SOLVED Trying to understand 4 Rail PSU

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

Hey guys , finally gotten my new PSU , Enermax NAXN 82+ 850W.

It's a 4 Rail PSU , as i asked many people before , there's no worry for Power Distribution for my system as it's not so power hungry.

But i would really like to understand how does this PSU does it's Power Distribution.

For im still rather confuse.

So since it's a 4 Rail it's rated

+12V1 - 20A
+12V2 - 20A
+12V3 - 30A
+12V3 - 30A

The Native Cables are

24P Mobo
1X 8P CPU
1X 4+4P CPU
2X 6+2P GPU

On the PSU , the Modular sockets are

5X SATA / Molex / FDD
2X CPU / GPU

On the Modular socket of the PSU there is 5X HDD / Molex are written on top +12V4 , while the 2X GPU / CPU is written +12V3 and +12V4....

So does that mean the +12V4 Rail is powering up for both HDD / Molex and GPU sockets ??

But as for GPU section , it have the +12V3 Rail to give more juice then ?

Also where is +12V1 and +12V2 , the Native cables are using them ??

 

[Evilsizer]

it really is one single large rail but as they lable 4 rails. they have 4 sets of 12v wires, each one getting a current limiter. this ensures that no one set of wires is pulling more current then they can actually handle. this is for fire safty reasons, since they use such a small gauge wire. which is fine given the short runs in a pc computer case. it isnt like tring to power you car amp that may still pull 30amps but due to the longer distance for the wire, you go with a thicker wire.

looking at the full number of cables on the site, while i can not find a close up of the break down like your talking about. with the sheer number of cables, it makes no sense to share the hdd connections with the cpu. should be one rail for all the hdd/fdd connections, one for the cpu, one/two for the gpus. from what it sounds like one rail is for the gpu only on the 12v3. while 12v4 is for the cpu/hdd connections, this would make no sense then as you have 2 unused rails. which is what i said it makes more sense to do it the other route.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

it really is one single large rail but as they lable 4 rails. they have 4 sets of 12v wires, each one getting a current limiter. this ensures that no one set of wires is pulling more current then they can actually handle. this is for fire safty reasons, since they use such a small gauge wire. which is fine given the short runs in a pc computer case. it isnt like tring to power you car amp that may still pull 30amps but due to the longer distance for the wire, you go with a thicker wire.

looking at the full number of cables on the site, while i can not find a close up of the break down like your talking about. with the sheer number of cables, it makes no sense to share the hdd connections with the cpu. should be one rail for all the hdd/fdd connections, one for the cpu, one/two for the gpus. from what it sounds like one rail is for the gpu only on the 12v3. while 12v4 is for the cpu/hdd connections, this would make no sense then as you have 2 unused rails. which is what i said it makes more sense to do it the other route.

Yeah i agree im really confused now that i see the real thing.
The 12V1 and 12V2 seems to be missing , but could it be using for the Native cables ?

But as you said it seems the 5X HDD / Molex are using the 12V4 Rail , but the 2X CPU / GPU ( Modular ones ) are using both 12V3 and 12V4 ( As it labeled on top the Modular Socket ) , so as you said above does it means that they actually combined the 12V3 and 12V4 to power up the extra GPU / CPU then ?

If that's the case that this 2X GPU / CPU Modular Socket are actually producing 60 AMP ? They are rated 30 AMP ea on the 12V3 and 12V4

For them to use the12V4 @ 30 AMP Rail for HDD / Molex , maybe it's make thing easy , that is what i think , since it produces 30AMP , i doubt it will have any problems powering up load of fans , HDD etc lol.

Hmm i wonder will this able help you with the breakdown of the PSU

http://www.enermax.com/files/ProductFile_eng/PF_File/415.pdf

I wonder this pic be any more help , its rather blur though....

http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/enermax-naxn-850w-power-supply-review/3/

http://www.kitguru.net/components/power-supplies/zardon/enermax-naxn-850w-power-supply-review/3/

 

[Evilsizer]

i see from looking at the pics but cant read some stuff on the label to small for my eyes. basicly what i see from that review the non-modular cables coming out of the psu. are for the cpu and one set for your pcie gpu power connections. those would be your 12v1 and 12v2 rails. the rest from the label would be 12v3 for the hdd/odd and they say cpu but i think they ment something else and is a miss print. since from the rest of the pics of the cables i see no other cpu power connections. the rest are for your gpus, ie the red connectors that plug to the psu.

break down looks more like i said that makes sense to me.... 12v1 is for your cpu which maynot be labled but is clear from the non modular cables. they then use 12v2 for the non modular red pcie power connectors. then 12v3 for your hdd's ect and 12v4 for the rest of the gpus. it does seem by the labling that the 12v4 rail and 12v3 rails might have some flexiablity. as in if the 12v3 rail isnt loaded that much it could provide a bit more power to the 12v4 rail. the only way to find this out is with some testing and looking over the psu internals (DONT OPEN IT WILL VOID YOUR WARRENTY!!!). im heading to bed but look over at jonnyguru.com and see if they reviewed that psu, they go into great detail about psus. if they havent then maybe they have one in the pipe line (we can hope). manufactures dont always make things so clear cut. have you emailed them to see what they say?

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

So do you think this PSU is enough power to do a Xfire setup ?

And i be installing quite lot of fans too...around 9 fans in total with fan controllers , but i think they don't need much amp right ? How you tell how much amp dose your fan needs?
Is it the one written " Input Current : 0.15 A " ?

Take this for an example , this are one of the fans im using

http://www.phanteks.com/PH-F140TS.html

But overall i think it's should be more than enough , for as it be using 12V4 Rail which produces 30A , while the GPU ones combining 12V4 and 12V3 together producing 60A am i right ?

 

[Evilsizer]

sorry lost track of your post, your pcu is over kill for your setup. you could get away with the psu im running even with nine fans.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

sorry lost track of your post, your pcu is over kill for your setup. you could get away with the psu im running even with nine fans.

Yeah i know , sort of complicated story....i was sort of under budget , a 650W Gold be too expensive for me at the moment , then i wanted to go for a Xigmatek Centauro 700W , but supplier here is out of stock !

So i was kinda in a rush , since he had a Enermax Naxn 850W offer for the price of a Naxn 750W , since the 750W too is out of stock , so i though i just grab this one since it's cheap , yet it is 850W and it's from Enermax

Got it for only 133$ a great deal if i must say so myself

Anyways got it up and running , been like 3 days now ,everything seems fine, no sudden shutdown etc.

Have all fans running

I have a pic over at FB , cable management is horrible though

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0906099897745.430906.686112744&type=3&theater

One problem though , this could be normal , i contacted NZXT but still no reply from them.....about the NZXT Sentry Mesh fan controller, i had it hooked up to all 5 Fans, it is maximum 30W per channel for the controller.

Problem is , 2 of my Enermax T.B Apollish fans , when the controller it's running on lowest 40% , it doesn't work at all , i had to crank it up all the way to 100% at then it only working properly.

If i only have it at like 50 - 60% , the fan runs slowly , LED won't light up , around 80% LED light up but it blinks , as if it's lack of power.....

Im not very sure how fan controller works....but what's the problem do you think here ? Is this a normal thing ? I read the back of the packaging , i think it wrote that it actually controls the fan voltage ? So does that mean this sort of symptoms is due to the fact it didn't had enough voltage on the fan if i didn't crank it up to 100% ?

 

[Evilsizer]

there are different ways a fan controller can work, either by controlling voltage or current. the last way would be using a 4pin pwm fan which has a dedicated fan control circute on board. which channels on the controller are doing this? have you swapped those two fans to different channels to see if they do the same thing there or is it just isolated to those two channels on the controller? a bit of testing will help narrow things down.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

Hmm channel 3 and 4 is controlling my T.B Apollish , i haven't try swapping channels to see if there's any difference yet , might do it when im free , i have another fan controller maybe i could try them with the other one , for my NZXT Mesh channel 1 and 2 is running my other 2X T.B Silence, they too are LED , they sort of have the same problem ,but not this serious.

If they run on lowest , 40% it does run with LED ON , but if i crank it up slightly higher maybe 50% and above at then the LED will light up to the brightest , fan speed seems to be working properly , and it will run on full if i have it at 100% , it's a 1200 RPM Max , so it' pretty loud i could tell.

But the difference between my T.B Apollish and Silence is , the Silence it only have 4 LED Bulbs , while the Apollish have a long round strip going around the entire fan bracket !

So i think obvious the Apollish will suck up more power , also the thing is super bright , it lighten up my entire case ! Just with 2 fans ! Have no need for LED strips lol !

Also i notice one thing , but i think this is pretty normal , couldn't do anything bout it , just want be sure though.

Have ever heard sort of soft buzzing noise when you go very near to electrical sockets on wall ?
Well my NZXT Mesh fan controller does that if i have it above 40% or below 100% if it's set to LOWEST / HIGHEST , there won't be any of those sound though , except in the mid range 50 - 90%.
Do you think they are the same sound as the ones from our electrical wall sockets ? Sounded same to me , by the way im from Asia so im running 240V.
And my PSU have this sort of sound too , the Enermax one and the Seasonic one both had it.

 

[Evilsizer]

never had any buzz from the electrical outlet, but are you sure it isnt coil noise. as coils in the psu can make a type of whine almost but is really high pitched. normally happens with non-encapuslated coils, be it psu's, motherboards, gpus.

yea starting to sound like the led's are getting enough voltage when they do that. leds like to be current controlled. dont think there is much you can do about the fans, sounds like the mesh is doing its job. :x

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

never had any buzz from the electrical outlet, but are you sure it isnt coil noise. as coils in the psu can make a type of whine almost but is really high pitched. normally happens with non-encapuslated coils, be it psu's, motherboards, gpus.

yea starting to sound like the led's are getting enough voltage when they do that. leds like to be current controlled. dont think there is much you can do about the fans, sounds like the mesh is doing its job. :x

I heard of coil whines before those are worst , they are very loud and annoying !
But i don't have those problems with mine. They almost like follows the amount of load you put on , the more the worst lol....those are rather obvious too...

The one i speak of ,isn't so much , but if you go very very near almost your ear touches the appliance , and must be rather quiet too the room , ah at the moment you can hear them.

Im pretty sure they are the same sound , i asked my dad and brother to check it out , they said this are normal. I guess it can't be help either. But luckily it isn't obvious loud like coil whines....but i guess if there is problems my PC be on fire or something by now lol right ?

About the controller , i guess so too...since most fans runs at 12V at full , i guess the minimum Voltage for the Apollish are rather high...i mean to perform like a normal fan with all LED light up etc. But luckily it's only a 900 RPM fan , so i had them at the fullest now i still won't able to hear them

And yet NZXT still have no reply...i heard some said they have bad customer support...this is my first time buying from NZXT , you have any experience from them ??

EDIT : Ah i found the problem lol , i believe they called it " Ground Loop " or something like that , i found this vid on YouTube, i have the same buzzing sound like this in the video. But , it's not from my speakers rather from my electrical outlet / appliance like my NZXT Mesh / PSU

As i stated im using 240V , so we usually have Ground connection too.

( I haven't watch the entire vid though not very sure what he trying to do but the noise is same as mine )

 

[Evilsizer]

What you may need to look for then is some type of ground isolator.

 

[Gh0sT-NoVa]

What you may need to look for then is some type of ground isolator.

Yeah i guess so , but since it isn't very loud specially not producing by my speakers i guess it's ok. And most importantly the fan controller is not caught up in flame or something like that

Overall problem solved, tks for the help

Now if i can do something about cable management....