FEATURED AMD Seems to Effectively Give Up (For High-End CPUs)

[LZ_Xray]

I actually believe AMD is playing their cards right and playing to their strengths. This does kind of hinge on what I believe to be the high end market, into which things like the 8150 and 2600k do not fit. To me 39XX, 990X etc are high end pieces. Along with some others above, I don't believe AMD has been in the high end market for years so this is nothing new.

"The Future is Fusion" - I happen to agree with that statement from a marketing standpoint. I think five years from now many mainstream machines will no longer have or need a discreet video card, and if the average user buys a mainstream machine and then decides they want to play Battlefield 4, they will "add" a video card rather than upgrading an existing one. It'll be like 1995 again, which doesn't scare me since those were pretty fun days computer enthusiast-wise.

I think things like this irk people like us because we're enthusiasts, and we want to see really cool high-tech MasterBlaster pieces even if we don't buy them. The problem with being a high-end enthusiast in anything is that you're basically at the whim of manufacturers in both production and pricing. The only way a manufacturer can make money from enthusiasts is by high pricing, since the volume demand is not there for the products enthusiasts buy. The mainstream keeps them in business.

If you look at what most of us enthusiasts do though, it's not even dealing with enthusiast gear. It's wringing the crap out of mainstream gear. How many of us have a 990x or 3900 series? Not many. So I don't personally have a problem with AMD staying out of that space like they have been and Intel charging $1000+ for those pieces. It's natural to the game. I don't know about you guys, but I spend a heck of a lot less than I used to to do what I do. Being an enthusiast is relatively much cheaper now than it was 15 years ago.

Just like AMD vs Nvidia in the GPU space, I think AMD vs Intel in the CPU space will remain more or less the same going forward, at least in the near future. AMD I believe has figured out that they don't ever have to "beat" Intel, they just have to be a reasonable price-based alternative. The company it looks like they're actually trying to "beat" is Nvidia, and they're doing a bang up job of it. Not saying they have beat them, but they're definitely equaling them.

 

[Frakk]

I actually believe AMD is playing their cards right and playing to their strengths. This does kind of hinge on what I believe to be the high end market, into which things like the 8150 and 2600k do not fit. To me 39XX, 990X etc are high end pieces. Along with some others above, I don't believe AMD has been in the high end market for years so this is nothing new.

"The Future is Fusion" - I happen to agree with that statement from a marketing standpoint. I think five years from now many mainstream machines will no longer have or need a discreet video card, and if the average user buys a mainstream machine and then decides they want to play Battlefield 4, they will "add" a video card rather than upgrading an existing one. It'll be like 1995 again, which doesn't scare me since those were pretty fun days computer enthusiast-wise.

I think things like this irk people like us because we're enthusiasts, and we want to see really cool high-tech MasterBlaster pieces even if we don't buy them. The problem with being a high-end enthusiast in anything is that you're basically at the whim of manufacturers in both production and pricing. The only way a manufacturer can make money from enthusiasts is by high pricing, since the volume demand is not there for the products enthusiasts buy. The mainstream keeps them in business.

If you look at what most of us enthusiasts do though, it's not even dealing with enthusiast gear. It's wringing the crap out of mainstream gear. How many of us have a 990x or 3900 series? Not many. So I don't personally have a problem with AMD staying out of that space like they have been and Intel charging $1000+ for those pieces. It's natural to the game. I don't know about you guys, but I spend a heck of a lot less than I used to to do what I do. Being an enthusiast is relatively much cheaper now than it was 15 years ago.

Just like AMD vs Nvidia in the GPU space, I think AMD vs Intel in the CPU space will remain more or less the same going forward, at least in the near future. AMD I believe has figured out that they don't ever have to "beat" Intel, they just have to be a reasonable price-based alternative. The company it looks like they're actually trying to "beat" is Nvidia, and they're doing a bang up job of it. Not saying they have beat them, but they're definitely equaling them.

I agree with everything you say here, you put it what i'm thinking into text better then i could

 

[trents]

Actually, LZ_Xray makes a lot of sense here.

 

[Neuromancer]

Excellent post LZ_Xray!

that defines my experience with computer HW. Enthusiast is not about buying the best most expenisve thing out there. It is about getting the most of what you have. Hence spending a little more for a good board with solid power circuitry and more BIOS options and a unlocked CPU.

But not spending 2-3 times as much for similar or slightly better performance out of the box.

 

[hokiealumnus]

+1, great post LZ_Xray!

 

[Apht3rThawt]

Games are designed for consoles and ported to PCs, less reliance on high end graphics. APUs are the future. Researchers are working on GPUs supporting CPUs in APUs. There! Like GPUs working on FAH. APUs will get better and faster and the GPU in the APU will take on more and more processing load. Tower type PCs for gaming and OCing will disappear and we will be left with HTPCs and ultrabooks and such; even these will be history eventually. Small is the future and it ain't big gaming/ocing rigs. Intel has no more future in big cpus than AMD does. When friends and family ask me for help on a PC problem I cringe. I've been riding microsoft's coat-tail for many years. Why do we still have malware and driver problems and software incompatibilities; it's gone on long enough, dinosaurs all. I've always liked AMD and have used their products for many years; also have Intel systems running, I swing both ways. But my choice is usually AMD first for the gaming/ocing fun and to support the small guy. But, there is a limit and there is evolution. AMD is right to get out of high-end CPU design, there is no future in it. And the rest of us should be looking at our systems with nostagia, PCs are not the future.

 

[Dabandit1]

Im thinking the same as the last poster,AMD is focussing on the future and tower pc's are going the way of the dodo. Tablet driven tv's and htpc's are what the ipod generation want....kids dont even game on pc's anymore

 

[I.M.O.G.]

Im thinking the same as the last poster,AMD is focussing on the future and tower pc's are going the way of the dodo. Tablet driven tv's and htpc's are what the ipod generation want....kids dont even game on pc's anymore

I look around and often think the same. But then there are many sites in our niche now, and many of them bigger now than we even were ten years ago when desktop PCs were banging on all cylinders. Back then too, many manufacturers discouraged overclocking and didn't want to associate themselves - now many of the manufacturers use it as a core part of their marketing, promoting it strongly. Heck, Intel even covers it with their special warranty now.

I also second guess that thought every time I walk into a Microcenter - they are always busy, and often times you have to wait to talk to someone in BYOS to grab a part for you from the back. It amazes me how busy they are, in a time where everyone wants portability. Every store of theirs has a considerable component selection however, and it doesn't seem like its getting smaller over the years.

While more people are getting on the tech bandwagon, and fewer people are buying desktops from dells/HP, it seems the DIY crowd is bigger than ever depending on where you look.

 

[trekky]

i agree with IMOG PCs are doing better then ever even with Ipods and stuff, a Ipod cant get even close to a PCs power. back in the day with the 200mhz CPUs and we told them that we have 4000Mhz computer they would ask what we would use the 3800mhz for because they thought 200Mhz were fast but not you cant even surf the web with 1000Mhz and technology will continue to grow with PCs by its side

PCs are forever. till we get brain chips then srry PCs

and im sad about AMD

 

[Apht3rThawt]

There are always hardcore DIYers. But, can we keep a market going? Most people I know buy laptops, not even full sized PCs. They have PS3s and XBoxes, IPads and Transformers. IMOG said he sees that Microcenter is busy, but when you see Newegg not keeping stock of Phenom 1100 or even 1090's then you know there is a problem. Any news videographer knows that he can turn 10 people into a crowd. That seems to be what we are seeing. IMOG said that the websites for DIYers and OCers are growing; maybe a last gasp to hold on to something that we have been a part of for years. Noobs even want to be a part of something that is becoming history. People build classic cars but they are nostalgic, not what most buy. I'm an old guy; been in the business since the 8088 days and hate to see what I think is happening. >90% of computer store business is malware/viruses, not building machines for people like we used to.

I hope I'm wrong and I get to build new machines till I die, that would be good. Long live the PC!

Here is one view: http://techland.time.com/2012/02/09/why-we-need-a-new-definition-of-pc/

 

[Frakk]

I agree the PC is not as popular as it once was, and yes some games are designed for GC and then ported to PC but that is not a universal picture, Driving games have always been that way and FPS games have always been PC.

That is still the way of it now, BF3 was definitely designed for PC, there are things, and even map objects in the PC version that are completely missing from console versions, the graphics are also very much better on PC and the maps are larger too....

Plus if you look on BF3's battle log it shows how many are online at that time and from which platform, Xbox is usually around 150K, PS3 around 120K, and PC usually around 90K, so it ain't dead yet.

there are enough gamers out there who know gaming is better on PC and stick with it for that reason. developers producing games very much for PC and then porting to GC.

As for GC they use PC components, the Xbox 360 for example has a Radeon GPU and an Athlon x3 3.2Ghz CPU.

There is talk of the next gen using a Radeon 6670.

GC's exist because of PC hardware development, without it they will be no more.

Its in developers interests to keep the PC gaming market alive as without that and the development it brings the GC market is also dead.

 

[Bobnova]

Personally, I think there are probably more desktop PCs in use now than there were ten years ago.
Certainly more desktop+notebook PCs than ever before.
Most people that have a tablet also have a PC.
Same for a console, they almost all have PCs as well.

 

[mjw21a]

Yeah, I prefer a gamepad for racing games, keyboard and mouse for FPS. Then there's games like Civilization, OpenTTD etc where obviously a keyboard and mouse is the only way to go.....

 

[Frakk]

Personally, I think there are probably more desktop PCs in use now than there were ten years ago.
Certainly more desktop+notebook PCs than ever before.
Most people that have a tablet also have a PC.
Same for a console, they almost all have PCs as well.

I think there is some truth in that, and @ £600 / £700 for one like mine most people simply cant afford gamer rigs, a £150 Xbox 360 is a good substitute and the household PC need not be more then an Internet browser.

 

[erob]

Maybe AMD knows something about the FX and APU chips that they cant let out. All processors evolved from a mistake in the transistors or pathways. the apu is a hole new animal, if they found one of these mistakes who knows where it will take them. As far as big desktops and oc rigs dieing out, i dont think it will. their are still ppl who make sail boats out of wood, takes the 5X the money to do it. If amd knows how important this hobby is to us and how many US their is they will find a way to make the products we want at the prices we can afford.

 

[mjw21a]

I think there is some truth in that, and @ £600 / £700 for one like mine most people simply cant afford gamer rigs, a £150 Xbox 360 is a good substitute and the household PC need not be more then an Internet browser.

Thats what my gaming (signature) rig is most of the time, as truth be told I don't seem to actually play games that much. Can't use it for downloading as its in my room and the noise keeps me awake..... Thats ok, my HTPC downstairs does all the downloads

 

[Frakk]

BD is a successful gaming chip, it cuts it at the top with the 2600K in modern games, and lets not forget they are going ahead with PD, after that who knows but i don't see this as AMD pulling out of the (mainstream market) just the $600+ plus and who cares about that?

 

[Apht3rThawt]

Personally, I think there are probably more desktop PCs in use now than there were ten years ago.
Certainly more desktop+notebook PCs than ever before.
Most people that have a tablet also have a PC.
Same for a console, they almost all have PCs as well.

Well, I don't know where they are getting them; all PC makers claim less sales the last couple of years. Unless you include laptop/notebook/netbooks as well. Towers look out of place on desks these days. Ten years is a long time in consumer land. People I know have laptops and consoles, maybe old full sized PCs they are looking to get rid of. What I see is laptop with widescreen monitor for docking/casual gaming.

I love my mid-tower with 7 fans, huge heatsink, multiple 1TB HDDs, 8 gigs of highspeed DDR3, 750 watts of amped up goodness, open case. Like looking at/listening to a 426 blown hemi. Visitors just gape. They ask if I built it myself, "Yes" I say with pride, but that is the end of the conversation. Does it do my taxes, they are thinking, what else is in his closet, they ask themselves, are my children safe? Almost like having a chopped MC in the driveway, cool, but they don't need one. Then they ask if I can help them because their PC is slow. Malware, I think. "Yes I can help" I say.

Seriously, I hope the PC has a future but in my heart I know that it is only a matter of time. Microsoft is going the way of the tablet, Apple is the number 1 PC seller if you count tablets/pads. Help, I'm a T-rex...

 

[erob]

I have never cared about the $600 chips. i like making the best system that my finances allow. the build i am about to start will be the most expensive system i have built. i have been building systems since the Intel 166mhz with mmx was new. lost all respect for Intel during the celeron p2 time.

 

[mjw21a]

Time will tell, tablets, smartphones etc are all consumer devices and I believe still in a separate catagory. Computers will not die, time will tell as to what exactly happens.