Raptor for OS drive: worth the cost?

C38368 · Jul 24, 2005

I'm in the process of building a new rig, just because, and I want to "get it right" from the start. So far, picking which hard drives I want is proving to be the most sticky part of it.

So far, I've considered "some random drive", a 120GB 7200.8 Barracuda, a single 74GB Raptor and a pair of 74GB Raptors in RAID 0.
I'm looking at the basic OS + minimal apps installation to this first drive (storage and such will be provided with something big, probably by Seagate).
I keep discounting the Raptors because WD still seems to be using IDE drives with bridge chips for their SATA solutions, something I'm not too keen on, especially given the cost of a Raptor. Additionally, the 36GB units haven't come across as all that hot (in terms of performance) compared to their bigger siblings. Is this still the case, or have the 36GB versions been upgraded?

So here I am, asking you storage gurus out there for guidance. Would a 36GB Raptor perform so well as to justify the horrible price-per-gig versus something like a 120GB 7200.8? I think I'd just as soon skip the 74GB version if I can: it's too expensive in absolute terms for just bearing an OS and maybe an app or two.

AEsnowboarding · Jul 24, 2005

Depends on who you talk to and what you believe. I believe my Raptor was worth it.

larva · Jul 24, 2005

It's a pretty subjective decision. The Raptor is faster, and if you get one, definitely get the 74GB version. The 36GB is a ball-bearing drive, and thusly has mucho greater spin noise than does the R74 or modern 7200rpm alternatives. Performance of the 36GB Raptor still exceeds that of 7200rpm drives, but not by as much as does that of the 74GB version.

The reason this is such a subjective decision is that drive performance alone can't transform all aspects of the system's performance. Many times, even when the drive is running, the overall performance achieved is so influenced by factors other than drive speed that some will decry the R74 as being a minimal improvement.

On the other hand, if you know what drive performance is and understand to what degree it can help, the R74 is the only game in town. And while the interface is indeed an ATA100 one with a SATA bridge, this factor doesn't amount to a whole lot in practice, and does not prevent the R74 remaining the speed champion.

The interface factors do have drastic affects on most benchmarks, though. The thing to remember is that benchmarking disk drives is horribly problematic and even with the best of testing methodologies, you invariably find the drives compare vastly differently by the standards of your own usage than the results would indicate. Interface matters, but nearly so much as physical speed--and ATA100 really isn't that limiting.

C38368 · Jul 24, 2005

Heh... great. I just found another thread basically asking the same question in retrospect a little further down, and it's making me think that I might as well go with the smaller drive and call it good. About as expensive in absolute terms, but with less wasted real estate (compared to a 100+ gig drive).

I s'pose that, if nothing else, I'll at least be able to say that I've got one...

EDIT~ Wrote the above before your post came up, larva. Thanks for the info on the 34's spindle bearings--that just cinched it up for me. I'm not expecting massive jumps in performance across the board or anything like that, but I wouldn't mind a quicker boot sequence, snappier menus or the like.
Thanks

snvpa · Jul 24, 2005

Personally, I would pick up a couple 80 gig WD sata drives. Toss them in Raid0 and you have better overall performance than a raptor, much more storage space and a lower cost.

larva · Jul 24, 2005

snvpa said:
Personally, I would pick up a couple 80 gig WD sata drives. Toss them in Raid0 and you have better overall performance than a raptor, much more storage space and a lower cost.

I personally own two WD 200GB SATA drives and a R74, and I can assure you, the Raptor is indeed faster than a RAID0 array of two SATA WDs.

eaglescouter · Jul 24, 2005

larva said:
I personally own two WD 200GB SATA drives and a R74, and I can assure you, the Raptor is indeed faster than a RAID0 array of two SATA WDs.

Larva, are those SATA or SATA II drives you are quoting performance on?

larva · Jul 24, 2005

They are WD2000JD's, the SATA1 drive. But if you take a look at this link, the SATAII version isn't really much different:

http://www.storagereview.com/php/be...&numDrives=1&devID_0=285&devID_1=260&devCnt=2

It is a touch better, but the R74 is a lot better.

For full details on the what the new WD brings (and what it doesn't), check out the full review:

http://www.storagereview.com/articles//200507/20050705WD2500KS_1.html

And for the impatient, here is a quote from the conclusion:

StorageReview said:
Unfortunately, despite the decent gains, the WD2500KS lacks the pizzazz to match offerings from Maxtor and Hitachi test after test. The drive's 250 GB capacity, while nothing to sneeze at for most uses, also trails the 300+ GB capacities of the competition. As a result, when continuing to seek the absolute best in 7200 RPM performance and space, power users should continue to look to the MaXLine III and Deskstar 7K400. Further, the lack of an NCQ implementation remains disappointing.

And while I am first to point to the unreliablity of hard drive benchmarking, StorageReview's methodology and correlation with reality is the best I know of, and pretty good for spotting the differences between something as similar as these two drives.

The people that sell hard drives would like you to believe that SATAII is a must-have, but the reality is its impact can barely be discerned in application performance at this juncture.

JCLW · Jul 24, 2005

A 7200rpm drive cannot match a 10,000 drive in terms of rotational latency. The high density platters used in the new high capacity drives gives them formidable sequential data transfer rates but they can't touch the raptors in random I/Os, which is what most of us are usually doing.

SATA II doesn't bring anything faster to the table, as no drive around today can push the 150mb/s offered by SATA-150. It's more about features like SATAe (external), hot swapping, and the ability to use hubs (kind of like 300mb/s USB). True, the new SATA II drives tend to be faster then the SATA I drives, but only because they are newer. Not because they are SATA II.

Anyways C38368, sounds like you've got a Raptor on the way. Let us know what you think when you get it.

Speciale · Jul 25, 2005

larva said:
It's a pretty subjective decision. The Raptor is faster, and if you get one, definitely get the 74GB version. The 36GB is a ball-bearing drive, and thusly has mucho greater spin noise than does the R74 or modern 7200rpm alternatives. Performance of the 36GB Raptor still exceeds that of 7200rpm drives, but not by as much as does that of the 74GB version.

The reason this is such a subjective decision is that drive performance alone can't transform all aspects of the system's performance. Many times, even when the drive is running, the overall performance achieved is so influenced by factors other than drive speed that some will decry the R74 as being a minimal improvement.

On the other hand, if you know what drive performance is and understand to what degree it can help, the R74 is the only game in town. And while the interface is indeed an ATA100 one with a SATA bridge, this factor doesn't amount to a whole lot in practice, and does not prevent the R74 remaining the speed champion.

The interface factors do have drastic affects on most benchmarks, though. The thing to remember is that benchmarking disk drives is horribly problematic and even with the best of testing methodologies, you invariably find the drives compare vastly differently by the standards of your own usage than the results would indicate. Interface matters, but nearly so much as physical speed--and ATA100 really isn't that limiting.

Ack, i jsut got a 36gig NIB for $100 on ebay...now you make me feel like i still wasted my money

larva · Jul 25, 2005

JCLW said:
A 7200rpm drive cannot match a 10,000 drive in terms of rotational latency. The high density platters used in the new high capacity drives gives them formidable sequential data transfer rates but they can't touch the raptors in random I/Os, which is what most of us are usually doing.

Rotational speed matters just as much or more to STR as does data density. The R74's STR varies from 54->72 MB/s, where the MaxlineIII's is only 37->66 MB/s. That is why the Raptor is still king, it has both demonstrably superior sequential as well as random performance. Its ATA100-based interface is an extremely minor impediment to application performance, and does little to diminish the impact of the significantly faster drive it is attached to. SATAII drives like the MaxlineIII and the T7k250 Hitachi are cost effective, but the Raptor is just plain faster.

larva · Jul 25, 2005

Speciale said:
Ack, i jsut got a 36gig NIB for $100 on ebay...now you make me feel like i still wasted my money

It's a darn fast $100 drive, I just have lost taste for ball-bearing units now that my machine is quiet enough that the spin noise of the drives is noticeable. If your machine's noise floor is not as low as mine, you may not notice the difference.

I was not prepared for just how quiet the spin noise of the Raptor 74 is when I got mine. It's as quiet as any of my FDB 7200rpm drives, including a GXP180 and 7k250 Hitachi in my second PC, and the two FDB 200GB SATA WD data drives in the main rig. Very impressive for a 10,000rpm drive. I have 7200rpm ball-bearing drives that are as loud as all five of those drives combined, and although I used to never notice I cannot stand to listen to them run now.

I have my 200GB WD's spin down after 3 minutes of activity. Since they are data drives, I don't mind if at times I have to wait for them to spool back up. My machine is so quiet that I can hear them spin up or down, and the resultant impact on the noise floor. And these are (very quiet) FDB drives, if they were ball-bearing units you would know if they were spun up or not the instant you entered the room. You have to hear them spin up or down to be sure with the FDB's superior noise characteristics.

Speciale · Jul 25, 2005

Well, i'm not worried so much aobut the noise. I just want a fast H/D for a change. I was always happy with my 120gig WD, but it died and i've been on this old 5400rpm 60gig drive that is a DOG!!! ANd my theory is. If it's broke...upgrade

Raptor for OS drive: worth the cost?

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