4200mhz memory downclocked as tight as lower clocked memory?

[gold333]

I used to be heavy into overclocking since 2008 but I've been out of the loop. What are the things to look out for nowadays? Any modern advice for an old tinkerer?

So I'm building a new PC (first time since 2008).

The '08 Q9650 has served me well until today, but it is finally time to retire the leviathan. My wallgaming 1:1 3D projector requirements are just too much for it.


This is the system that I think is today's equivalent of what I got in 2008 (and used since!)

Maximus X Apex
Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML120R RGB (hope it is enough, my case doesn't have space for the 2 fan 240R version)
Intel 8700k
2x8gb GSkill TridentZ 4266mhz
WD Black M.2 NVME 1TB
GTX670 (will be upgraded in a few months to 1080)
Coolermaster SilentPro 600w (from 2008, will be upgraded in a few months, hope 600w will fire this board up on stock




Memory Question........


Now a friend is giving me 2x8gb GSkill TridentZ 4266mhz dimms.

I know everyone says that 4266mhz is overkill on RAM and the loose timings that that brings are much less desirable than a lower clock and tighter timings.

My question is, can you downclock the TridentZ 4266mhz to say 3600mhz and tighten the timings and be as well off (in terms of performance) as if you had bought 3600mhz to start with?


Current system: (I know)
Asus Striker II
Intel Q9650 @ 4.2mhz
GTX 670 CUII

 

[trents]

You won't be able to overclock that 8700k on the listed cooler. If you want to overclock it then you need to get a new case as well; one that will take at least a 240mm liquid cooling radiator or a 360mm rad. Even if you go with high end air you would need a case with enough side to side width to accommodate a tall tower cooler. All the good ones are at least 160mm tall.


And another thing. Don't waste your money on the 4266 mhz RAM. It's likely that you will not be able to run it at that high of speed anyway. The processor's IMC will be put under more strain at that frequency than it might be able to handle. Memory controllers are no longer located on the motherboard, they are integrated into the CPU. Not only that but it won't help with performance. High speed RAM just does not make much difference with Intel processors. Go with 3200 mhz RAM.

600 watt quality PSU is more than enough if you are only running one video card.

 

[EarthDog]

No reason for you to get the apex unless you are planning on sub ambient overclocking. Save yourself $100+ and get a hero or asrock taichi.

I also agree you will want at least a 2x120mm AIO for pushing the 8700k.

I agree with not getting the high speed ram, but for different reasons. Cost vs performance isnt remotely worth it - few increases over the 'sweetspot' around 3200mhz. The 8700k IMC will handle it but maybe with a few tweaks - that speed may not be plug and play.

The psu will be fine. In fact, with the 8700k overclocked and the 1080, youll be using LESS power than you are now.

 

[trents]

I would agree. The motherboard you listed is overkill. No need to spend that much to get a good quality motherboard that will be a good overclocker. Just get any Z370 board with a good heatsink on the VRM.


https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157790&cm_re=z370-_-13-157-790-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813144106&cm_re=z370-_-13-144-106-_-Product

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813145035&cm_re=z370-_-13-145-035-_-Product

 

[EarthDog]

I wouldn't worry so much about a good VRM heatsink (though bigger is usually better) . I've run 5Ghz all day long on a Mini-ITX board with nearly non-existant heatsinks. It isn't X299, but as always the cooler the better.

@ gold - I merged the other thread asking about memory since its all really about this build and thread, etc. To answer that question specifically, you can do that, sure, however, why would you pay a premium for fast RAM to run it slower? Get the slower RAM speed and save money.

 

[Johan45]

Maybe I missed something but

Now a friend is giving me 2x8gb GSkill TridentZ 4266mhz DIMMs.

I think that takes the cost out of the equation. That's a nice set of Samsung B-die, it's about as easy to work with as DDR4 comes these days. Shouldn't be too difficult to run at 36-3800 with decent timings. They run well at XMP too but the problem there is the motherboard. Many of them don't handle high-speed ram very well but are good up to 3800 ish so manual tuning will be necessary. One nifty feature on MSI boards is the "Memory Try It" in BIOS. I have tested it on many review boards and it works very well and will take all the guess work out of DRAM set-up

 

[EarthDog]

That info was in a different thread before these were merged.

It was simply a list with that memory listed in it. Then the memory thread was created (or maybe it was the other way around.. ).

 

[wingman99]

Since you have the memory I would clock them the best you can.

Here is some Windows 10 memory benchmarks I did with coffee lake at 5.0GHz.

"winsat mem" comand promt adminstator.

3200 14-14-14-34 33250.36 MB/s
3600 15-15-15-35 36321.35 MB/s
3866 16-16-16-36 36932.68 MB/s

 

[Alaric]

Oops. Early morning for me. Just intended to throw data up for comparison. Back to my coffee....

 

[EarthDog]

I wouldn't use those as The Gospel, gents. I have seen this posted a lot as if it is a barometer to go by, but it only tells one piece of the whole story.

Also, this thread isn't about our scores running that bench (though, Wingman, since you seem to like to share this in multiple places, maybe consider starting a thread specifically for those results ) but his 4200 MHz memory. Let's keep on track, please.

 

[gold333]

LAST QUESTION, hope a real case expert can answer it:


Ok peeps thank you so much for the feedback.

As advised by you I've decided to get a bigger cooler, a new case (which I'm not sure will fit the board, see below) and different RAM (gave back my friends sticks).

This is what I've decided on:


8700K

Asus Maximus X Apex (just love the look of it and I am a tinkerer afterall)

G.Skill Trident Z RGB F4-3200C14D-16GTZR 2x8GB ( 14-14-14-34 ) timings (these 3200mhz CL14 model of this brand were sold out everywhere, but thankfully I found a set for EUR255) I'm going with what everyone is saying, that for gaming 3200mhz&tight timings are the sweetspot. Hopefully she'll run 1T.

Cooler Master MasterLiquid ML240R RGB

WD Black M.2 1TB NMVe SSD (allegedly this is the fastest/best 1TB SSD money can buy at the moment)

WD Black 1TB old sata drive

Case: NZXT S340 White Elite (until the Lian Li "Der Bauer" pc case comes out next month) S340 is listed as ATX, I hope the X Apex (EATX 30.5 cm x 27.2 cm) will somehow fit for at least a few months.


Sigh, I'll miss my old '08 Sunbeam UV reactive full acrylic case Q9650. It was a blessing keeping dust in check and to blow clean with a 6 bar compressor (I don't even think you can buy these cases anymore). I can't use it now because it only has five 100mm fan openings. People gave me so much stick back in '08 saying a full acrylic case would never get rid of heat, etc. Well she ran the 3ghz Q9650 on 4.2ghz for 10 years straight on frickin air cooling using a crappy Asus Silent Knight II on an Asus Striker II NSE.



Excuse the fact that it only has 1 working black light left and cable management hasn't been there in years.

 

[wingman99]

I would of clocked the memory he gave you to 3600 15-15-15-35 or purchase it.

Here is Cas memory speed timing calculator for time in ns. LINK: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...mV_44QazuvsSjjTu-H4KyVfpg/edit#gid=2008389493

 

[gold333]

Thanks for that info. It's a useful graph!

I kind of feel bad for taking them from him though, I think he should just sell them.

I'm gonna try to make do with the 3200 set. Maybe I can OC them to 3600 and run 15 timings.

I think I'll have more luck running GSKILL stock 3200-14's at 3600-15, than trying to get GSKILL stock 3600-16's down to 3600-15. Or is that thinking totally flawed?

I like my stuff to run high end, but I'm not hardcore (sub ambient, liquid nitrogen, etc. kind of guy.) As long as I'm in the top 90% of consumer builds I'm happy enough.

 

[wingman99]

They sell G.SKILL 3600 15-15-15-35 http://www.gskill.com/en/finder?cat...eries=2482&prop_2=16GB+(8GBx2)&prop_3=3600MHz hard to find. However, going with 3200 CL 14 is the best shot for 3600 CL 15 if you can't get them stock.

 

[gold333]

Yeah but Gskill don't make them in the funky RGB version and I am 6 and a half years old after all.

I even installed 300ft of led lighting in my house over five ethernet networks controlled by DMX512 like they do in nightclubs

But going back to the final question:

NZXT S340 is listed as ATX, do we think the Asus X Apex (EATX 30.5 cm x 27.2 cm) will somehow fit for at least a few months?

 

[Johan45]

The board isn't any longer top to bottom but about an inch + wider. So if you have room between your board and the HDD cage area then you should be fine