Windows Vista "longhorn"

[MRD]

And MRD, you can stop trolling. You post in just about every Windows thread saying it sucks. Get a life.

M$ presents a very real thread to our fundamental freedoms as a digital society. They are quite willing to sell us out for profit and power. From reading this thread, pretty much everyone agrees that DRM sucks except maybe one other person in this thread. I personally don't see how DRM can be defended, but if you have good arguments, feel free to post, and we can discuss this in a civil manner, avoiding personal attacks.

DRM is a violation of basic civil rights. It is my firm belief that if people all understood it, they would soundly reject it. This is the M$ forum, so this is where we should be discussing M$'s implementation of DRM and how it will affect all of us.

I don't really care if you like my ideas or not. The person who started this thread asked people for their opinions on Vista. I gave mine. If you have a different one, feel free to give yours too. People should feel free to give their opinions, positive or negative, on such a thread.

 

[Enablingwolf]

I believe we are at the stage like when Whitsler went gold. Everyone was saying how crappy it was and all the new items it had over its replacement. Now everyone and their grandmas are on it.

I was slow to transform to it. I stuck out the 9X wagon for a time. I wonder how many use it over 9X now. Vista will have the same path as all of MS products. 50% will laude it 50% will say it is the crumiest product ever. Once it is mature, everyone will be mentioning it is the proper OS upgrade path.

This one might be different, but I believe the past will be as ever in future products from Redmond. Remember the activation hubbub?

I am more curious of the future of the product than its current state. Look at XP compared to 3 years ago.

 

[MRD]

I really think that long term, the restrictive measures that M$ is placing in Vista will doom them. Look at Divx (the CD's you could only play once, not the video format). Consumers really weren't interested in more restrictive products, and no one bought them. If Vista is slower (because of all the encryption) and doesn't let you do stuff that other OS's do because of M$'s desire to place corporate greed (their own and others') over civil rights, I don't think consumers will buy it.

As I posted in another thread, currently Office XP makes up only 15% of the Office users 2 years into its life. M$ is very concerned that people don't see a need to upgrade. People haven't bothered to upgrade, as older versions are simply "good enough". Windows is a fairly mature product. I don't think there is a lot now being added to it in the way of critical features. I just don't think most people will care enough to buy it.

 

[Enablingwolf]

Right now since it is still only the Beta1. I think it is way early to pass judgment on speeds. Beta2 will be the make or break, since it is about ready for release. Only a few tweaks and it is off to the presses. I honestly think majors parts of the OS will suck. Will it make the whole thing suck? I don't know. It might be the next candy, if not there is other things besides Windows for computers. Any geeky user willing to try a Beta of Windows will try the other side of computer OS's. Unless of course they are hard core Windows folks.

Most of the cool stuff I heard of for Vista, is not in the beta and won't be for a while. If Beta2 ships without the fancy candy then we know it is going to be poo for the first 6 months of it release. Remember how much was given in credit how much it will offer over XP, and the relality is.. well we mostly know already. I belive right now Vista stinks!! It will for many months to come yet. Some of the built in features do not appeal to me, whatso ever. Not as some in this thread have mentioned. It is the security products(virus and spyware) bundled inside of it, or the talk thereof. MS is not my first pick for security. They are average or slightly below IMO. Unless they gobble up another company to meet them needs.

Im in a holding pattern for now, since it really is not a primetime OS yet.

 

[MRD]

I base my opinions on what M$ has said about the OS. The minimum requirements just to run it are enormous, and the fact that the PCI bus is no longer public, requiring encryption before sending data across it, is going to give a huge performance hit. In short, the slowdown is due to basic design choices they have made. They claim Vista won't even run without a 256 mb vid card and 2 gb of system ram.

 

[Enablingwolf]

At least 64 MB graphics memory

Required for Aero Glass experience http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/display/graphics-reqs.mspx

Longhorn Display Driver Model or Windows XP Driver Model-based driver

Required

At a minimum, the graphics device driver must use the Windows XP Driver Model. Graphics hardware will only be used when the appropriate driver is present; otherwise, content will be rendered through software emulation. An accepted driver is either:

Hardware that uses a Windows XP Driver Model driver and meet the Windows Logo Program graphics requirements for Windows XP, as tested under HCT 11.1 or later.

Recommended: Driver based on Longhorn Display Driver Model.
At least 32 MB graphics memory

Required
Support at least 32 bits per pixel (bpp)

Required
Support 3D hardware acceleration with capabilities equal to DirectX 9

Required

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/evaluate/hardware/vistarpc.mspx

• CPU — PC systems should have a modern CPU.


• RAM — PC systems should have 512MB of memory or more.

GPU — PC systems should have a graphics processor that will support Windows Vista Display Driver Model.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/windowsvista/evaluate/hardware/vistarpc.mspx
That is right off the MS site. Not to bad, we both know that is the minimum for running it. Even XP wants 128 megs or more and is comfy at thrice the minimum requirement.

 

[MRD]

Interesting, that's different than the info that was posted here from a transcript with one of the devs for longhorn. What you posted is likely more accurate. However, my guess is it will run pretty badly with those minimum requirements. That is still a very demanding OS, and it bothers me that what makes it so demanding is not all the new features but rather all the new restrictions. Why should I pay money to lose freedoms? None of the advantages to Vista seem very compelling to me.

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

Beta 2 wont make or break it, since there will be a beta 3 and then likely 3 or 4 RC releases. not to mention the numerous beta 1 build releses / beta 2 build releases.

 

[Enablingwolf]

Beta 2 wont make or break it, since there will be a beta 3 and then likely 3 or 4 RC releases. not to mention the numerous beta 1 build releses / beta 2 build releases.

I have only read of the Beta2, nothing beyond that. I still belive by the time it hits 2 it should be ready to debug drivers. Most of the core components will be in place and ready to ship. Is there any word of the RC releases?

I haven't heard of the time table on them yet, or of a 3rd Beta. I am going off what is public right now. The rumors are sometimes not completely on the mark. Least the press reports are half-@zzed close.

 

[BigAir]

I loaded Vista up on a 3500+ here in the shop and it made it look silly. I would compare it to loading XP Home on a PII 350.. Pretty damn slow.

 

[BigAir]

Oh yeah, My 3500+ had 2gb of RAM which did nothing to help...

 

[d94]

damn

 

[mayerfan76]

I heard a rumor that sounds way untrue, but with all the DRM we have heard about, it may not be that crazy. I have *heard* that if you try and register a non-legit version of Vista beta with microsoft, you computers CPU and MOBO serial numbers are copied and from that point on blackballed with M$. Anyone else heard this?

 

[gt24]

I heard a rumor that sounds way untrue, but with all the DRM we have heard about, it may not be that crazy. I have *heard* that if you try and register a non-legit version of Vista beta with microsoft, you computers CPU and MOBO serial numbers are copied and from that point on blackballed with M$. Anyone else heard this?

I didn't know that many processors had serial numbers... much less motherboards. Besides, this would cause issues with anybody buying used computer parts... Have a legal Vista refusing to boot after a CPU upgrade would ceratinly tick off a person or two.

The ultimate edition won't have activation anyways... this was off an article at winsupersite.com.

Anyways, so much is still unknown right now (final system requirements, compatibility, DRM, everything like that) to the point where I am giong to wait until Vista hits the stores before reading reviews and making upgrade decisions.

One interesting thought though... if Vista kicks the HECK out of any systems that it is running on, then I bet gaming performance would really suffer. If that is the case, people won't upgrade and the PC market would undergo a difficult period. With the next generation consoles comming out, people will just go to the simpler, cheaper, and easier video gaming consoles for their video game fix. Luckly, there is a lovely XBox waiting for you... Microsoft provides solutions for their own problems this way, right?

If Microsoft doesn't watch it though, an x86 version of Macintosh OS X (which will come out sooner or later) can get a decent amount of market share before Microsoft fixes things. "Macintosh... your computer actually works, it's that simple"....

Thus, I have a feeling that Microsoft will manage to make Vista an ok operating system... after all, they have a decent amount to loose if they goof up.

 

[sirjinx1974]

I dont know about anybody else, but, I thought if I buy something with my money I own it?? If I buy something and I own it, this means I can do anything I want with it. I can not believe M$ is trying to control the internet and how people use the internet. I can see the need to try and stop hackers and people who steal media and give it away, but where is the line that says you can use the internet, but you can not watch any movies or listen to any kind of music. People have been copying movies and music since time began. I remember when the beta players came out and people would buy two beta's so they could copy movies since each movies was around $75-$100 each. I remember people would buy two Tape players so they could copy music. Copying movies and music is nothing new.

 

[MRD]

Microsoft is already running into upgrade problems. Just 15% of Office users are using the current Office XP, 2 yrs into it's life. People find the older versions "good enough".

This problem is only going to get worse as time passes, and will hurt M$'s ability to sustain long term profits.

 

[sirjinx1974]

If M$ is going to make us buy a new monitor so we can get HD quality then what will this do with the future games that are going to come out in HD? I do not see spending money on a new monitor and hardware just so I can play a stupid game. This is B-S!!

 

[cliffboss]

that is very true,they should not have it that way. beside there is always away round things

 

[Scott9027]

The more we speculate about what the DRM etc. might be like with Vista, the more rumors and lies we will hear about it before it comes out. I'm not worrying about anything that doesn't come from a reputable source regarding DRM or anything else in Windows Vista.

 

[Captain Newbie]

I don't think that the CPUID instruction as it stands now issues forth some sort of unique serial number, but rather the standard GenuineIntel or AuthenticAMD followed by a bunch of capability information depending on the value in EAX. (CPUID does different things based on the value stored in the 'accumulator' register of x86 processors. 0x1, for instance, does the vendor strings, 0x2 does other things, etc.) Although there are the mysterious 'reserved' values that you Are Not Supposed To Use when using CPUID.

Scary.

I'd like to see Microsoft come out publicly and say "yes, this is the DRM we will have", but I don't think that will happen anytime soon.