Murky Res Water w/silver & PTN??

BobbyBubblehead · Oct 7, 2014

Silver needs hydrogen sulfide to tarnish possibly caused anerobic digestion.
Hydrogen sulfide results from the breakdown of organic matter.
If your water smells of sulfer then some organic contaminant has resided in your loop.

Silver can't tarnish from oxygen alone and hydrogen sulfide is formed in the absence of oxygen.

Edit: silver tests

No1 strong magnet e.g. Neodymium magnet - silver is paramagnetic (it shouldn't be attracted to the magnet due to it's low field.

No2 ice should begin to melt as if it's above room temperature due to silvers high conductivity.

GTXJackBauer · Oct 7, 2014

I would possibly order a silver coil or bullet from a reputable company as you said and see if that does anything. A real coil would and should destroy anything in the loop if there was any growth.

What metals are used in your loop? Its possible that it could have been some type of corrosion.

GearingMass · Oct 7, 2014

BobbyBubblehead said:
Silver needs hydrogen sulfide to tarnish possibly caused anerobic digestion.
Hydrogen sulfide results from the breakdown of organic matter.
If your water smells of sulfer then some organic contaminant has resided in your loop.

Silver can't tarnish from oxygen alone and hydrogen sulfide is formed in the absence of oxygen.

Edit: silver tests

No1 strong magnet e.g. Neodymium magnet - silver is paramagnetic (it shouldn't be attracted to the magnet due to it's low field.

No2 ice should begin to melt as if it's above room temperature due to silvers high conductivity.

Ok, so the silver won't stick to the magnet in the slightest, and it immediately melts ice, so I'm inclined to believe it's real silver. Which worries me then, because I have no idea why the silver isn't killing whatever's in there.
I was hot-swapping water out earlier through the res with the pump running, and at no point do I remember the water smelling like sulfur. Kinda old/musky, sure, but no sulfur that I can tell.

GTXJackBauer said:
I would possibly order a silver coil or bullet from a reputable company as you said and see if that does anything. A real coil would and should destroy anything in the loop if there was any growth.

What metals are used in your loop? Its possible that it could have been some type of corrosion.

It's all copper and I think one piece if a different type of metal, but it's not the one that's way different than the others and causes quick corrosion. I remember checking that before I ordered it all.
If it was corrosion, would it create this greenish color?

Should I try dropping biocide in there again?

GearingMass · Oct 7, 2014

Everything is copper, except the rads are copper and brass cores. Since XSPS puts those together in their product, I figured they're fine.
Aluminum was the one I was thinking of, that'll quickly corrode with the other metals - there's no aluminum in my loop.

BobbyBubblehead · Oct 7, 2014

maybe its plasticiser from the tubing causing the discoloration?

has to at least become acidic to get that kind of reaction going off.

has to be leeching from something :-/

GearingMass · Oct 7, 2014

BobbyBubblehead said:
maybe its plasticiser from the tubing causing the discoloration?

has to at least become acidic to get that kind of reaction going off.

has to be leeching from something

Hmm, that would be odd. It's quality Primochill tubing.
Barring replacing all the tubing, what would you recommend I do? Throw in some anti-corrosive? Add some biocide or leave the silver coil?

BobbyBubblehead · Oct 7, 2014

biocide and silver coil. that should make sure it`s not organic in origin.
then if it clouds again it has to be plasticiser... maybe just a bad batch of tubing.

if you do end up completely breaking down the loop at least you can inspect all the metal components for corrosion.

GearingMass · Oct 8, 2014

Two questions:

1) If I do end up having to replace the tubing, can I use the rest of the tubing I have from the original order, or is that all compromised and I should just order new tubing?

2) If it is biological and I do end up killing it, and what's there already is little enough to not really affect load temps, do I need to break down all the parts and clean them out, or would it be good enough to flush new water through with more biocide and call it a day?

BobbyBubblehead · Oct 8, 2014

well were into throwing around vague theories and speculation here.

I would have thought if it`s loppy tubing it would stop leeching at some point maybe.

as for temps I`d have thought negligible to undetectable differences... its more the possibility of gunking up your blocks that's the concern.

just flush it out and fill up... run it and observe what happens

GearingMass · Oct 8, 2014

Roger that! Just flushed it and added a good serving of biocide - we'll see what happens!

BobbyBubblehead · Oct 8, 2014

just note your temps and keep an eye on the loop for foreign particles and clouding... it can only be so many variables to rule out

GearingMass · May 13, 2015

Well, after almost 7 long months of not having the time to touch my computer, I have finally turned it back on and the following is what the water looks like:

I knew it was going to look something awful, but I'm glad it's really orange rather than really green.

I'm guessing there's some kind of corrosion in the loop as opposed to a biological agent. What do you guys think?

GearingMass · May 14, 2015

This morning I fired it back up, and the water cleared a little, but there's a definite buildup of some kind of orange grainy substance. Rust?

Soulcatcher668 · May 14, 2015

It looks like rouging to me.

Are there stainless steel pieces in your system?

GearingMass · May 15, 2015

Not that I'm aware of, but I'll have to double check the specs of everything I put in there. Possibly some of the fittings?

I'm guessing I'm going to have to break this loop down and clean everything out either way. If I break this down and find the rouging (if that's the problem), would cleaning everything and replacing the part most likely solve the problem?

Soulcatcher668 · May 15, 2015

Drain and clean the loop. You should not have to replace anything.

You can run a vinegar solution through and then flush with distilled water.

If stainless steel is not passivated, rouging can occur. The vinegar will work as a make shift passivation fluid. It's not perfect, but it should do the trick.

t1nm4n · May 15, 2015

Based on the colors, I would be inclined to say you got some distilled water that had some other chemicals in it. There is some sort of chemical reaction occurring in your loop. The sediment almost looks like rust to me. Flush a few times, try changing the brand of distilled water. I'm sure Canada has some sort of regulatory rules regarding labeling of products, some distilled waters might not be distilled, they might be chemically treated and mis-labeled. I'd recommend trying a different brand, maybe checking to see if there is a medical supply center to by some over priced distilled water. Definatly flush and remove those particles as best as you can. I'm curious what caused this though.

Edit: I wonder if it is sore sort of chlorine reaction to the biocide, for some reason that's what that murky color reminds me of. just a thought.

GTXJackBauer · May 15, 2015

GearingMass said:
I'm guessing I'm going to have to break this loop down and clean everything out either way.

I would have done a tear down originally. It looks like a continuing problem from the start. Something is not right.

GearingMass · May 16, 2015

Soulcatcher668 said:
Drain and clean the loop. You should not have to replace anything.

You can run a vinegar solution through and then flush with distilled water.

If stainless steel is not passivated, rouging can occur. The vinegar will work as a make shift passivation fluid. It's not perfect, but it should do the trick.

t1nm4n said:
Based on the colors, I would be inclined to say you got some distilled water that had some other chemicals in it...

GTXJackBauer said:
I would have done a tear down originally. It looks like a continuing problem from the start. Something is not right.

Thank you all for the input. I'm trying to put a plan together in my head. I've got a couple of questions:

If I drain and flush the loop with fresh distilled water and then a vinegar solution enough times, is that most likely going to do the trick in clearing everything out and passivating the loop, or would there be additional benefit it open up the CPU block and rads and shaking a vinegar solution through those separately? I guess I'm asking if there's going to be material that I'll catch if I actually take the loop out and open up what I can vs. just draining it all several times with solution until it looks clean?

If you have a more coherent plan of action that what I'm saying, I'm all ears. Haha Also I'll look more closely at the distilled water I have.

Edit: What should the final fluid composition of the loop look like - distilled and biocide (any vinegar or an anti corrosive additive fluid?)?

Soulcatcher668 · May 16, 2015

If it were my loop.... I would take everything apart and clean it.

Start from scratch.

Murky Res Water w/silver & PTN??

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