I have to imagine the AMD is not charging for such an arbitrary value that very few people care for. GFLOP/W? Who uses that metric for anything in the first place? Does that metric transfer to mining or folding? I am an occasional folder and never heard that mentioned (its PPD/W, and I am not sure how that translates to GF/W or if it is even linear enough to do so).
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FRONTPAGE AMD Launches R9 290 Series Graphics Cards
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GFLOP/W is a overall efficiency, although doesnt necessarely benefit folding or mining because folding or mining is in need of special values because its not directly affected to the theoretical overall peformane. In gaming terms the GFLOP value is actually pretty useful and got some meaning. For generall compute matters, the performance need to be pinned down, overall values are close to useless.
Overall: Simply, how much FPS can you get out of how much heat... of course nobody cares cost unless they are minning, because they do it for bucks and cost is becoming a factor.
But the main interest is, how much temp a card is creating... to much temp, and it will explode without giving real benefit, thats it. Performance with the creation of overheating is useless. Some people live in very hot countrys and may experience 35 C room temp, its gonna be a real hassle for them using a 290 type GPU.
All those specs are just "secondary interests", the main interest is always "raw and sheer performance" and it has never been different at all, especially in the US that mentality is almost "world leading". It usualy doesnt matter at what cost the performance wil be created... even when a card is running 95C out of the box, at a critical condition.
But there are different peoples and views... not everyone is the same such as enthusiasts or a 08/15 american civilian. My view is different too, i do care secondary specs and how cool the card is able to run while maintaining lot of performance, not the best raw performance, the best balance between all the important values. Obviously, overvolting is no question to me.
Again, in term i make a rating taking into account all the important values (to me, not to the average american) and sum up those values, the 7870 is at a incredible high rating.
Overall: Simply, how much FPS can you get out of how much heat... of course nobody cares cost unless they are minning, because they do it for bucks and cost is becoming a factor.
But the main interest is, how much temp a card is creating... to much temp, and it will explode without giving real benefit, thats it. Performance with the creation of overheating is useless. Some people live in very hot countrys and may experience 35 C room temp, its gonna be a real hassle for them using a 290 type GPU.
All those specs are just "secondary interests", the main interest is always "raw and sheer performance" and it has never been different at all, especially in the US that mentality is almost "world leading". It usualy doesnt matter at what cost the performance wil be created... even when a card is running 95C out of the box, at a critical condition.
But there are different peoples and views... not everyone is the same such as enthusiasts or a 08/15 american civilian. My view is different too, i do care secondary specs and how cool the card is able to run while maintaining lot of performance, not the best raw performance, the best balance between all the important values. Obviously, overvolting is no question to me.
Again, in term i make a rating taking into account all the important values (to me, not to the average american) and sum up those values, the 7870 is at a incredible high rating.
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Gflops/w is related to consumption, and is more of an enterprise kinda thing...you know, gpu clusters with lots of em draw a lot of power, and the card that does the most work for less money in the long run will be the most profitable one to run your stuff on.
@Ivy: stop hating on the 290x...95c out of the box doesn't mean squat, you can't compare temperatures over different architectures. The part is rated for that, it's like comparing an fx8350's 45c load temps vs a 3770k's 90c.
@Ivy: stop hating on the 290x...95c out of the box doesn't mean squat, you can't compare temperatures over different architectures. The part is rated for that, it's like comparing an fx8350's 45c load temps vs a 3770k's 90c.
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Rated? Good joke.... it doesnt mean that the processor wont start to run unstable at the exactly same temperature such as any other processor of the GCN series.
GFLOPS/W got many different uses, not enterprise only. Some people just enjoy to be "greener" but most of the americans never heard about. In term every single american household (around 100 M) would save up 50 W, they could spare themself at least 3 nuclear power plants, but obviously many people dont care how much plants sitting close to theyr home (at least i hope so). OK, they got prehaps 100 active plants already (thats 50% of the worlds reactors), clearly the world record, so why not to have 3 more, doesnt matter anymore i assume. The total power production of US is probably 1/3 of the worlds total power production, a crazy value.
Well, not that the badaboom matter changed the Japanese mentality at all, they are still building new plants, its that critical for theyr "economy", they cant live without. However, its somewhat disgusting always to hype "the more power the better" mentality. But in term something goes boom... the whole world will suffer from radiation because the particles will go around the world and wont stay at the badaboom location. I hope there is new more secure plants soon but it will take long time in order to exchange all of them and it will be pricy, so the state will fear a rapid replacement.
Of course, no problem when a minority of 1% OCers are running 1000 W PCs, another 5% 750 W machines. But it doesnt mean that there arnt people who may have a different target. So GFLOP/W (simply, the hardwares efficiency) is a useful spec to them, actually to a majority even.
GFLOPS/W got many different uses, not enterprise only. Some people just enjoy to be "greener" but most of the americans never heard about. In term every single american household (around 100 M) would save up 50 W, they could spare themself at least 3 nuclear power plants, but obviously many people dont care how much plants sitting close to theyr home (at least i hope so). OK, they got prehaps 100 active plants already (thats 50% of the worlds reactors), clearly the world record, so why not to have 3 more, doesnt matter anymore i assume. The total power production of US is probably 1/3 of the worlds total power production, a crazy value.
Well, not that the badaboom matter changed the Japanese mentality at all, they are still building new plants, its that critical for theyr "economy", they cant live without. However, its somewhat disgusting always to hype "the more power the better" mentality. But in term something goes boom... the whole world will suffer from radiation because the particles will go around the world and wont stay at the badaboom location. I hope there is new more secure plants soon but it will take long time in order to exchange all of them and it will be pricy, so the state will fear a rapid replacement.
Of course, no problem when a minority of 1% OCers are running 1000 W PCs, another 5% 750 W machines. But it doesnt mean that there arnt people who may have a different target. So GFLOP/W (simply, the hardwares efficiency) is a useful spec to them, actually to a majority even.
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You mean its real?
Yes and no. You are using the wrong terminology. The term GFLOP /W is not commonly used in this segment. However there is a website that actually takes FPS (something real and tangible for this crowd) and divides it by power use to come up with this efficiency number. More tangible values like FPS, PPD, or bitcoins mined is the metric used to give that value for the consumer.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/R9_290X_OC/27.html
Please understand that GFLOP /W in our world means little because it is a theorhetical value so to speak. I mean that to say that GFLOP /W does not DIRECTLY translate to FPS. There is a whole additional level that needs to be considered, such as drivers to name one. GFLOP /W is more of a compute term really, which is why I mentioned bitcoin and F@H. And even then, there are other layers to consider too, drivers, the client used, etc.
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The FPS will vary from game to game, so problem is there is just no solid standart in order to judge its real efficiency. But when i say 7870 is very high, its simply how i say it and its still a well balanced card not focusing on peformance only.
But judgings its real efficiency is just to complicated when it performs different at almost every single software... thats just how it is and i wonder how to make a real standart out of it. Anyway, some sites such as "techpowerup" are simply adding some of the most popular games and are comparing the FPS gotten for certain resolutions and the heat used in order to achieve it. Finally we have FPS per Watt at a certain resolution. So that means: FPS/W @1080P or other resolutions. Thats surely a bit complicated but it cant be easyer than that. For most accurate results every single software need to be judged in a seaparate manner. Again, i dare to say that the 7870 and 270X will scale very high. The 7870 is still competing with 270X but techpowerup wasnt OCing the RAM to 1400 on the 7870, even if that stuff comes at free performance without any real increase in heat.
Anyway, we can clearly see, that the 270X is at the top of the list on techpowerups "FPS/W @1080p rating", the currently most important mainstream resolution. The only card with higher efficiency than that is the 650 TI, its actually the GPU im currently using for my HTPC because its a very important value for a HTPC (according to MY view, i dont care others...).
Of course the 7870 is still at the very top, its top 3 or top 4, dependable on game @1080P. But at the same time its able to perform in a useful way, useful for high detail gaming. The 650 TI and 650 may be higher FPS/W but performance is lacking to much at high details. The balance is truly a difficult matter but i know exactly what i talk about when i say "a very good balanced card", that counts for the 7870 and (non overvolt, a HAWK is boosting performance and is paying with efficiency) 270X more than any other card.
Ultimately when comparing to a 7970 GHz, its 30% lesser efficiency @1080P compared to a 7870 GHz. Just interestings to see that not much changed after all, even if already over 1 year has passed since the release of the "leading cards", 7870 is one of them. On top of that, i know many 7870 able to clock at 1150/1400 without any overvolt, they are truly good performing 1080P cards with very economical power use and able to maintain a low TDP (less than 180W). A card very useful for mainstream. Actually, at 8x AA (4x AA is a bit on the low side, 7870 usualy got no problem with higher AA) the 7870/270X efficiency is 2 times higher than that of the GTX 580 and at OC it will clearly beat it. So, the 580 GTX may still look good on the performance sheet but thats overrated taking its inferior efficiency into account.
But judgings its real efficiency is just to complicated when it performs different at almost every single software... thats just how it is and i wonder how to make a real standart out of it. Anyway, some sites such as "techpowerup" are simply adding some of the most popular games and are comparing the FPS gotten for certain resolutions and the heat used in order to achieve it. Finally we have FPS per Watt at a certain resolution. So that means: FPS/W @1080P or other resolutions. Thats surely a bit complicated but it cant be easyer than that. For most accurate results every single software need to be judged in a seaparate manner. Again, i dare to say that the 7870 and 270X will scale very high. The 7870 is still competing with 270X but techpowerup wasnt OCing the RAM to 1400 on the 7870, even if that stuff comes at free performance without any real increase in heat.
Anyway, we can clearly see, that the 270X is at the top of the list on techpowerups "FPS/W @1080p rating", the currently most important mainstream resolution. The only card with higher efficiency than that is the 650 TI, its actually the GPU im currently using for my HTPC because its a very important value for a HTPC (according to MY view, i dont care others...).
Of course the 7870 is still at the very top, its top 3 or top 4, dependable on game @1080P. But at the same time its able to perform in a useful way, useful for high detail gaming. The 650 TI and 650 may be higher FPS/W but performance is lacking to much at high details. The balance is truly a difficult matter but i know exactly what i talk about when i say "a very good balanced card", that counts for the 7870 and (non overvolt, a HAWK is boosting performance and is paying with efficiency) 270X more than any other card.
Ultimately when comparing to a 7970 GHz, its 30% lesser efficiency @1080P compared to a 7870 GHz. Just interestings to see that not much changed after all, even if already over 1 year has passed since the release of the "leading cards", 7870 is one of them. On top of that, i know many 7870 able to clock at 1150/1400 without any overvolt, they are truly good performing 1080P cards with very economical power use and able to maintain a low TDP (less than 180W). A card very useful for mainstream. Actually, at 8x AA (4x AA is a bit on the low side, 7870 usualy got no problem with higher AA) the 7870/270X efficiency is 2 times higher than that of the GTX 580 and at OC it will clearly beat it. So, the 580 GTX may still look good on the performance sheet but thats overrated taking its inferior efficiency into account.
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)@1080p on a HD4000! Hurrah!
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But they are bad balance.
Balance means, to rate every single factor and sum up those factors results. Here a example that a 7870 still would beat a Intel IGP when using a easy "balance rating @1080P": Take into account, in term a GPU cant be used for a certain resolution or spec... it cant truly compete, its out of competition thats how the cookie crumbles!
7870/270X: Winner of Balance
Heat: 7
Noise (using top notch cooler): 7 (650 TI= 8 means almost not audible, both 9+ 10 is reserved to IGP only, means no and not any noise at all)
Performance: 8 (280X=9 and 290= 10)
FPS/Watt: 8 (650 TI + Laptop GPUs =9, the 10 is reserved for IGP only)
Rated usefullness for high detail gaming @ 1080P: 8 (280X =9, 290 = 10, any cards higher than that is in my mind overkill at 1080P).
=38
Newest Intel IGP: At 1080P high detail gaming, it cant compete (so basically, even if we rate it... the bad competition rating can easely throw it out of order).
Heat: 10
Noise: 10
Performance: 3 (roughly on par with a ... uhm i dunno... dont ask me, its below anything i could compare with but its still better than 1 or 2)
FPS/Watt: 10
Rated usefullness for high detail gaming @ 1080P: 1 (means not playable at all). Even at 720P with low detail (for example BF3) it will drop to 20 FPS or lower in countless games, thats just no use.
=34
Balance means, to rate every single factor and sum up those factors results. Here a example that a 7870 still would beat a Intel IGP when using a easy "balance rating @1080P": Take into account, in term a GPU cant be used for a certain resolution or spec... it cant truly compete, its out of competition thats how the cookie crumbles!
7870/270X: Winner of Balance
Heat: 7
Noise (using top notch cooler): 7 (650 TI= 8 means almost not audible, both 9+ 10 is reserved to IGP only, means no and not any noise at all)
Performance: 8 (280X=9 and 290= 10)
FPS/Watt: 8 (650 TI + Laptop GPUs =9, the 10 is reserved for IGP only)
Rated usefullness for high detail gaming @ 1080P: 8 (280X =9, 290 = 10, any cards higher than that is in my mind overkill at 1080P).
=38
Newest Intel IGP: At 1080P high detail gaming, it cant compete (so basically, even if we rate it... the bad competition rating can easely throw it out of order).
Heat: 10
Noise: 10
Performance: 3 (roughly on par with a ... uhm i dunno... dont ask me, its below anything i could compare with but its still better than 1 or 2)
FPS/Watt: 10
Rated usefullness for high detail gaming @ 1080P: 1 (means not playable at all). Even at 720P with low detail (for example BF3) it will drop to 20 FPS or lower in countless games, thats just no use.
=34
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Ugh, I really don't want to continue this nonsense, but how is the heat and noise a 10 on the igp? You can't count the cpu and its heat in that! Or if you do, treat it like you did with your precious 7870 with a better than refernce cooler.
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Your rating is really strange...it's way simpler than that.
If it's a gaming card, can it play the games you want at the fps and detail levels (and resolutions) you want? Does it fit your budget? Is it quiet enough? Does it overclock? (if you want to...I'd highly reccomend it, free performance).
If it's a gaming card, can it play the games you want at the fps and detail levels (and resolutions) you want? Does it fit your budget? Is it quiet enough? Does it overclock? (if you want to...I'd highly reccomend it, free performance).
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I simply give max rating, thats it, i cant truly rate it because i cant separate the heat/noise produced by the IGP from the CPU. Whats clear: The IGP will produce heat and that means additional noise because the CPU will need more cooling (some CPU coolers as a result have to speed up).
"The demand" isnt part of a balance rating. In term you do demand 100 FPS, the only possible card could be a 7990. Thats not balance, thats simply the result of your demand.
Usualy a balance will include playable FPS at a certain resolution. Playable means above 30 FPS in average, easy as that. Thats a normalized standart spec of the term playable without individual "superior" demands. So, a card unable to deliver playable FPS is out of competition, the demand is no matter at all.
Of course, the term "playable" is relative. For a RPG such as Skyrim 30 is playable but for a racing or shooter game its above 40, else there is issues with gameplay. This is not a demand or any other assumptive "dreams" its simply a standart knowledge by scientist regarding the term "playable".
"The demand" isnt part of a balance rating. In term you do demand 100 FPS, the only possible card could be a 7990. Thats not balance, thats simply the result of your demand.
Usualy a balance will include playable FPS at a certain resolution. Playable means above 30 FPS in average, easy as that. Thats a normalized standart spec of the term playable without individual "superior" demands. So, a card unable to deliver playable FPS is out of competition, the demand is no matter at all.
Of course, the term "playable" is relative. For a RPG such as Skyrim 30 is playable but for a racing or shooter game its above 40, else there is issues with gameplay. This is not a demand or any other assumptive "dreams" its simply a standart knowledge by scientist regarding the term "playable".
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In my mind, those cards are overkill for 1080P, so they indeed may go above 10, its simply to much. You dont truly need it for that kind of resolution at current time (may change 1 year after, of course).
I bet, to ED the 580 GTX is equal to the 7870/270X because it got almost same performance.
I bet, to ED the 580 GTX is equal to the 7870/270X because it got almost same performance.
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Even 7970/280X can't max all games on single gpu configs these days...r9 290 > all, value wise. We need non ref for the mainstream guys.
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Why shouldnt i be able to max all settings at 1080P using a 7970/280X? OCers seems to be weird people.
@1080P
Guess even the most demanding game i currently own, Tomb Raider, would still keep up around 40 FPS at least, thats including TressFX, a insane performance hog. 40 FPS is totaly fine for Adventure, i only need 60+ FPS for shooters or racers. I guess the only game any card stronger than 280X/7970 would make real benefit is BF4, but in term im not playing it (and i dont) there is no real advantage by using a even stronger card at 1080P. The even stronger cards (the 290 types) are mainly for high res gaming.
Using 290 types for 1080P gaming at current time is insane and simply to much bucks spent, prehaps middle of next year its a viable and truly useful option (but at that time Nvidia may relase Maxwell and we will have even stronger cards) but the next 5-6 months its just overkill, thats how i feel about.
Besides, the 7990 is a double GPU and out of competition because i basically compare that stuff to CF builds, so it will have to compete against CF and not single GPUs. CF in my mind is for 4k gaming (or eyefinity) and not needed for lower res than that. Its just way over the top and the bucks spent not reasonable at all, its like using a 120 MPH car when there is a tempo limit of 60 MPH.
@1080P
Guess even the most demanding game i currently own, Tomb Raider, would still keep up around 40 FPS at least, thats including TressFX, a insane performance hog. 40 FPS is totaly fine for Adventure, i only need 60+ FPS for shooters or racers. I guess the only game any card stronger than 280X/7970 would make real benefit is BF4, but in term im not playing it (and i dont) there is no real advantage by using a even stronger card at 1080P. The even stronger cards (the 290 types) are mainly for high res gaming.
Using 290 types for 1080P gaming at current time is insane and simply to much bucks spent, prehaps middle of next year its a viable and truly useful option (but at that time Nvidia may relase Maxwell and we will have even stronger cards) but the next 5-6 months its just overkill, thats how i feel about.
Besides, the 7990 is a double GPU and out of competition because i basically compare that stuff to CF builds, so it will have to compete against CF and not single GPUs. CF in my mind is for 4k gaming (or eyefinity) and not needed for lower res than that. Its just way over the top and the bucks spent not reasonable at all, its like using a 120 MPH car when there is a tempo limit of 60 MPH.
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There are a lot of people, myself included, who dont consider 40fps to be worth playing at. Sure its "playable" but honestly I'd rather not play the game at all than play it at 40fps. So I dont really consider the 7970 to be good enough for me at 1080 with max settings for the games I'm playing (metro, far cry3, crysis3, tomb raider and so on). I'm sure there are a lot of people who think like I do.
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