• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Getting Smaller - .90nm

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

Foxie3a

Normal Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
well, it looks like our processors will be going into the 90 nanometer stage soon..but what does that mean for performance?

And what is really 9 nanometers? that seems really small..its not the entire processor..so what is it?

And what do we gain from going smaller?

Everyone please list their ideas
 
The advantage of .9nm is that more "stuff" can be fit inside of the processor. So, higher speeds.
 
how can you fit more when it is smaller? and what is it that is getting smaller?
 
the distance between everything becomes less... instead of walking 2 blocks to get a pizza you have to walk 1 1/2 blocks... not very much of a difference but enough when you add up thousands and thousands of calculations every second...

(is this a good example or am i wayyyy off?)
 
hmm..a decrease in latency..

wouldn't this make things a lot hotter since its all so closely put together?
 
actually, if a present processor was just "shrunken" from 130nm to 90nm, there would be alittle performance improvement and also help use alot less power (which translates to heat). The transistors becomes smaller and it will require less energy (power) to switch them on and off. And since they are smaller, they can be switched on and off faster. Going to a smaller process will help make processors more complex also. Thats the main reason why newer processors get hotter than their predecessors.
 
i believe 90 nanometer refers to the size of the transistors inside the processor.
 
Where are all those technical guys on here at when you need them??? :D Probably would have more of a response if you had this moved to the CPU section. I personally have no idea. :(
 
Going from a 130 nanometer to a 90 nanometer cause a couple things to happen.

1. It costs less to make the same type of proc on the new process because its smaller, so in otherwords more bang for the buck for us or the company or both.
2. Overall smaller reduces distance between point A and point B to move a signal, so less power is needed to transmit the same information.
3. Faster operation because smaller distance to open and close transistors.
4. Well if they go smaller well of course they want to pack more on it so you get more information done per cycle or a higher rating of speed on the CPU
5. Larger caches can be put on the CPU without sacraficing huge amounts of space due to smaller process
 
Now one of the downsides of the ever shrinking process (and ever shrinking core of the processor) is the lack of surface area to cool. Intel has had a heatspreader on its processors for some time and now the athlon 64 chips have implemented a heatspreader. Imagine cooling a processor the size of a grain of rice that put out as much heat as the current ones do :eek:
 
Another problem with going to smaller process size, is that gate length gets smaller, this increases current leakage, increasing power consumption and heat output.
 
90 nm (.09 micron) usually refers to the gate length. As you are probably aware, a transistor has three parts: a source, a gate, and a drain. So the actual size of the transistor will be more than 90 nm. And with CMOS transistors (which make up most of the transistors in modern CPUs) there are actually two transistors: a pMOS and an nMOS.

What smaller transistors actually mean, as others have said, is: a) reduced power, b) increased switching speed, and c) higher circuit density.

CMOS transistors have an intrinsic capacitance. Making them smaller reduces this capacitance, so they require less current to operate. They also require less voltage to turn "on". Both of these reduce power.

Smaller transistors can switch faster (although size is certainly not the only factor). And since they're closer together, the propagation delay along the metal lines and vias can be reduced.

There are trade-offs though. When CMOS transistors switch faster, that of course means they switch more often. So more charge might be dissipated per second, even though the charge per switch has been reduced. Smaller transistors also tend to be "leakier", meaning more current flows through the transistors even when they're not switching. Making transistors less leaky slows them down though, so it's a very delicate balancing game for CPU designers.
 
Heh, except to all appearances smaller transistors no longer mean reduced power, unless you count increasing the cache size and cutting back on clockspeed in order to reduce the power consumption.

Am I the only person who saw "0.90nm" and thought "damn, who decided to start talking about sub-atomic particles"...maybe just me.
 
Gnufsh said:
Another problem with going to smaller process size, is that gate length gets smaller, this increases current leakage, increasing power consumption and heat output.

Actuallly AFAIK the smaller the proscess the more efficient it gets. It allows greater stability, less heat output, and less power reequirements. Right now i think we kinda need a 90Nm process becuase the 130 Nm process that is currently in use is getting out of date and both AMD and Intel seem to be having troubles pushing the CPU's faster, they can do it, but it isnt like the huge boom from 2.2 to 3.0 ish. What this is, is just the process in which they manufacture the Cpu's meaning that they can make the little things inside smaller, and therefore fit more. Kinda like having 3 big blocks of wood, taking up the same surface area vs. having 6 Smaller ones. so the size of the core will shrink somewhat, but it will be a long time until it gets REALLY small. And in some cases it even gets bigger for example the amd K8 vs. a tbred K7. They are on the same process though, but all im saying is that they dont always shrink. Well, thats all i can think of at the moment. If i think of anything else ill be back.

EDIT: darnit! i didnt see nookieN and severian's posts. oh well. :-/
 
Severian said:
Am I the only person who saw "0.90nm" and thought "damn, who decided to start talking about sub-atomic particles"...maybe just me.

One day...


Originally posted by modenaf1
Kinda like having 3 big blocks of wood, taking up the same surface area vs. having 6 Smaller ones. so the size of the core will shrink somewhat,

That's true. What Gnufish is getting at though is let's say those blocks of wood are holding a tank of water. The water is going to seep through the 6 smaller ones faster than the 3 big ones. It's somewhat the same for transistors. Electrons are going to leak through the gates on smaller transistors faster than larger transistors.
 
will we get to a point where going smaller will harm us or reach impossibilities? I have heard 70nm is the theoratical limit, going any smaller will result in too many problems to make it worthwhile
 
Well AMD K9 due out 2005 will be 65nm.
One would assume Pentium "6" Nehalem will too.

I have a feeling we're in for a bad surprise as far as overclocking is concerned when they get to be that small though...
 
NookieN said:
90 nm (.09 micron) usually refers to the gate length.

I'm fairly certian that it refers to something else.

Moreover, Intel claims it has a transistor device technology that will be hard to beat. Though the lithography node is 90 nm, the actual gate length of transistor is 50 nm. By comparison, TSMC said its newest 90-nm process has a transistor gate length of 65 nm.
from http://www.eetimes.com/story/OEG20020312S0038


Intel's 0.18-micron process technology normally produces transistors with a 0.13-micron gate length
from: http://www.techweb.com/wire/story/TWB19991209S0014


http://www.eetimes.com/semi/news/OEG20001031S0036
 
Back