AM4 4 phase boards temps issue

[Johan45]

The MOSFET does not deliver a signal, it delivers only DC voltage in a pulse form to the inductor that changes it to continuous DC with the capacitors. The operating range of the MOSFET Temperature and Frequency is set by the motherboard companies and is FOOLPROOF. When you see 1.425v with a Digital voltmeter that is what the VRM is producing for DC voltage even when running the MOSFET at the highest factory calibrated temperature before throttling and shutdown.

Dolk is correct if the factory parameters were off we would see Mosfets buning up and massive complaints in the forums and review sites demanding the manufacture to take care of the problem. We don't design motherboard VRMs here, so folks don't have to worry about running a 4-2 phase with 1800X because manufactures set the calibration so that you will make it through the warranty period.

Most people don't even join forums when building a PC manufactures have to make the motherboards foolproof. I will give one very small manufacture example So if there is even a slight problem like EVGA had folks would find the problem in motherboards by the masses.

The best selling motherboard at Newegg is 4+2 phase GIGABYTE GA-AB350-GAMING 3.

Well as a quick recap at the FX launch I recall many boards (MSI) going down in flames and twice as many throttling the speed. The OEMs don't always get it right. Just because the board is popular doesn't mean it's a great board it just fits the price range usually.
Like it or not electricity is a signal and it has a range that needs to be met or things fall apart

 

[wingman99]

Well as a quick recap at the FX launch I recall many boards (MSI) going down in flames and twice as many throttling the speed. The OEMs don't always get it right. Just because the board is popular doesn't mean it's a great board it just fits the price range usually.
Like it or not electricity is a signal and it has a range that needs to be met or things fall apart

I already covered faulty motherboard designs in my post. I gave the best selling motherboard at Newegg is 4+2 phase GIGABYTE GA-AB350-GAMING 3 as a example of a 4+2 phase without VRM trouble.

DC (Direct Current) VRM is not a signal. Signal definition an electrical impulse or radio wave transmitted or received.

A processor works off of Direct Current.

 

[Johan45]

I already covered faulty motherboard designs in my post. I gave the best selling motherboard at Newegg is 4+2 phase GIGABYTE GA-AB350-GAMING 3 as a example of a 4+2 phase without VRM trouble.

DC (Direct Current) VRM is not a signal. Signal definition an electrical impulse or radio wave transmitted or received.

A processor works off of Direct Current.

It's still a signal just doesn't reverse itself

 

[wingman99]

I already covered faulty motherboard designs in my post. I gave the best selling motherboard at Newegg is 4+2 phase GIGABYTE GA-AB350-GAMING 3 as a example of a 4+2 phase without VRM trouble.

DC (Direct Current) VRM is not a signal. Signal definition an electrical impulse or radio wave transmitted or received.

A processor works off of Direct Current.

It's still a signal just doesn't reverse itself

What your talking about does not make any sense.

 

[Johan45]

electrical impulse with a 0 hertz frequency. Doesn't have to be a wave to be a signal

 

[Dolk]

What?

Wingman, its clear (again) that you do not know much if anything about electronics and hardware design. I will no longer be replying to these statements you make, and I will advise others to do the same when it comes to matters of electronics, enginnering, and hardware design. The statements you are making are based on, what I can tell, strewn together logic from basic understandings.

If you would like to learn ask the professionals (it doesn't have to be me). Ignorance is ok to have, it just means you didn't spend the time like someone else did to master the subject material.


As for OPs original question. I believe many of us have answered it. 4+2 phases is more than enough, and a finger test as a temperature gauge is not a good idea.

 

[wingman99]

I had electronics in College and I worked in the electronics industry, what is wrong with what said in this quote besides the pulse from the MOSFET could be considered a signal? I go by what Einstein said “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.

The MOSFET does not deliver a signal, it delivers only DC voltage in a pulse form to the inductor that changes it to continuous DC with the capacitors. The operating range of the MOSFET Temperature and Frequency is set by the motherboard companies and is FOOLPROOF. When you see 1.425v with a Digital voltmeter that is what the VRM is producing for DC voltage even when running the MOSFET at the highest factory calibrated temperature before throttling and shutdown.

Most people don't even join forums when building a PC manufactures have to make the motherboards foolproof. I will give one very small manufacture example
EVGA GeForce GTX 1080/1070 PWM Operating Temperature Update

Recently, it was reported from several sources, that the EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 FTW PWM and memory temperature is running warmer than expected during Furmark (an extreme stress utility). https://www.evga.com/thermalmod/

So if there is even a slight problem like EVGA had folks would find the problem in motherboards by the masses.

 

[trents]

Hey guys can we move on to more profitable matters? This thread has turned into a private argument between three people. I would suggest continuing it via PM.

 

[vitalic66]

@Vit (OP)
Finger test for temp is not an ideal mean of saying its hotter than 40C, 50C, or anything.... Remember 1st 2nd/3rd degree burns can occur at 50-60C depending on conditions. So if you touched something at 120C, you'd probably have a large welt or similar. Please use a temp probe (not the one on the board) to verify your worries.

AM4 boards with 4+2 power phases have the potential to handle the OC of these chips, but with a Ryzen 7 it may have difficulties. As your testing has confirmed, depending on Air cooling quality, your OC potential will vary. By this feedback, it seems like the phase was designed decently well. I'd suggest strapping a fan on top of the VRM fins and than finding an OC that works best, than take it down by 100mhz. Your board is working hard to achieve what others would call a simple OC, so it looks like you need more cooling to handle it.

About the finger touching, it was a bit of a troll about the one who was sceptical about temp reading. But i'd say, the cooler will never reach the temps of the chip it is cooling and touching a burning warm cooler mean the chip must be really really hot. Also, the fact that past a certain temps the PC crashed comfort me in the fact that the temps are true. I will not strap a fan on top of the VRM. My PC is made for performance and looks. I don't want a frankenPC ans you can see here

https://imgur.com/eNqJKJ6

On a more general idea :

My case is special since i have a high end custom watercooling with a 360mm and a 240mm rads in that loop. It mean CPU temps are not a problem, the only issue i am supposed to get is the cilicon wall. In the case of a ryzen CPU it is 4 to 4.1ghz. A wall you are not supposed to hit with the stock cooler. And the stock cooler is the one the motherboards are designed to work with. The VRM are designed to work with most of the setups, not the exotic ones like i got. Also, people just watch the CPU ang GPU temps, like in NZXT CAM. Reviewers, review the CPU on high end boards, the ones with 6 phases and i never seen a reviewer monitor VRM temps on a standard board. Also, there is 0 review to find for my board.

Even AIO can't cool a lot of voltage, when i was able to cool 1.55v. It is extreme but it shows how i hit the VRM temps wall before the cilicon wall (the only wall i should hit).


All i can say is they have designed the boards around a typical setup. The design is really tight to save production cost and i need more room to fullfill the power of my cooler. This is a shame for an AX370 150$ (inc tax) board. I should have bought a 6 phase board.


My post was not about true or not. I gave facts and shared my experience about overclocking a ryzen 7 1700 for more than 600mhz with a 4 phase board and an high end watercooling system. If you have an AM4 board and spend a lot of money to overclock, just look at the VRM temps. You will probably cry.

 

[wingman99]

About the finger touching, it was a bit of a troll about the one who was sceptical about temp reading. But i'd say, the cooler will never reach the temps of the chip it is cooling and touching a burning warm cooler mean the chip must be really really hot. Also, the fact that past a certain temps the PC crashed comfort me in the fact that the temps are true. I will not strap a fan on top of the VRM. My PC is made for performance and looks. I don't want a frankenPC ans you can see here

https://imgur.com/eNqJKJ6

On a more general idea :

My case is special since i have a high end custom watercooling with a 360mm and a 240mm rads in that loop. It mean CPU temps are not a problem, the only issue i am supposed to get is the cilicon wall. In the case of a ryzen CPU it is 4 to 4.1ghz. A wall you are not supposed to hit with the stock cooler. And the stock cooler is the one the motherboards are designed to work with. The VRM are designed to work with most of the setups, not the exotic ones like i got. Also, people just watch the CPU ang GPU temps, like in NZXT CAM. Reviewers, review the CPU on high end boards, the ones with 6 phases and i never seen a reviewer monitor VRM temps on a standard board. Also, there is 0 review to find for my board.

Even AIO can't cool a lot of voltage, when i was able to cool 1.55v. It is extreme but it shows how i hit the VRM temps wall before the cilicon wall (the only wall i should hit).


All i can say is they have designed the boards around a typical setup. The design is really tight to save production cost and i need more room to fullfill the power of my cooler. This is a shame for an AX370 150$ (inc tax) board. I should have bought a 6 phase board.


My post was not about true or not. I gave facts and shared my experience about overclocking a ryzen 7 1700 for more than 600mhz with a 4 phase board and an high end watercooling system. If you have an AM4 board and spend a lot of money to overclock, just look at the VRM temps. You will probably cry.

2 AM4 Gigabyte motherboards that I have seen in the forums with the same Gigabyte 4+2 phase did not crash when overheating the VRM, the fault protection shutdown the PC. Maybe the overclock is unstable and that is why it is crashing?

 

[Woomack]

On mentioned AB350 Gaming 3 every software is showing 110°C+ on vrm after light OC and under full load. I have no idea if it's correct temp but I've seen max 120°C+ on my board and it was still working without shutdown ... just question how long it would work like this. The main issue with most boards is that you can't really tell if vrm temps are correct or not.
On AB350 Gaming 3, part of phases have heatsink, part not ... so question where is thermal sensor and what temp is showing software ?
AB350 Gaming 3 is not selling good because it's perfect. It's selling good because it's quite cheap and looks good comparing to other boards in this price. It was also one of the first boards available on the market and all were buying what they could from limited offer.

 

[vitalic66]

2 AM4 Gigabyte motherboards that I have seen in the forums with the same Gigabyte 4+2 phase did not crash when overheating the VRM, the fault protection shutdown the PC. Maybe the overclock is unstable and that is why it is crashing?

Since the VRM are at 120+ it does not matter if the overclock is unstable anyway.

On mentioned AB350 Gaming 3 every software is showing 110°C+ on vrm after light OC and under full load. I have no idea if it's correct temp but I've seen max 120°C+ on my board and it was still working without shutdown ... just question how long it would work like this. The main issue with most boards is that you can't really tell if vrm temps are correct or not.
On AB350 Gaming 3, part of phases have heatsink, part not ... so question where is thermal sensor and what temp is showing software ?
AB350 Gaming 3 is not selling good because it's perfect. It's selling good because it's quite cheap and looks good comparing to other boards in this price. It was also one of the first boards available on the market and all were buying what they could from limited offer.

The non heat sink part is the one who deliver power to the ram and socket i think. In HWinfo it's VSOC MOS temps. It is cool and not stressed a lot even with 1.4v ram. the VRM MOS temps are the one on the left of the socket. Since the temps at stock with a fan blowing on it are pretty low and i doubt 10c over the embient temp is a bad reading for that voltage and cooling setup.

 

[Woomack]

RAM phase is near DIMM slots, there is one phase for that. The one without heatsink next to CPU is from additional controllers + IGP in future APU chips. HWinfo has problems to show correct voltages and temps on this board, the same as on ASUS X370 Prime or Biostar X370GTN. I had all of them and on all reading wasn't correct ( depends on sensor there were big differences between software ). Gigabyte BIOS is showing only cpu and dimm voltages and only CPU and mobo temp. Maybe something was changed in new BIOS release. I sold ASUS and Gigabyte about 2 months ago so can't check if there are any improvements.

 

[trents]

About the finger touching, it was a bit of a troll about the one who was sceptical about temp reading. But i'd say, the cooler will never reach the temps of the chip it is cooling and touching a burning warm cooler mean the chip must be really really hot. Also, the fact that past a certain temps the PC crashed comfort me in the fact that the temps are true. I will not strap a fan on top of the VRM. My PC is made for performance and looks. I don't want a frankenPC ans you can see here

https://imgur.com/eNqJKJ6

On a more general idea :

My case is special since i have a high end custom watercooling with a 360mm and a 240mm rads in that loop. It mean CPU temps are not a problem, the only issue i am supposed to get is the cilicon wall. In the case of a ryzen CPU it is 4 to 4.1ghz. A wall you are not supposed to hit with the stock cooler. And the stock cooler is the one the motherboards are designed to work with. The VRM are designed to work with most of the setups, not the exotic ones like i got. Also, people just watch the CPU ang GPU temps, like in NZXT CAM. Reviewers, review the CPU on high end boards, the ones with 6 phases and i never seen a reviewer monitor VRM temps on a standard board. Also, there is 0 review to find for my board.

Even AIO can't cool a lot of voltage, when i was able to cool 1.55v. It is extreme but it shows how i hit the VRM temps wall before the cilicon wall (the only wall i should hit).


All i can say is they have designed the boards around a typical setup. The design is really tight to save production cost and i need more room to fullfill the power of my cooler. This is a shame for an AX370 150$ (inc tax) board. I should have bought a 6 phase board.


My post was not about true or not. I gave facts and shared my experience about overclocking a ryzen 7 1700 for more than 600mhz with a 4 phase board and an high end watercooling system. If you have an AM4 board and spend a lot of money to overclock, just look at the VRM temps. You will probably cry.

This is what I was referring to when mentioning the finger touch method, i.e. touching the heat sink, not the actual mosfets. When the heat sink is hot enough to be uncomfortable to the touch then I think the mosfets are too hot. Cooling is needed or downclocking. On bare mosfets you can use an temp gun to check it and get a true reading.

 

[wingman99]

Since the VRM are at 120+ it does not matter if the overclock is unstable anyway.

I don't trust VRM temps with software. Well if your only running high VRM temp with stress testing like I do then make it stable for your self. It is just a short period of time that the VRM will be at a elevated temperature unless you plan to run 24/7 at a elevated temperature that might decrease the life of the motherboard. The gigabyte motherboard has a 3 year warranty so don't worry. I have not seen any 4+2 phase gigabyte boards dying with overclocking and I'm in a lot of forums every day. I don't think you can damage the board with overclocking if you tried, it is designed for it. The CPU is a different story they have not made them with limited voltage like Video cards yet.

The non heat sink part is the one who deliver power to the ram and socket i think. In HWinfo it's VSOC MOS temps. It is cool and not stressed a lot even with 1.4v ram. the VRM MOS temps are the one on the left of the socket. Since the temps at stock with a fan blowing on it are pretty low and i doubt 10c over the embient temp is a bad reading for that voltage and cooling setup.

VSOC is the phase for (voltage system on chip).