Decisions to be made

Hi all,
As you can see from my sig i am crunching with my i7 and 2x GTS 285's. Here is what i am trying to decide.

1. Crunching SETI under full load i am sitting at 85C on my CPU and GPU, my case isn't the best for cooling but these Temps are unacceptable for me? What do you think i should do to better cool? *I have OC'ed my i7 only to 3.5GHZ because of Temps** My Cooler is the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme*

2. Right now SETI is running with Hyperthreading on, Does this give any performance gain or is it actually hindering my production? With the 8 thread i can run 8 processes at once +2GPU, but i would rather have 4 running faster +2GPU then 8? Which way is going to work best?

Thanks for all your help,
Mils

mils128 said:

Hi all,
As you can see from my sig i am crunching with my i7 and 2x GTS 285's. Here is what i am trying to decide.

1. Crunching SETI under full load i am sitting at 85C on my CPU and GPU, my case isn't the best for cooling but these Temps are unacceptable for me? What do you think i should do to better cool? *I have OC'ed my i7 only to 3.5GHZ because of Temps** My Cooler is the Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme*

Click to expand...

I have no idea on #2, So i'll let someone else answer that.

first, Are you using a good quality thermal paste on your CPU? something like AS5, or IC Diamond thermal paste? Have you tried re-seating your heatsink on your processor? Do you have any other fans that are stronger that will push more air through the heatsink?

Also, Have you thought about taking the heatsink off your GPU's, and applying AS5, or another good quality thermal paste? That would probably help the GPU temps.

Also, while 85c for a CPU is in my opinion way too hot, I don't believe 85c is UNGODLY hot for a GPU. It's definitely hotter than it SHOULD be, But it's not exactly at critical temps either.

Also, using the Nvidia control panel's performance tab, or using something like EVGA's percision program ( used for overclocking GPU's ), or RivaTuner, you can raise the GPU's fan speed to whatever you want. Personally, I keep my GPU's fans at 100% 24/7. For me, I don't really notice the extra noise ( it's there, but it doesn't bother me at all. ).

But I think you should try re-seating your heatsink, and re-applying the thermal paste, and make sure you are using good thermal paste too. If the temps are still that high, I'd suggest lowering your Overclock until you get a hold of a better heatsink for your i7.

And for the GPU's, get rid of the white thermal crap they use, and put something good like AS5 on it, and raise the speeds of the fans. If that doesn't work, Look at prices on after market coolers for GPU's.

That's the only advice i can really think of giving when it comes to high temperatures.

Hey Zex,
Thank for your Reply
I have Reseated my HS on my i7 twice now, The first mount had me at 80C full load with No OC

AS for the GPU's I think you have a good idea, I have not used AS5 on my GPU's yet, I usually only use AS5 on my CPU. I will go ahead and remount my GPU HS. I am thinking of changing this case out, it is a very very nice case in terms of different functionality but, the lack of airflow in this case is ridiculous. I am hoping that maybe changing the case out will help if not i am looking at going water. I know minimal gains for the price but water seems viable atm, because these temps are terrible, my old coolermaster case has a lot better airflow.

#2 probally needs to be answered by someone who has an i7

Thanks again for your input Zexmarquies

What HS are you using?

Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme

That's got to be an example of poor case flow. AFAIK the TRUE is still the best out there (though I've heard some of the core contact coolers are very good). What fan are you using on it and does your rear fan match or even slightly exceed the TRUE's fan?

I'm not familiar with the GTX 265's - do they dump heat out the back slots ...?

The Rear fan matches the Trues default fan, I know the air flow in this case is bad because it makes no noise, and my fans are on high. I am thinking of watercooling so that i can cool the CPU with outside case air and only worry about cooling the GPU and HD's with the air inside the case.

is this a lapped/washer modded true?
with i7's and HT enabled, the heat just gets insane. you can turn off HT for much more reasonable temps, but will suffer a bit of a RAC drop.
HT is just a massive heat cannon on these i7's

i honestly dont think the drop will be that huge since you have two 285 gtx's

I just looked up that case on the Egg, and it looks insane. I can't really tell from the pictures, but where is it drawing it's fresh air from. Is there an intake fan? I don't know first hand, but I'm "assuming" those I7's need a lot of fresh air being forced over them. You may need some precisely directed airflow, in-over the HSF-out. Sucking air from vents is probably not enough to keep that I7 in check, and then you throw in the 285's and you've got a mini oven

Hey all,

No the True is not lapped. I used to lap all my HS but lately i haven't gotten around to it. as the the intake, their are 2 140mm Fans in this thing that intake air from the bottom of the case, the air then goes up to the cpu and VID cards, the air respectly get sucked into both and then pulled out by the rear exhaust fan. For those of you who don't knw this case has the mobo flipped 90 degrees, this allows my IO Ports to be above the case and provides better heat dissipation.

I am still considering WC, if i cool my CPU with out of case air then my CPU will be cooler and then all the fans can work on the two VId cards that sit at 80c full load, which is normal for vid cards.

I have parts chosen, i just need to click the checkout button, i am waiting to see if their is anything else i can do before i spend $400 on WC.

Change the fans on the TRUE and rear (top for yours) case. The TRUE is a great cooler, IDK why they equip it with such wimpy fans.

A pair of Panaflo FBA12G12L1BX, Panaflo FBA12G12M1BX, or S-Flex 'G' will make a huge difference over the stock 40 CFM fan. I like the S-Flex myself - fluid-dynamic bearings to take years of abuse (and still run relatively quiet!) and no worries about fitting a 120x38mm fan into a 120x25mm space ...

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/paaxfa1.html
http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/scsf75cfms12.html

mils128, I don't yet have an i7 machine, but I've heard that they are some really hot running beasts. And my advice for you is to lap that TRUE man. Every TR heatsink I've bought in the last 3-4 years came with a base finish that went from barely acceptable to absolutely horrible as far as flatness goes. And that includes a $100 copper TRUE too.

Watercooling would probably be your best bet, but with the heat dump of that i7 plus 2 GTX285 gpu's you are looking at a sizable investment to go watercooling. You are going to need a minimum of 2 triple fan rads such as The Swiftech MCR320 series, IMO. If you go with the MCW60 R2 waterblocks for the gpu's and either a Fuzion v2 or Swiftech GTZ waterblock for the cpu you should be able to get by with one loop if you use a quality pump such as a MCP355 with an XSPC top or the MCP655 vario. And all this plumbing is going to take up a lot of room, especially the 2 rads. Now Swiftech did just come out with a stackable rad to go with a regular MCR320, but I don't know how much efficiency you lose with the stackable setup.

Just to give you a basic idea of the costs to watercool your machine, here are some rough estimates:

pump - $80
cpu block - $75-80 with i7 adapter
2 x gpu blocks (all-in-one type) - $250-300 or
2 x gpu blocks (MCW60 R2 or Fuzion gfx, plus all ramsinks needed) - waterblocks are $80 plus at least $80 for ramsinks
tubing - $30
Reservoir (or Res top for MCP355) - $25-40
radiators - $120-280 (depends on the rads you pick out)
misc - $40 (metal barbs included in the misc figure)

Hey mudddoctor, I actually went ahead a priced it out, it came out to total as $418, that is leaving the GPU's air cooled and just WC'ing the CPU. THis is jusst too high of a price for me, I went ahead and followed QuietIce's advice and ordered 4 S-Flex Fans, A New Fan Controller that shows me RPM Speeds, another FAN mount for my TRUE, and a infrared thermometer for testing. I also feel like lapping this TRUE would help as it felt pretty concave when i got it, I am going home this weekend from college so i will grab my lapping supplies and bring them back with me.

Thanks for everyone's help so far on my heat issues, i just have 2 more questions

1. I have read that the fans in my case are volt modded to run at a lower speed to produce less noise, the fans are 140mm fans, is their anyway to reverse the volt mod and just use my fan controller to set my desired setting?


2. Anyone have any idea about the Hyper threading question? IF all it does is basically add more heat into the system i don't know if i want to run it? The Pros and cons that i have figured out i have listed below:

Pros
-Can run 8 threads at a time, which means running 8 SETI WU's at a time

Cons
- Extra heat
- The 8 WU's of SETI run slower then 4 WU"S of SETI would (Is this Negligible, how much slower)
- A lot of applications don't use anywhere near 8 threads/ 4 Cores+4 Threads

This is what i have so far, again thank you everyone for your help,

Crunch on,
Mils

If you want to do a cpu-only loop, your price of cooling goes way down. You can get by with the following:

MCP355 with XSPC reservoir top - $110
MCR320-QP rad with 3 Yate Loon Medium fans - $65
GTZ waterblock with i7 hold down plate - $70
10 feet of Primoflex tubing - $12
Hose clamps and misc - $15

So, while it's not cheap by any means, it doesn't come close to what you priced out at either. That's well less than $300 and if you shop around on various forum Classified/Trading Post areas you can save quite a bit more too. I picked up both my Fuzion V1 blocks that way and saved quite a bit of money. I also picked up my Iwaki pump there too, which saved me well over $100 itself.

But definitely give the TRUE a good lap job. It should do for a moderate overclock at least and can hold you over until you decide to go under water with that i7 if you are so inclined later on. And would give you time to shop around to get your watercooling gear at better prices off forums or when on sale.

muddocktor said:

mils128, I don't yet have an i7 machine, but I've heard that they are some really hot running beasts. And my advice for you is to lap that TRUE man. Every TR heatsink I've bought in the last 3-4 years came with a base finish that went from barely acceptable to absolutely horrible as far as flatness goes. And that includes a $100 copper TRUE too.

Click to expand...

I had heard that from others but just couldn't believe it - such a shame for a nice heat sink. The system that's ruining the TRUE now is going to my daughter soon but I'm not giving up the cooler! Guess I'll have to lap it before I stick it on the next CPU ...

I was pricing everything from one location Sidewinder Computers (which probably isn't the cheapest place). I priced

MCP355 w Derelin Top $65
Thermochill 120.3 $125
Swiftech Micro Res $25
10ft Tygon Tubing $30
3x Sythe Fans $30
Sythe Fan Controller $30
Swiftech Radbox $30
Apogee GTZ w/ i7 Mounting $75
Clamps, etc. $15

I just did that from memory so excuse any totally off digits, what i figured was that atm, i just didn't have the money to build myself a good WC kit, so i picked up Fans and all. I also spoke to a good friend of mine who is also a SETI nut, and he showed to me that while running SETI WC would not have that great effect since i would be running full load 24/7. I think i can make this thing into a quality air cooling machine, its setup for it with the 90 degree MB twist, it allows the hot air to rise out, i think i just need more powerful fans to take care of everything, and AS5 on the VGA HS's

I think you're right about the fans. That being said, Sidewinder's & Petra's are where I shop - good prices, good service - so you won't find much better in the way of "deals" unless you go the our classifieds.


For future reference there are a couple of things about your WC build.
1. The ThermoChill rad is (IMO) the best but the MCR-320 is very good as well and a LOT cheaper.

2. If you're going to buy a fan controller anyway I'd go with cheaper, high-output Yate Loon fans and a Sunbeam (rheostat) controller. Fan RPM isn't that critical to know because the output changes depending on the fan. The Yates are loud at full speed but when you turn them down to a quieter setting they are very effective at cooling. By putting them on a controller gamers can crank them up to high when needed and turn them back down for "everyday" use. For us SETI crunchers running 100% 24/7, the S-Flex G's are just as good and, adding in the controller cost, about the same price for a set of three. I guess it's a personal choice on that one as a lot of guys here swear by Yates on a controller, and you do save ~$10 if you run four of them ...

If you go with the XSPC Res top for the MCP355 you don't need the Micro Res. BTW, the top that the MCP355 comes with has non-removable 3/8 barbs and an aftermarket top is needed if you want to plumb in 1/2" tubing. Plus you get better performance with the aftermarket tops too. And instead of the Radbox Rev 2, buy the Radbox Rev 1 from Petra's instead. I have both and the Rev 2 is a plasic POS that easily cracks. The Rev 1 model is made of steel and much sturdier and also much cheaper. For fans, the medium Yates are a good choice as they move sufficient air to cool the rad well, but aren't very noisy. That does away with the need for a controller, cutting costs. And like QI said, the PA120.3 is a great rad, but very pricey. I have one myself. But for the price you pay for it, you could buy 2 MCR320-QP rads and the performance idfference isn't that much less than a PA120.3 either (I also have an MCR320-QP Res model on another cruncher).

EDIT: BTW, the MCP355 w/delrin top is $90 at Sidewinder, not $60. So the XSPC res top w/MCP355 isn't that much more than it.

For my cooling needs, the 3 places I shop the most are Petra's, Jab-tech and Sidewinder. Although lately it seems like Gary Stoufer (Sidewinder) has been consistently higher priced than the other 2 stores.