AMD and Intel (Both disappointing?)

[NiTrOwow]

Well the title may be be not correct.
But what i would like to discuses a bit about is is it really worth to build another new system based upon newer cpu's that has been released from AMD or Intels side?

1. I mean Haswell isn't that amazing if we look back to Ivy bridge.
2. AMD (and Intel -> Haswell) has overheating problems i read that all over the internet.
3. Most 1366 based system owners stay with their current setup duo to Intels (not that great) release of newer cpu's etc.

Unless you want to pay 600+ USD for a cpu. Recent nice cpu's like back in the days Bloomfields, were not that high price tagged. And had great performance. Well i have to say i haven't see anything good in price performance ratio that comes close to what Bloomfied was back in the days. I wonder whats up with that. Im not a fan of Intel or AMD i just like to have a good bang for the bucks without the crap of stock overheating problems.
I mean it is a fact that Haswell runs hotter than Ivy bridge.

I don't have much to say because it is a long time ago when i had a AMD processor, meanwhile so much had changed and improved? Don't know so wont talk too much about it, only based upon the fact that i read tons of articles on the internet what probably isn't a lie.

Discuss!

 

[EarthDog]

1. Right. But you are not in IB, or even SB, you are 3 generations behind.
2. They do not have 'overheating' problems, but both camps CPU's run warm. They do not overheat at stock speeds with the stock cooler unless there is a problem with the heatsink/fan/mount.
3. I disagree. Nobody, IMO, should upgrade from SB/IB to Haswell. But people on s1366, it is a good move.

 

[dostov]

I have to say I'm not so impressed with the last 2 generations from both camps. AMD Bulldozer architecture isn't mature yet and badly needs a new, better/smaller fabrication process IMO. Intel has failed to impress me lately, with minor performance increases per generation, although I like the fact they have much better TDP than AMD.

I'm a couple generations behind too, but on the AMD side of the fence. I'm still unsure about upgrading also, because I'm not so impressed, but I know I will have to do it at some point.

 

[manu2b]

Well, it looks like you are a gamer...

In this case, no need of upgrade: your 930@4Ghz will handle any (xfire/sli) high end end GPU(s).

If pro PhotoSHoping/Video Editing/music making, then you'll take some noticeable benefit from moving to a Haswell platform.

Edit: on another hand, the two last gens of AMD CPU's (FX) are disapointing. Not talking about APU's, which do a great job with their very good iGPU's!

 

[dostov]

Not talking about APU's, which do a great job with their very good iGPU's!

AMD APUs are sweet! I love them! They are snappy, good graphics, good memory support and good supporting platform! And they are dirt cheap.

It is, without a doubt, their best product right now. This is clearly why they will release Steamroller cores on their APUs first, and stil haven't announced any plans to release them in HPDT or server market yet. They concentrate on their APUs, as they should.

 

[NiTrOwow]

Well, it looks like you are a gamer...

In this case, no need of upgrade: your 930@4Ghz will handle any (xfire/sli) high end end GPU(s).

If pro PhotoSHoping/Video Editing/music making, then you'll take some noticeable benefit from moving to a Haswell platform.

Edit: on another hand, the two last gens of AMD CPU's (FX) are disapointing. Not talking about APU's, which do a great job with their very good iGPU's!

Yup totally agree at your point oif view at AMD, IMO they did a bad job too, and like the guy said above they need to make the process much smaller in nm, because they would also require less voltage and the processes would also produce less heat -> in other words much better. I have build a few APU systems too a few years ago, they are awesome for normal workstations, good build in gpus, and just for office usage think about browsing, word, excel, presentation etc, perfect.And ow power usage and low temps

1. Right. But you are not in IB, or even SB, you are 3 generations behind.
2. They do not have 'overheating' problems, but both camps CPU's run warm. They do not overheat at stock speeds with the stock cooler unless there is a problem with the heatsink/fan/mount.
3. I disagree. Nobody, IMO, should upgrade from SB/IB to Haswell. But people on s1366, it is a good move.

Well that's true but it all depends IMO on how you use the machine, if you are a hardcore gamer you would likely go for indeed a newer generation not only because of PCI 3.0 but also for the optimizations in the newer gens for games. But i actually don't care much anymore about it, if my pc can run it on medium fine. I'll just run it a bit lower than instead of high or extreme and 16xaa etc (example)

Well, it looks like you are a gamer...

In this case, no need of upgrade: your 930@4Ghz will handle any (xfire/sli) high end end GPU(s).

Not a (addicted) gamer anymore. Just a bit sometimes when i have nothing to do. And that's the last year only been yesterday and last week. I know the cpu can handle the gpu, otherwise i didn't but the gpu at all. But wasn't actually worth it since i did not play a lot of games anymore well actually not for a pretty long time.. Until i had free time, not time that i could use for other projects or common stuff.

AMD APUs are sweet! I love them! They are snappy, good graphics, good memory support and good supporting platform! And they are dirt cheap.

It is, without a doubt, their best product right now. This is clearly why they will release Steamroller cores on their APUs first, and stil haven't announced any plans to release them in HPDT or server market yet. They concentrate on their APUs, as they should.

Don't know. Did not had a decent AMD cpu myself but i only read bad things about newer gens on the internet and a guy i know in my class does have a phenom 9xx serie cpu and he only has serious over heating problems and i tried to help him but nothing seems to solve this issue. (new cpu paste, airflow, other cooler etc).

 

[Wipeout]

Well the title may be be not correct.
But what i would like to discuses a bit about is is it really worth to build another new system based upon newer cpu's that has been released from AMD or Intels side?

My 2.5 cents

A FX 6300 is only 95 watts, and overclocks fine, without heat issues,.A 212 Evo is all you need for cooling.That's assuming your aiming under 4.5g on your overclock.Between the cpu and cooler, your looking at 150 dollars.Estimate another 150 for a mid range motherboard.I would not go lower than that, if overclocking is a preference.Better heatsinks, vrm ect...Add a 670 or higher, and max out all games at 1080P, or drop down to a 660 and still get most of the benefits, without breaking the bank.The 700 series has some good deals.You jump into a 8350, your looking at a higher end motherboard, and a better cooling solution.Intel 4th gen should give you better performance in single threaded apps, a better choice of motherboards, and the best technology.Cooling is the key.Are you going the gaming route, or do you use more multi-thread apps ? The 6300 is a good multi-tasker, without major heat problems.Heat seems to be the enemy at both camps atm, so it really comes down to cooling, decent motherboard, and personal choice.

 

[(G{in}[AK)TION]]

this somehow reminds me of spongebob

 

[NiTrOwow]

My 2.5 cents

A FX 6300 is only 95 watts, and overclocks fine, without heat issues,.A 212 Evo is all you need for cooling.That's assuming your aiming under 4.5g on your overclock.Between the cpu and cooler, your looking at 150 dollars.Estimate another 150 for a mid range motherboard.I would not go lower than that, if overclocking is a preference.Better heatsinks, vrm ect...Add a 670 or higher, and max out all games at 1080P, or drop down to a 660 and still get most of the benefits, without breaking the bank.The 700 series has some good deals.You jump into a 8350, your looking at a higher end motherboard, and a better cooling solution.Intel 4th gen should give you better performance in single threaded apps, a better choice of motherboards, and the best technology.Cooling is the key.Are you going the gaming route, or do you use more multi-thread apps ? The 6300 is a good multi-tasker, without major heat problems.Heat seems to be the enemy at both camps atm, so it really comes down to cooling, decent motherboard, and personal choice.

Yea i've been searching and reading a lot, it just depends for what you want to use it for, if you need better game performance or single threaded application performance etc. Thanks for pointing this out, i was looking around at AMD's side and they indeed have good processors in performance per $/€ ratio

Only thing i still need then is a big a$$ cpu cooler. Hydro or watercooling.

 

[glussier]

Going from an i7 920 @ 4ghz to an FX6300 @ 4.5ghz wouldn't be a good move. You would probably get roughly the same performance as you have now and the new setup would probably consume the same energy or a little more than your i7 920.

Lol, if you want to upgrade now, you might be doomed into staying with Intel or wait longer and see if AMD is able to improve it's cpu performance.

As for APUs they are good for what they were designed for, that is entry level gaming. But, for anybody who wants to use a real graphic card, because of their weak cpu part, they are a bad choice.

 

[SMOKEU]

That's exactly why I've replaced my faulty SB rig with a Nexus 7 until Intel release a decent CPU. I'm not paying approximately the same price for a Haswell that I paid for my SB 2.5 years ago without any real performance increase since Haswell generally clocks much lower than SB/IB.

 

[EarthDog]

It would seemingly take a 5GHz+ SB to beat a 4.5GHz Haswell.

 

[NiTrOwow]

It would seemingly take a 5GHz+ SB to beat a 4.5GHz Haswell.

Indeed most important things these days are architecture, lithography (smaller process size), etc.

And the improvements and new feature intel will add. It depends but most of the time those are the most important those are the ones that lower the voltage, lower the heat and improve the performance.

But yeah you and i already knew that

 

[tym64]

Lets face it, us desktop power users are becoming a thing of the past. Everyone is going mobile, so AMD and INTEL concentrate on that. Why put effort into the desktop pc when the market continues to shrink on a daily basis???

 

[(G{in}[AK)TION]]

Lets face it, us desktop power users are becoming a thing of the past. Everyone is going mobile, so AMD and INTEL concentrate on that. Why put effort into the desktop pc when the market continues to shrink on a daily basis???

i dont think so.

but i do want to say that yesterday i was taking a look at the shield and thought it was interesting.

from what i understand, you can use the shield to remote into the pc and play games that way on your screen. like Virtual network gaming? i think this was pretty cool.

i believe that the PC will still be needed since it might become something like a hybrid server in a way...like you could interface directly with it or use your mobile stuff to interface with it. whether at home or somewhere in town.

so i still think pc is still well and alive.

 

[NiTrOwow]

i dont think so.

but i do want to say that yesterday i was taking a look at the shield and thought it was interesting.

from what i understand, you can use the shield to remote into the pc and play games that way on your screen. like Virtual network gaming? i think this was pretty cool.

i believe that the PC will still be needed since it might become something like a hybrid server in a way...like you could interface directly with it or use your mobile stuff to interface with it. whether at home or somewhere in town.

so i still think pc is still well and alive.

This guy is talking a bit of things that are true, but also not. it is a 50/50. PC and Chips are getting less powerful and cheaper and the higher ends are just too much. The mid range price class is ****ed up duo to the fact that most of desktop users don't have the money for expensive parts. So what is Intel doing? Integrating gpu's in their chips, and making them cheaper. But if you look back at x58 is was more a bang from the past. If you compare older platforms with the x58 one, but now a days the increase is not that great as back when i7 came out. The same was with p4 478/775 to dual cores on 775.

I think that the big problem today, people don't spend 300 usd on a chip. It's too much for em

And yes i know those are desktop processors, but still first or second gens i7's were server cpus. But i believe Intel did not yet intergrated gpu in cpus back in 2008. They did i believe in 2009.

Hmm

Intel:
370(A)
423
478
775
771
1366

AMD:
462(A)
754
939
AM2
AM2+
AM3

 

[lopgok]

I am not very impressed with Intel or AMD. I have owned both. I happen to like ECC memory. So I had a pentium pro and then a pIII 933. Both were solid performers.

Then I got 2 generations of low power xeons (prestonia and nocona).

Then I switched to a phenom II 940 and a 3 core phenom II.

I wanted to buy a steamroller, but it isn't available yet. The newer intel processors are quite fast, but they are expensive. The xeons have ECC but they are very expensive.

I bought a used dual L5420 xeon system, which was reasonable fast, but the fbdimm memories were blazing hot. Despite my best efforts, they run at 80C.

I decided to build a newer system, using dual L5520 processors. The cpu and mb are used, but hopefully they will be reliable...

I would rather have newer xeons, but I don't want to spend $3k each.

 

[EarthDog]

Why do you need ecc memory?

 

[freeagent]

I still like my rig. Its not new and flashy, and it laughs at tree huggers. But it still rips pretty good. Its big, and cumbersome, and kind of gets in the way.. but it still works well, and nothing has burnt out. Well I did pop one of the pwm fan controllers on the board, and it wont drive a fan anymore, but I did that with my x48 Rampage too when it was new

I wouldn't mind moving into a haswell setup. Its a bit friendlier to the environment, and I could put into a nice little lunchbox case and let it run like I do with this one

Hopefully I get one that clocks well, I have never seen 5ghz outside of a post screen

 

[lopgok]

Why do you need ecc memory?

Because I care about data integrity. I have 2 raid-5 fileservers. My main computer stays up until I have to run some silly microsoft security patch. I have another machine that is running 24x7 for the last 10 years. I only reboot it for linux kernel updates. I know about ksplice, but I don't need that level of availability.

Unless you have ECC memory and a motherboard that logs memory errors, you don't know how many memory errors you have. Look at google. All of their servers are running ECC memory. Why would they do that if they didn't need to? The memory is more expensive than non ECC memory. They do it because data integrity is important to them.

A few years ago a college bough about 500 apple 1U servers. They didn't have ECC memory. The college wrote code that would detect and correct memory errors in their calculations. The amount of memory errors was high enough that apple ended up replacing all of the servers with similar ones that had ECC memory.

I used to get about 1 single bit error a year when I was using my intel providence (pr-440fx) motherboard. That was with 320mb of ram. Now, my builds have 4, 8 or 32 gb of ram. I suspect I am getting at least an error a month. Unfortunately my asus motherboards don't log memory errors.

My newest supermicro mb (X7 series with 8gb of fbdimm) does, but it hasn't been up long enough for me to check memory errors.

See http://www.realworldtech.com/fermi-ecc/