A few questions before greatly overclocking my Q9650

[dominatus]

So I have this nifty Q9650 CPU, and I'd like to overclock it. First, the specs on the rig! This would be my first real rig to overclock in any serious aspect (enabling SLI ready ram doesn't really seem to count )

Mobo: eVGA nForce 680i mobo (122 CK NF 68 A1)
Cpu: Q9650 cooled with CNPS9700 (Zalman HSF)
RAM: 8GB (4x 2GB sticks) of Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800 "rated" 4-4-4-12 @ 800 freq by the manufacture specs (BL25664AA80A)
Video Card:eVGA GeForce GTX 280 SSC Edition (01G P3 1284 AR)
PSU: Decathlon Series DA750 PSU 750W by SilverStone
Hard Drive: Barracuda 7200 x2 in RAID 0
OS: Windows Vista 64bit
Case: Antec 900

Alrighty...
I've read... ALOT... I've "played" with raising my FSB somewhat but there is much to learn and I may have missed a few things here or there. I have a few questions that I think would do well to just be asked (searching has been fruitless thus far)

First off, my CPU is a Yorkfield and I believe I've read that 1.25v is set for this cpu; so in this situation what effect, if any, does changing that setting in the bios have? Does it not actually take effect? Does the extra voltage just not get used and only create heat, wear, and tear? Can I lower the setting, assuming the rig will stay stable with a lower cpu voltage, to achieve a more efficient machine? Does this apply to both the CPU core and FSB voltage?

Second, it would seem from searching the forums there is a lot of potential in this CPU. What can I expect without really pushing the setup to the edge or without going water cooled or another "air" alternative (I would really like to do that though... someday...)

Thirdly the question that is really bugging me, even after dissecting the cpu / ram forums: delving a bit into the ram but still cpu related, is there some magic FSB / ram ratio? 1066 OC'd ram frequency is mentioned a lot in various posts. Now I believe I have a firm grasp on the somewhat complicated relationship the FSB has with the rest of the setup, especially RAM. So, given a bios (or at least mine) gives only so many ratio options, only certain FSB / Core Multiplier settings are going to give me 1066 / 800 ram freq. I understand in an "ideal" world 1:1 would be best, providing no "lag" between the ram and the FSB, but ram just doesn't go that fast, so is there a more stable ratio(s) that I should be working with? Always shoot for a FSB / Multiplier / Ratio combo that gives 1066 or 800 RAM freq? I can just "unlink" the two in my bios but that seems to give strange ratios and seems pretty unstable when I try to boot with certain numbers (even low ones, lower than I have right now) Or can I just raise one (RAM freq or FSB) to its limit, reset, raise the other to test its limits, and to hell with any certain ratio? I have other RAM questions, but I'll move onto that forum in a bit.

Finally, anything anybody knows from experience with dealing with any my components or combination of them that might be helpful... or ominous?

Thank you all for the wonderful resources, and thank for any input you may have. I am off to the RAM forums and then to get a bit more shut eye while Prime95 takes the rig for a spin...

 

[sandyduff]

Ok... to get to 4GHz that chip will probably need around 1.3 - 1.35v to be stable, i managed to get mine up to 3.9GHz stable while at stock voltage. Make sure in the bios that your vcore is set to 1.25 and NOT auto... if its auto your mobo will overvolt the chip... dont want that...

If you are having issues with selected ratios i would just leave it at 1:1... but you may find that your 800MHz RAM could be holding you back when you reach higher FSB speeds (my ram does not like going above 912MHz). If it does hold you back i would just run it unlinked and see how you get on...

Now i really dont want to put a downer on this... but that 680i could be your major problem... its not the best clocker in the world, iv not used a Q9650 in one but i did use a QX6700 which would not go any higher than 3.2GHz stable... the board eventually died on me and whn i put my QX6700 in my Quad-GT i got it up to 3.6GHz stable... didnt go higher coz the chip got too dam hot...

 

[dominatus]

Thank you for the reply! Ok, so... I have core voltage and my FSB voltage, the vcore (my core voltage?) is locked at 1.25 and I need to make sure that my bios has it at that and not auto, correct? and my FSB is the one that I may meed to raise to get it stable? Sorry, I thought I understood but I just got a bit confused here, just wanted to make sure I had a proper understanding. Thank you again for the info!

 

[sandyduff]

Not a problem... just start upping your FSB say 15-20MHz at a time, booting up... checking load temps and so on... then continue... if it becomes unstable, up the vcore slightly... since you are running 4 sticks of RAM you will probably have to increase the northbridge voltage as well (might be called MCH voltage) set it around 1.4v... remember to keep an eye on temps

You shouldnt have to increase FSB voltage much (i never) only really the vcore, also make sure your RAM is set to 2.1v or 2.2v... no more than that tho

 

[dominatus]

The rig is at 3.6 GHz (x9 Multiplier 400 FSB) and the RAM is at 1066 (3/2 ratio) with 5-4-4-12-31 (that last number is Bank Cycle Time? Kinda high? I left it on auto) and has run Prime 95 small FFT test (min 8 max 64) for 7 hours straight with no errors so far. So far so good?
Volts are:
Vcore 1.3v
FSB 1.3V
RAM 2.05v
NB 1.5v(auto)

 

[sandyduff]

I would set the NB to 1.5v and not on auto....

Also i wouldnt worry about that RAM timing... the first 4 are the important ones and they are fine... i suggest setting the RAM ratio to 1:1 so that the RAM is not the limiting factor... and just keep upping your FSB...

Doing great so far...

 

[EarthDog]

Your issue will likely be FSB on that board. 680i's are not great clockers. You will be lucky to hit 450Mhz with a 45nm quad on that board. Sandy though is pointing you in the right direction!

 

[sandyduff]

Yeh Earthdog is right... a high FSB is def a limiting factor with Quads, altho i do know given the right mobo the Q9650 can hit 500MHz+ FSB... under water of course... 4GHz should be do-able with your setup...

 

[EarthDog]

Im just worried about 450FSB with that board personally. Should be doable but not as easy as say a P5Q-Dx or EP45 UD3P. I can bench well over 4.5Ghz on mine, under water. Its too bad she is a voltage hog (1.5v+). Want to trade + a bit of cash??

 

[sandyduff]

What is there to worry about? If the board cant do it then it cant... just downclock till its stable... if it can do 450MHz then a big yay!! Only one way to find out!!

My board is an x38 and it can take a Q9650 to over 500MHz FSB... iv never done it but Brolloks has...

 

[EarthDog]

Nothing to "worry" about, just if the ability is there. X38 was made with 45nm in mind. 680i didnt even know it was coming and was only compatible with a bios flash.

 

[sandyduff]

Yup very true... Just need to wait and see what it can do!! To be honest i didnt think the OP would get as far as 3.6GHz....

 

[dominatus]

welll, I guess I'll see how far she will go stable, let y'all know where I get it to.

 

[dominatus]

Ok, I've got something wrong. If I understand correctly the FSB # I am show is actual divided by 4 for calculation purposes because the CPU is QDR or "quad pumps" it). 1333 gives me 333 MHz. That being said, if I leave the FSB on its default settings (1333), and put my ratio to 1:1, it tries to run my ram at 1333 MHz, same as my FSB after its been "quad pumped". I THOUGHT the formula was (2 x FSB) / ratio. So shouldn't it be trying to run my ram at 666 if I run it 1:1 at 1333 MHz FSB?

Anyways, I ask because my ram WILL not boot with a MHz setting over 1080 give or take a few MHz, 1090 and for sure 1100 MHz will not boot. With that being said, there is no way for me to boot with a 1:1 ratio. What information am I missing?

 

[dominatus]

OK, the bios has a "Sync Mode" option in with my ratios and it does what I THOUGHT a 1:1 ratio would do. What is labeled 1:1 ratio tries to run my ram at the Quad Data Rate of my FSB. I don't know if it just a difference of terms when dealing with my bios or if I am misunderstanding still or what, but "Sync Mode" seems to actually sync my FSB and DRAM MHz to a 1:1 ratio, as I understand how it should work at least.

 

[jason4207]

What is there to worry about? If the board cant do it then it cant... just downclock till its stable... if it can do 450MHz then a big yay!! Only one way to find out!!

My board is an x38 and it can take a Q9650 to over 500MHz FSB... iv never done it but Brolloks has...

That was a particular Abit X38 board w/ a BIOS that didn't even properly support that chip. Afaik most X38's struggle to get the FSB much above 460 w/ 45nm quads 24/7-stable...same w/ X48's, and P35's. P45's can go a little higher.

Ok, I've got something wrong. If I understand correctly the FSB # I am show is actual divided by 4 for calculation purposes because the CPU is QDR or "quad pumps" it). 1333 gives me 333 MHz. That being said, if I leave the FSB on its default settings (1333), and put my ratio to 1:1, it tries to run my ram at 1333 MHz, same as my FSB after its been "quad pumped". I THOUGHT the formula was (2 x FSB) / ratio. So shouldn't it be trying to run my ram at 666 if I run it 1:1 at 1333 MHz FSB?

Anyways, I ask because my ram WILL not boot with a MHz setting over 1080 give or take a few MHz, 1090 and for sure 1100 MHz will not boot. With that being said, there is no way for me to boot with a 1:1 ratio. What information am I missing?

OK, the bios has a "Sync Mode" option in with my ratios and it does what I THOUGHT a 1:1 ratio would do. What is labeled 1:1 ratio tries to run my ram at the Quad Data Rate of my FSB. I don't know if it just a difference of terms when dealing with my bios or if I am misunderstanding still or what, but "Sync Mode" seems to actually sync my FSB and DRAM MHz to a 1:1 ratio, as I understand how it should work at least.

You've got it pretty much figured out. Base FSB frequency is 333MHz which gives you 1333Mhz effective speed due to their being 4 pathways (quad-pumped). In 1:1 RAM would be running at the same base frequency which in this case is 333MHz. RAM is rated for it's effective speed, though, since it is Double-Data-Rate (DDR), and RAM running at 333MHz is rated at DDR2-667. You were running 2:1 when your RAM came up at DDR2-1333 (667MHz).

1:1 is used for testing purposes on Intel platforms b/c that is the lowest setting for the RAM and will help to alleviate any RAM related issues while trying to OC the FSB. nVidia boards are different, though. 1:1 doesn't always work right. You have to be careful not to select too funky of a RAM:FSB ratio, though, or you might hit a FSB-hole. I've never used an nVidia board, but from reading I know that you have to set it up just right, and you really can't use Intel based boards as an example when working on your OC.

 

[dominatus]

Well, she ran at 3.825 GHz (425 FSB) with a ratio of 1:1 (meaning ram was at 850 MHz) with timings 5-4-4-11-15 on prime95 small FFT test for 15 hours with no errors
Voltages are:
Vcore 1.3v
FSB 1.3V
RAM 2v
NB 1.5v

All cores stayed between 54* to 59*

I couldn't get her to boot @ 3.85 GHz. I have not tried raising voltages to much though to see if it will boot at a higher FSB. I figure I could lower voltages at this point and see if she will boot and stay stable for more efficiency or I could change the ratio and raise the RAM frequency (that would be an improvement right?)

OR I could play with voltages and see if the FSB will go higher.

I haven't decided yet what I want to do, I have already far exceeded what I ever thought I'd do.

 

[sandyduff]

I would increase vcore to 1.35 and try upping the the FSB.... You are very close to 4GHz.... i never really play around with RAM timings and the like so that would be better in the memory thread if you do have questions about it...

Keep it up!!

 

[EarthDog]

I would second that Vcore statement. I am concerned about your memory timings (personally I would keep that business in this thread so you dont have two threads going on at the same time confusing us and you). We only care about 4 timings, CAS-TRCD-TRP-TRAS. If you have 11 as TRAS thats likely too low. 12/15/18 (w/e is stock for those sticks). Also, Small FFT does NOT test ram out as noted already above.

 

[dominatus]

I was going to run an memtest86+ to see how the ram was doing, but I don't have any blank CD's >< I'll run a Blend in the mean time. As for my timings, I had them at 5-4-4-12 but then I read this http://www.tweakers.fr/timings.html and thought I'd see if it'd boot following those formulas, and it did. I'll see what a Blend test does to it in any case.

Let y'all know how the 3.5v and 4.0GHz attempt goes too! Wish me some luck ;-)

PS I just saw I could boot memtest86+ from my usb drive (I think?), so I'll do that instead of a blend. memtest86+ is a much more hardcore RAM test is it not?