AMD Phenom IIx4 965BE overclocking

[RGone]

Actually "adil95" you might do much better in the ram forum section with ram questions. There they may feel like discussing all the ram permutations. I actually never find it necessary to do a lot of changes to ram timings with good ram on a good motherboard. The changes just do not justify the effort to check every change since what to change is going to be memory brand and type specific in many cases.

 

[trents]

Of course! I overclocked in the bios, not on AMDOverdrive. What I don't get is how much should i tighten the numbers? And if I change one number, then do all of them need to be changed? Its not the process of changing the numbers i dont get, i know how to use my bios, its what i should change the numbers to. For example, if my Cas Latency is 9 clocks, my RAS to CAS delay is 9, my tRAS is 24 clocks (just listing a couple i see in the CPO-z memory tab) by how much should I change these numbers? if I decrease them, how much before my system crashes? I'm sure its different for every system, but there must be a standard i can tighten it to right?

I already told you that answer - twice already! Change them to what the SPD column of CPU-z says they should be for the frequency you are running the ram at. Am I missing something here? You already have CPU-z downloaded and installed. You even posted pics of it back in post #7. You can look that up for yourself. Look at the XMP-1600 column since you are running your ram at 1600 mhz.

 

[adil95]

I already told you that answer - twice already! Change them to what the SPD column of CPU-z says they should be for the frequency you are running the ram at. Am I missing something here? You already have CPU-z downloaded and installed. You even posted pics of it back in post #7. You can look that up for yourself. Look at the XMP-1600 column since you are running your ram at 1600 mhz.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
see, i thought CPU-z just reads what my current system is, i'm just now figuring out that auto means the speeds might fluctuate and solidifying them will "tighten" the ram
okay, dumb moment, got it haha
I actually dropped my ram to 1333 to stabilize the system, if i bring it back up to 1600 then insert in the timings in cpu-z do oyu think my system will become stable at the increased speed? the auto timings could be the cause of instability right? I'll give this a shot tomorrow! Thanks for all your help, its really appreciated

 

[trents]

It might be stable with the ram at 1600 mhz but many Deneb CPUs don't like it that fast unless you relax the timings even more than what the SPD XMP-1600 column shows. And when you relax timings you sacrifice some performance so it's somewhat offsetting. I would not bother with that as the performance gain is minimal to none anyway above 1333 mhz with that family of CPUs. "Auto" doesn't exactly mean "fluctuate". It means the bios will dynamically change the timings to appropriately match the frequency but it doesn't always work as well as it should.

 

[RGone]

Man I hate to say this but this statement makes no sense to me at all. [see, i thought CPU-z just reads what my current system is, i'm just now figuring out that auto means the speeds might fluctuate and solidifying them will "tighten" the ram] << I just hate to see you saying viola when am not sure you have it straight.

No clue at all. The computer is in your hands to test and see. [I actually dropped my ram to 1333 to stabilize the system, if i bring it back up to 1600 then insert in the timings in cpu-z do oyu think my system will become stable at the increased speed?]

Auto ram timing settings are to be checked against the SPD tab in CPUz or in the specifications of your ram from the ram manufacturer. And ram timings have to be pretty far off base to cause instability. This because normally ram seems to be 'slowed' and timings loosened by using AUTO. So I say no to [auto timings could be the cause of instability right?]

I check what CPUz at the Memory Tab reports and adjust the four major ram timings according to the SPD tab or the ram manufacturer specs and THEN I do know what the ram is set to for a given ram speed.

 

[swampdonkey]

Of course! I overclocked in the bios, not on AMDOverdrive. What I don't get is how much should i tighten the numbers? And if I change one number, then do all of them need to be changed? Its not the process of changing the numbers i dont get, i know how to use my bios, its what i should change the numbers to. For example, if my Cas Latency is 9 clocks, my RAS to CAS delay is 9, my tRAS is 24 clocks (just listing a couple i see in the CPO-z memory tab) by how much should I change these numbers? if I decrease them, how much before my system crashes? I'm sure its different for every system, but there must be a standard i can tighten it to right?

just do it by 1 at a time. lower the first timing by 1 from say 9 to 8. then boot. if it is stable (it most likely is) then shutdown and continue dropping the other timings. i would say try something like 7-7-7-20. boot and test stability with prime for a little bit then confirm with something like memtest or just play some games. your board has a memok! button so dont worry about getting bad timings. you just auto reset with that button lol. however the button does wipe your overclock so be sure to save it to a profile in the bios.

 

[swampdonkey]

ohh and i forgot to add. as timings get tighter you may have to drop the frequency which i wouldnt recommend doing cause you are already at 1333mhz. If the memory isnt stable then increase the voltage to it by a little bit. say from 1.5v to 1.55v.

 

[adil95]

Man I hate to say this but this statement makes no sense to me at all. [see, i thought CPU-z just reads what my current system is, i'm just now figuring out that auto means the speeds might fluctuate and solidifying them will "tighten" the ram] << I just hate to see you saying viola when am not sure you have it straight.

No clue at all. The computer is in your hands to test and see. [I actually dropped my ram to 1333 to stabilize the system, if i bring it back up to 1600 then insert in the timings in cpu-z do oyu think my system will become stable at the increased speed?]

Auto ram timing settings are to be checked against the SPD tab in CPUz or in the specifications of your ram from the ram manufacturer. And ram timings have to be pretty far off base to cause instability. This because normally ram seems to be 'slowed' and timings loosened by using AUTO. So I say no to [auto timings could be the cause of instability right?]

I check what CPUz at the Memory Tab reports and adjust the four major ram timings according to the SPD tab or the ram manufacturer specs and THEN I do know what the ram is set to for a given ram speed.

haha yeah, when i get excited about understanding something i usually dont make sense
what i meant by that was that the auto timings probably vary the timings a little to what the computer thinks is the "best," whereas going into the bios and setting this prevents it from changing the timings i want, right?

 

[RGone]

Ram Timings we usually can adjust most easily.

Most ram is shown when bought with the first four timings listed as outlined below. CPUz normally shows the first four timings in order down the page and adds one more which is tREF and has the CMD rate listed lastly most of the time.

The operations that these numbers indicate are the following: CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-CMD. To understand them, bear in mind that the memory is internally organized as a matrix, where the data are stored at the intersection of the lines and columns.

For instance 8, 8, 8, 24, 2T >> CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-CMD.

CL: CAS Latency. The time it takes between a command having been sent to the memory and when it begins to reply to it. It is the time it takes between the processor asking for some data from the memory and then returning it.

tRCD: RAS to CAS Delay. The time it takes between the activation of the line (RAS) and the column (CAS) where the data are stored in the matrix.

tRP: RAS Precharge. The time it takes between disabling the access to a line of data and the beginning of the access to another line of data.

tRAS: Active to Precharge Delay. How long the memory has to wait until the next access to the memory can be initiated.

CMD: Command Rate. The time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. Sometimes this value is not announced. It usually is T1 (1 clock cycle) or T2
(2 clock cycles).

 

[swampdonkey]

Most ram is shown when bought with the first four timings listed as outlined below. CPUz normally shows the first four timings in order down the page and adds one more which is tREF and has the CMD rate listed lastly most of the time.

The operations that these numbers indicate are the following: CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-CMD. To understand them, bear in mind that the memory is internally organized as a matrix, where the data are stored at the intersection of the lines and columns.

For instance 8, 8, 8, 24, 2T >> CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-CMD.

CL: CAS Latency. The time it takes between a command having been sent to the memory and when it begins to reply to it. It is the time it takes between the processor asking for some data from the memory and then returning it.

tRCD: RAS to CAS Delay. The time it takes between the activation of the line (RAS) and the column (CAS) where the data are stored in the matrix.

tRP: RAS Precharge. The time it takes between disabling the access to a line of data and the beginning of the access to another line of data.

tRAS: Active to Precharge Delay. How long the memory has to wait until the next access to the memory can be initiated.

CMD: Command Rate. The time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. Sometimes this value is not announced. It usually is T1 (1 clock cycle) or T2
(2 clock cycles).

they need to make me some ram that has timings 0-0-0-0 and 5000mhz

 

[FlailBoy]

It might be stable with the ram at 1600 mhz but many Deneb CPUs don't like it that fast unless you relax the timings even more than what the SPD XMP-1600 column shows. And when you relax timings you sacrifice some performance so it's somewhat offsetting. I would not bother with that as the performance gain is minimal to none anyway above 1333 mhz with that family of CPUs.

??

Opinions seem to differ on that. Could you clarify? And do you have your memory running at 1600?

 

[adil95]

Most ram is shown when bought with the first four timings listed as outlined below. CPUz normally shows the first four timings in order down the page and adds one more which is tREF and has the CMD rate listed lastly most of the time.

The operations that these numbers indicate are the following: CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-CMD. To understand them, bear in mind that the memory is internally organized as a matrix, where the data are stored at the intersection of the lines and columns.

For instance 8, 8, 8, 24, 2T >> CL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS-CMD.

CL: CAS Latency. The time it takes between a command having been sent to the memory and when it begins to reply to it. It is the time it takes between the processor asking for some data from the memory and then returning it.

tRCD: RAS to CAS Delay. The time it takes between the activation of the line (RAS) and the column (CAS) where the data are stored in the matrix.

tRP: RAS Precharge. The time it takes between disabling the access to a line of data and the beginning of the access to another line of data.

tRAS: Active to Precharge Delay. How long the memory has to wait until the next access to the memory can be initiated.

CMD: Command Rate. The time it takes between the memory chip having been activated and when the first command may be sent to the memory. Sometimes this value is not announced. It usually is T1 (1 clock cycle) or T2
(2 clock cycles).

so right now my timings according to cpu-z should be 9-9-9-24-33-1T, but the DRAM frequency is only 669Mhz according to the cp-z memory tab. Shouldn't it be higher? Also I agree since the improvement will be minimal i won't mess with the timings.

 

[swampdonkey]

so right now my timings according to cpu-z should be 9-9-9-24-33-1T, but the DRAM frequency is only 669Mhz according to the cp-z memory tab. Shouldn't it be higher? Also I agree since the improvement will be minimal i won't mess with the timings.

no that clock speed is fine. multiply that by 2 and you get your actual speed.

 

[adil95]

no that clock speed is fine. multiply that by 2 and you get your actual speed.

ah, that makes sense, thanks!

 

[trents]

??

Opinions seem to differ on that. Could you clarify? And do you have your memory running at 1600?

Yes, opinions do differ on that. But I'm not sure what you wish clarification on from what I said. I said a couple things in that post. I ran Cinebench with a PII 955 on an AM2+ board with the 4 gigs of DDR2 ram running at 900 mhz and a CL of 5 and CR of 2T. The 955 was overclocked to 4.05 ghz. Then I changed that same CPU over to an AM3+ board running DDR3 at 1333 mhz and CL 8/CR 2T with the CPU at 4.09 ghz. Cinebench scores were better with the DDR2 ram running at a considerable lower frequency but also significantly lower latency. Depending on he application, low latency can trump high frequency. Benchmarks have shown that very few apps benefit much at all from frequencies above 1333 mhz until you get into the FX CPUs. The extra bandwidth just isn't needed except for a few apps like Physic.

 

[FlailBoy]

Yes, opinions do differ on that. But I'm not sure what you wish clarification on from what I said. I said a couple things in that post. I ran Cinebench with a PII 955 on an AM2+ board with the 4 gigs of DDR2 ram running at 900 mhz and a CL of 5 and CR of 2T. The 955 was overclocked to 4.05 ghz. Then I changed that same CPU over to an AM3+ board running DDR3 at 1333 mhz and CL 8/CR 2T with the CPU at 4.09 ghz. Cinebench scores were better with the DDR2 ram running at a considerable lower frequency but also significantly lower latency. Depending on the application, low latency can trump high frequency. Benchmarks have shown that very few apps benefit much at all from frequencies above 1333 mhz until you get into the FX CPUs. The extra bandwidth just isn't needed except for a few apps like Physic.

Actually, that's exactly what I was asking. Thanks.

 

[tikithorsen]

Personally, I gained memory performance by taking my CPU-NB to 2800MHz when setting the RAM to 1600MHz instead of 1333MHz.
The only downside of OC'ing the CPU-NB is the increased heat.

 

[trents]

Overclocking the CPUNB shouldn't add much heat unless you really turn up the CPUNB voltage high which shouldn't be necessary for 2800 mhz.