Also, it looks like the pump on the pump/res combo is warranty-void via sticker if I crack it open. Now that I don't have to RMA it for a crack, is it worth opening and cleaning it all out, or just soak the whole thing in vinegar solution and hope it cleaning out the pump well enough?
Edit: Another option, just to put it out there: I did order a bottle of Primochill sys prep just to have it ($6 ) and that could be another option to clean everything out a little bit more after I've torn down and cleaned everything. I know it's generally advised to put as few chemicals in your loop as possible, so I probably won't use it, but I thought I'd mention.
Also GTX, where did you actually mount your temp monitor screen and how? I was thinking of maybe sticking it to the top of my res or possibly on the inside of the drive bay door.
Also, it looks like the pump on the pump/res combo is warranty-void via sticker if I crack it open. Now that I don't have to RMA it for a crack, is it worth opening and cleaning it all out, or just soak the whole thing in vinegar solution and hope it cleaning out the pump well enough?
I would run distilled water through it and check and see what comes out. Do a bunch of rinses like that as I stated with the GPU for discoloring or debris, etc.
Edit: Another option, just to put it out there: I did order a bottle of Primochill sys prep just to have it ($6 ) and that could be another option to clean everything out a little bit more after I've torn down and cleaned everything. I know it's generally advised to put as few chemicals in your loop as possible, so I probably won't use it, but I thought I'd mention.
I have a few of those actually because they come free with a retail pack of Advanced LRT tubing. Thing is if I recall correctly, those cleaners can have a reaction or cause issues. I remember hearing something of that nature years back about these things. Remember, when doing custom loops, we do different things as to what a manufacturers directions might say.
Also GTX, where did you actually mount your temp monitor screen and how? I was thinking of maybe sticking it to the top of my res or possibly on the inside of the drive bay door.
Lol my bad. I was referring to the tiny little box part that displays the temp of the in-line water temp sensor you recommended from PPC. I'm wondering where I should physically mount it.
Also, I've been reading through Conumdrum's article on WC teardowns, and I'm curious about one part:
I tore down the CPU block to the tiniest screw. Almost boiled (teeny bubbles) some sink water, added 15% vinegar (just regular store cooking stuff) to the quart pan, and put ALL the metal parts, including the CPU block parts in the mix.
I can't tell if he put his fittings in the water/vinegar mix to help loosen everything up. Would it be ok to put the fittings in with the CPU block metal parts, or would the vinegar be bad for the o-rings?
I can't tell if he put his fittings in the water/vinegar mix to help loosen everything up. Would it be ok to put the fittings in with the CPU block metal parts, or would the vinegar be bad for the o-rings?
During a teardown you want to replace everything you can that's easy/cheap. O-rings are cheap, just replace them if they've been on for any length of time. Particularly if they look at all "crushed". I'd keep the rubber bits out of the vinegar bath personally, unless there was some compelling reason to toss them in there with the rest.
Lol my bad. I was referring to the tiny little box part that displays the temp of the in-line water temp sensor you recommended from PPC. I'm wondering where I should physically mount it.
Well, you could place that anywhere in your rig. I would put it somewhere you can visibly see it through the side window OR buy a drive bay frame to place it like this and have it displayed from the front. Since there is no single display and its a dual, I'd give that an excuse to buy another temp probe. I always like putting 2 minimum since they aren't the most accurate but gives you a good idea if one is off or both are fairly on, temp wise.
Also, I've been reading through Conumdrum's article on WC teardowns, and I'm curious about one part:
I can't tell if he put his fittings in the water/vinegar mix to help loosen everything up. Would it be ok to put the fittings in with the CPU block metal parts, or would the vinegar be bad for the o-rings?
I'd keep all plastics like O-rings out of the vinegar as they can deteriorate or lose their strength. Just a quick distilled wash is fine but yes the metals all can go into the mix for clean up if need to be.
I personally bought a bulk amount of O-rings and have since replaced all my O-rings on my Bitspower fittings since my last rebuild.
During a teardown you want to replace everything you can that's easy/cheap. O-rings are cheap, just replace them if they've been on for any length of time. Particularly if they look at all "crushed". I'd keep the rubber bits out of the vinegar bath personally, unless there was some compelling reason to toss them in there with the rest.
I'd keep all plastics like O-rings out of the vinegar as they can deteriorate or lose their strength. Just a quick distilled wash is fine but yes the metals all can go into the mix for clean up if need to be.
I personally bought a bulk amount of O-rings and have since replaced all my O-rings on my Bitspower fittings since my last rebuild.
The fittings definitely need a bath. A couple are just caked with the orange stuff. Well, I'll see how well it comes off with distilled and a toothbrush.
Couple Q's on the o-rings:
1) How do I determine which size(s) I'll need?
2) How do you pop them out - any particular way?
3) Do you also replace the ones inside of rotary fittings, or are we just talking about the one between the thread and the base on the outside of fittings?
4) Where does one purchase bags of these o-rings?
I use a very small flathead screwdriver for the difficult/recessed variety. Easy peasy, just don't use anything sharp when installing the new o-rings so you don't damage them.
3) Do you also replace the ones inside of rotary fittings, or are we just talking about the one between the thread and the base on the outside of fittings?
For angled fittings or any fitting with a embedded O-ring inside of it outside from the changeable ones by the threads I leave alone and buy a whole new fitting. One of my 90 degree bitspower fittings started to leak so I replaced the whole darn thing as I didn't want to take a chance replacing the internal one. Now that I think about it, all my fittings are rotary and 2 of them including the 90 degree started leaking, not realizing that I had left them in a bucket of distilled water mixed with vinegar so its safe to say those were damaged during that phase since they never leaked prior to breaking down the loop. I got lucky with the rest of the fittings but did change all the threaded o-rings regardless. These are the packs I had purchased. Obviously I would go with the o-rings from the manufacturer your fittings are from. In the end, I usually use a mixture of distilled and vinegar with a toothbrush to scrub at them.
Hmm, PPC doesn't have any Swiftech o-rings, nor does the Swiftech website. Any of the other brands more likely than any other to play well with Swiftech fittings?
Pics of the water drained out of the res flush, low rad initial drain, and upper rad initial drain, respectively.
The following are: A q-tip of the inside of a single rotary fitting that was threaded into the GPU block -- the CPU block opened up (the bottom of the acrylic part was cleaned to compare clean/dirty look).
WOW, that cpu blocked had those nice cooked colors coming out of it. I wonder if running a sewing needle through the channels of the cpu block might be safe to make sure there isn't anything wedged down inside there? Looks much better, still want to know what caused that mess.
Just a thought, if you shoot guns, you might have in your cleaning box a plastic bristled ( I think .45 cal brush would be about right sized) for cleaning the threads of your blocks and cleaning some of if not all the fittings a lil better, something like this might be good.
Did you ever open up the GPU block? I hope it faired well. Glad to see it's all getting clean and it doesn't look like it was eating away the metals, just something caked in one of the components and worked itself loose over time.
Just a thought, if you shoot guns, you might have in your cleaning box a plastic bristled ( I think .45 cal brush would be about right sized) for cleaning the threads of your blocks and cleaning some of if not all the fittings a lil better, something like this might be good.
That briefly crossed my mind and I forgot to do that. I have literally every size bore brush there is. Most are a soft metal, though. I'll have to check for plastic ones.
Did you ever open up the GPU block? I hope it faired well. Glad to see it's all getting clean and it doesn't look like it was eating away the metals, just something caked in one of the components and worked itself loose over time.
I haven't yet. Once I'm able to finish cleaning everything other than the GPU, if I still think it's the GPU block (I'm pretty sure at this point) then I'm going to contact EVGA and see what they have to say. That'll dictate how I proceed with the rest of it. They could ask me to RMA it, ask me to open up the block and report back, or say it's not under warranty/dismiss it, in which case I'll probably open up the block and clean it out then since I'd have nothing to lose. Or I could rinse it out and throw it back in with the clean parts.
I haven't yet. Once I'm able to finish cleaning everything other than the GPU, if I still think it's the GPU block (I'm pretty sure at this point) then I'm going to contact EVGA and see what they have to say. That'll dictate how I proceed with the rest of it. They could ask me to RMA it, ask me to open up the block and report back, or say it's not under warranty/dismiss it, in which case I'll probably open up the block and clean it out then since I'd have nothing to lose. Or I could rinse it out and throw it back in with the clean parts.
EVGA allows users to change the TIM as long as the GPU and block comes back to them the way they sent it out. I highly doubt they'll tell you to open the block as I said, the sticker can come off as its very hard to peel and it will go back on warped. I started to do a bit on mine on the top corner and stopped immediately as it was really hard coming off and felt like I had a mini bump in the end. I straightened it out as best I can. I would just go with a call to them and prior to this all, do some flushes and see the contaminants and color of the fluid.
I'm glad I didn't offend you by suggesting the use of gun cleaning tools, you never know who might take offense to that, lol. I bought Sonic cleaner for some testing stuff with, I imagine if I have a problem with build up I will just put all metal parts in that and let it do it's thing. The nylon bore brush came to mind cause it's a round bore your tryin clean, that and the nylon bristles would get the threading clean without damage, unless you attach it to a drill and go "Tim the too man Taylor" on it.
I've finally cleaned everything except the GPU now. I'll email EVGA tomorrow and see what they'd suggest I do with respect to the GPU.
Below are all the pics of the various fittings, and the rads; some are pre-cleaning, some are post. I can't definitively see what it is, but maybe you can - that's why I'm posting all these pics. From what I can see, it seems that everything that was immediately after the GPU in terms of flow, got coated much worse with this orange residue. That could just be because that was towards the bottom of the loop, or it could point to the GPU as the origin - not sure.
Whatever this is though, absolutely trashed the inside....everything is simply caked in the orange residue (Probably didn't help that it was sitting for months )
Couple of things to note:
1) The residue, when dry, feels pastel-like (think: crayons)
2) The residue (or whatever was in the water) seems to react with vinegar and produce a clear, blue liquid (see below)
Let's dive in.
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Here's one of the stainless steel QDC springs post-cleaning
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Inside of a QDC that was in direct contact with the flow
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QDC interal part that seemed to show, at a minimum, the loss of it's coating, if not corrosion itself. This could be a result of the initial problem, or the problem itself.
You'll notice later that this sort of thing is happening consistently in multiple fittings of different types.
Note that this is post-cleaning.
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A QDC cap, you can see the worn away ring on the inside. I believe this was post-cleaning.
____________________________________________________ Now this is where it gets interesting. I was very concerned when I saw this. It appears that inside this fitting, there was definitely some type of corrosion going on.
You'll notice both the copper-colored shavings right above the orange residue collection, as well as the green layer up against the stripped coating next to it.
Again, whether this was the original issue, or a result thereof, is unclear.
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This is the inside of one of the 45 degree fittings. It's out of focus (phone cameras struggle with macro ) but if you look you can see that the inside was rather violently scratched up. That might have been a quality control thing, I just found it interesting enough to include.
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More wearing away of the coating on a QDC as before. If you look to the bottom & right of the top face, you'll notice something that is apparent in the next photo....
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As I was cleaning, I noticed this plastic-like film coming off as I scrubbed everything with a toothbrush. Below is a collection of it I wadded up that came off the fitting. It possible the previously shown wearing away of the fitting coatings is due to the loss of this plastic film. I certainly didn't hard scrub the fittings before I put them in, so I don't know why the plastic layer is shedding like a snake.
I noticed this on several fittings, and on several more it seemed to be gone entirely.
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Here a very clear path seemed to be eroded away on the inside of this fitting.
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More wearing on the inside; this one is more gradual.
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The female to male connection between the lower rad and the incoming line from the GPU. Thick orange coating on the spots directly in contact with the flow.
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Spring system inside one half of a QDC - more wearing throughout - this was typical on almost all the QDC internals.
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An inside peek through the lower radiator inlet (fed from the GPU). Both radiators, but this one in particular....is absolutely coated in this residue to the point of almost total loss (rad dance with pre-soak in vinegar didn't put a dent in it). If the inside of the channels is anything like this, I would imagine the flow rate through them is largely compromised.
Pictured below that is the thread to the lower rad inlet.
____________________________________________________ Now SHTF. Below are pictures of the water that came out of the rads after a vinegar solution was left in them for upwards of an hour, followed by a rad dance.
If anyone knows what reacts with vinegar and results in blue liquid....
After the rads were drained, though, there wasn't even a dent put into the layer of residue caked onto the bottom of the rads
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Inside of the tubing is scorched. I'll just cut new tubing, not even going to bother trying to clean it.
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GPU inlet (from upper radiator). The GPU outlet port was considerably less caked, although to be fair, it is "upside down" compared to the inlet.
So maybe it didn't originate in the GPU block - I'm not sure.
A general pattern of erosion on the fittings seemed to present itself --- plastic film --> dark coating --> copper-color layer --> tin-colored layer (base layer?)
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Endgame:
I'd like to know what you guys think of this - I'm at a total loss here.
I'm going to email EVGA later today.
I've decided to upgrade to a 980ti & 1440p, and covert to AIO CPU cooling for the time being. This experience by no means has put a bad taste in my mouth for custom water cooling, but I've realized that I simply don't have the time to go through this whole process 1-2x a year, and I don't want the constant possibly of problems like this hanging over my head. Perhaps in a few years when things slow down, I can pick it back up. I've loved the process of custom water, I'm glad I learned it all, I'm glad I did it, I don't regret the time or money spent....but it was just the wrong time for me.
That being said, I'm not giving up, and I will be making every effort to finish diagnosing this issue and will be rebuilding the loop, albeit outside of the case. I want to finish this both for my personal knowledge, as well as for the OCF community that has been so helpful through this all.
I'm looking forward to wrapping up this nearly-year-long issue and finally finishing my rig
I appreciate all the help, and if you have any thoughts on the above, I'd love to hear it.
Wow. Sorry to say this but your loop looks completely destroyed. Its obviously corrosion and that a supposed coated piece broke out and spread it to the rest of the loop. I mean the rad looks trashed, GPU block as well etc. I mean as you can see, the CPU cleaned up with out much damage but not sure you can say the same thing for the radiator and GPU. I mean you can't get into the radiator unless you slice it in half but like I said, it looks like a goner and the GPU block unless you're able to open it up and see what you can do to salvage it. It is possible the rad can be salvaged as well but you won't know till you see the insides.
This is really unfortunate. Its very possible this started by a bad coated batch of fittings. I mean that one fitting really shows some extensive corrosion going on. It could be the startup point. I would even make a case with Swiftech on that fitting but than again, most of these companies might say you didn't use a anti-corrosive inhibitor and so its on you, etc.
I'm no expert on water cooling (by any means), but that looks to me like rust in your loop. From what kind of metal I couldn't say. I've seen my fair share of rust in plumbing though. Definitely looks like the coating came off from several of your fittings though, a shame it looks like all your troubles were caused by a manufacturing defect/bad batch of parts.
Also, the reason the Vinegar solution turned blue/turquoise was because it was reacting with the Copper in your loop. Vinegar is an acid, and it eats away at (dissolves) Copper. It's Copper Acetate mixing with the Vinegar solution as a result of the chemical reaction taking place between the two.
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) and that could be another option to clean everything out a little bit more after I've torn down and cleaned everything. I know it's generally advised to put as few chemicals in your loop as possible, so I probably won't use it, but I thought I'd mention.
)
) but if you look you can see that the inside was rather violently scratched up. That might have been a quality control thing, I just found it interesting enough to include.
