptable parts that can be found. That leads to bad performance and questionable reliability.
Cost is a big factor in today's market. Computers have drastically come down in price over my lifetime, but $1000-$2000 is still a hefty investment for most people. Cost can be the deal maker and breaker. It's your biggest advantage and your strongest point of sale. You need to BE current with your prices or have the ability to get them fast. (Pricewatch.com takes care of this)
Now I have the luxury of having tens of thousands of broke people with broke parents living in a relatively small area. (Gotta love college!) People in our situation absolutely *have* to have a computer. It's just not something you can get through school without anymore.
We register classes on them, we do research and papers on them. Now we f'ing email them in and get them back graded LoL! The simple fact of college's now is that it doesn’t matter if you want to use a computer, at some point you're going to *have* to use them.
(O.K. so now I've that yall know who I generally sell to, it's obviously I'm not always selling high end stuff)
Get to know who you're selling! That's so important! I don't try to sell every1 top end equipment. It's OUR job to learn what THEY need to be done and find the hardware to do it with. If you know what they need, you won't under or over sell them. That means they're likely to be the happiest they can be with your stuff.
(Example)
Most of my stuff is built for college students. That means the general daily uses are web surfing, chatting, word processing. Sound and video processing. I really try not to sell or build stuff that won't meet those criteria. You really get into the low end and people will generally not be satisfied with it. Personally I won't build something if I know if it can't run:
Q3A - It's dated and should run on about anything
DIVX/MPEG-4 WITH MP3 - This is the hardest test and not all will pass. If it can play a divx and an mp3 at the same time, you got a winner. It's ok if one doesn’t. Just keep them able to run Divx/mpeg-4 videos at full screen with no slowdowns or skips.
Warranties, Contracts and Legal Stuffiez!
This is the dreaded part. I tend to sell to family, friends and friends of friends. That's a huge weight off my shoulders, because I'm by nature very good at judging people.
Warranties. I give none. It's just that simple. It's imperative that you explain what you're doing and what they're getting. I make a list of all included hardware, where it was bought and when it was delivered to me! Give the buyers a copy also. Even if you're buying hardware OEM style, check the warranty information on it. Normally you get 7-15 days on CPU's and 15-30 days on most other hardware.
If you're working with a larger price range. Then you should do your research on buying retail hardware and its warranties also. You should also know how much upgrade warranties cost. When I can get the retail hardware in their price range, I give them the choice. Most people that can afford it in the price range they give you will take it. It's just imperative that they understand it's a manufacture's warranty *not yours*!!! Let them know if something breaks that you'll do the best you can in getting them a replacement from the company you bought it from.
Contracts. I don't use them. Then again with witnesses, word of mouth in Alabama is just as good "technically". It's my feeling that you should know they're serious before you go order parts. You should also know it's clear with whoever the money's coming from (girlfriend/boyfriend, parents) YOU need to ACTUALLY know they've gotten the OK from whoever is paying it. There really is no need for a contract. If you keep it simple and are honest and upfront with the people you're dealing with, you shouldn't need one.
Legal stuff. I don't know any! Don't screw people! Give them a parts list. I *do* include prices. This is really debatable, but I find it keeps people from thinking they just got screwed. If it's a close friend/family I rarely if ever charge my time. (Which as you'll see will be very little) If they want to give me something for my troubles, that's up to them. Whatever they think is fair is fine. For other people I don't charge much. It really depends on their budget
Remember if you say you can build a $1000 computer, to them YOU'RE included in that LoL! I personally don't ever include more than $100 in it for me. $20-$50 is just fine.*DO NOT sell someone an overclocked computer without EXPLAINING IT, EVERY ASPECT AND RISK. That's why most CPU's come with multipliers. Resellers selling overclocked CPU's and a higher price CPU and keeping the difference. You'll also have your a$s handed to you IN COURT by:
Me - because you're a D!ck and read my guide
Buyers - because you screwed them. False advertising, which btw is a FEDERAL CRIME if it's paid for via Money Order, or shipped VIA US gov postal service.
Government - Yes the government can jail/fine you.
<insert cpu maker here> - because I forget why, but I remember they can!
Back to business!
Ok! So! Find your parts supplier. I *really* suggest not finding the best deal on pricewatch.com, unless it's really worth it. I generally stick with people I buy my own hardware from because I don't mind paying a 5-10% premium over the best pricewatch prices. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice sham on me." I've been burned on a small handful of shady deals in my life (not selling computers) to me I like giving my money to people I like. I like the places I by from because I like their policy's, how they handle my business, and how they handle problems. I'll leave yall to find your own places to buy from...
Tips on building
I'm assuming everyone knows how to build a computer. I'll just contribute some useful info.
#1 Keep fan noise down. Remember you're competing with the *ultra *****ty* cooling of the big OEM guys. The average person isn't use to hearing even 40db of noise with they're computer running. Stick with low speed 80mm fans all the way around. *very* low 92mm's can be considered. Stay away from even medium speed 120mm fans. The rush of air is louder than what most people want I find.
One of the few things I've learned is that you really need to set aside $40 from the beginning on the best LOW SPEED/NOISE HSF you can get. Yall can do that info for yourselves also.
#2 Make a CD of little programs that everyone uses.
#3 Make a CD with every driver that you will possibly need. REFERANCE ONLY!
Software
The main problem in home built computers is that there is no way possible to compete with OEM prices on software. Do whatever you can to get the real stuff. <cough> You don’t want some1 installing the XP service pack only to find that CD key is banned…
You’re left up to do what you can on the software side. I won’t say anything about what to do anymore than I already DID NOT hint at.
I will say that no matter what, you should NOT sell someone something without them knowing EXACTLY what it is. That’s false advertisement and can lead you to *huge* problems. As in you a$s will be in jail for a good many years and when you finally get out you’ll be banned from using computers for a time.
Hardware
I'm an unbiased person. I don't care what I buy. Brand loyalty is important to me personally, but only because it's hard to get mine. With that being said, yall should take that attitude also. Don't talk an Intel freak into an amd computer. Give them what they want.
CPU - I will say that because price is our biggest leverage, that almost always means going with an AMD based computer. Intel's have come down, but I find it hard to argue with the # of sub $60 good performance CPU's you can get from AMD right now.
Motherboard - Hard call here. I'm an Abit guy in my own computers... I tend to stick with the big names, or good deals. I've done several nForce motherboards in the past year. I tend to like the MSI boards. Bios flashing and whole upgrade drivers from windows is a good thing to non-techies. I just set task scheduler to upgrade over two months or so.
Memory - Like motherboards, you just can't skimp and get a no-name. 99% of all memory comes with a lifetime warranty, that doesn’t mean it'll last 5 min after it's out of your hands. Any big name is fine, just find the best deal on it (the 10% off prices you find at hardware review sites and forums for Crucial + free 2-day fed-ex is hard to argue with)
Video - So shoot me, but I've only built ONE computer with an ATI card in it. Even that was the TV Wonder card. I have nothing against ATI. It's just that the reason Nvidia is where they're at today (with me) is because they've released good drivers for YEARS. Really there is no reason debating this... You can't argue with the facts. ATI's new driver and driver people seem to be doing a great job. I wish them all the luck in the world, but that doesn’t give them a *track record* of doing the a-aforementioned things.
Sound – Sound Blaster Live Value is what I normally use. Cheapness and quality help out here. *note* Drivers were originally shoddy in XP, so you better have new ones and the upgrade to it on your driver CD.
Hard drives - Just find something. Price/performance/space. This is where you'll do more research on your own. I will step out on a limb (from personal experiences) that after a CPU upgrade, older computers *seem* to gain more performance with a faster hard drive, not more ram. (Talk among yourselves)
Cases - Whatever they want, whatever they can afford. Just don't do the modding yourself.
PSU - This one's debatable. I just buy whichever of the two big names I can get the best deal on. Don't buy under a 350w power supply...
Well there are just *tons* of stuff to get to here, and I've been writing on and off since 0300. Ask questions if you want. NO, I will NOT sell someone a computer online. PM me if you want about building, but you WILL get a stern NO if you ask me to build you one. I'm just not comfortable dealing with people here. (Sorry)
Well! It went from "tips on" to "how I think you should do it if you do" ROTFLMAO!
