Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 Load line calibration and APM

[DarthGrantius]

Hi all,

Long time lurker, this is my first post, as you can see

I recently put together a new build, consisting of an AMD FX-8120, an Asus M5A78L and other bits and pieces, and I'm having a little trouble.

I asked some questions on the Asus forums:

Hi all, Questions: 1. The load line calibration option is a little bit confusing - the auto mode is set to 48% but I cannot for the life of me tell if 100% means highest setting or if 0% is. Any ideas? 2. I have very good cooling on the VRM's so I don't get the throttle down to 7x multiplier on my FX CPU, but I still get the throttle to 14x when under load. I cannot see a way to disable APM for the CPU on this Mobo's bios (Have tried the release from last week, still the same). I have found a work around using AOD to disable turbo core but that is tedious - any chance to get this option added to the BIOS? And 3, as much as I change the voltage for my CPU in the bios the voltage is still coming up as 1.3375 in CPU-Z - Can anyone else reproduce this? Thanks for your time.

(I fixed the APM throttling with AMDmsrTweaker as there is no APM option in the bios)


Basically the only response I got was "setting LLC to low will show differences in CPU-Z" - not helpful as I can't see voltages correctly in any software.

Can anyone here help me? I have the voltage set at the moment to 1.325 in the bios but its showing in all software (HWmonitor, CPU-Z etc) as 1.3375 no matter what I set - however if I change voltages using AMD Overdrive they show up correctly.

Question 2: Load line on these boards is weird, my previous motherboard gave me the options of Off, Low, Medium, High and extreme. This one on Auto is set to 48%, but setting it to either 0% or 100% gives me a massive boost in temperatures and dropped cores during p95 - does anyone that owns this or similar boards explain to me whats going on with it?

Thanks

 

[RGone]

I am going to guess that you may n0t find anyone using that mobo and if wise they would not be with an FX processor.

I g00gled the Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 looking for reviews and come up with pretty much nothing. A few users with issues and a few ebuyer type blurbs but no real full-on review that I could find. I did come across a few asking about the model just below that and asking about reviews and it was voiced pretty well that there were none for that board either. So review sites are likely jumping over the low-level boards. Or there was just not a lot of interest shown toward that board.

This can be a little bump to make the thread show again as something was just posted in it. Good lucik man.

 

[DarthGrantius]

I am going to guess that you may n0t find anyone using that mobo and if wise they would not be with an FX processor.

I g00gled the Asus M5A78L-M/USB3 looking for reviews and come up with pretty much nothing. A few users with issues and a few ebuyer type blurbs but no real full-on review that I could find. I did come across a few asking about the model just below that and asking about reviews and it was voiced pretty well that there were none for that board either. So review sites are likely jumping over the low-level boards. Or there was just not a lot of interest shown toward that board.

This can be a little bump to make the thread show again as something was just posted in it. Good lucik man.

Thank you for your response - I did a ton of googling about this board but as you say it isn't very popular - I bought it as it was the best mATX board for my price range.

I'll keep on my quest, thank you

 

[Buddywh]

I have an M5A88-M, a somewhat similar mATX board. At least it looks very similar in the pictures, I think the big difference is yours doesn't have 6gbs SATA and a different SB chip.

Any way: i think you're mistaken about VRM cooling; it has none. No heatsinks on those puppies based on the pic's I see. You need to get some and glue them on the mosfets if you're trying to OC on it; maybe even set up a fan to blow across them.

I am running my FX4100 at 4.5g on my M5a88 and after about 5 or 6 min's on Prime95 with small FFT's the VRM's overheat and it throttles back the processor. It lasts just a few seconds and then starts back in for 5 or 6 min's more.

Serious overclocking of an 8 core processor on a 4+1 VRM board is never well advised, even an Asus.

LLC sounds different on your board from mine: I have either enable, disable or auto. With disable the voltage is about right when processor is at full speed but unloaded. When I put a big load on it the voltage sags badly and then get core errors in Prime95. To keep it stable I have to put a huge over-volt on it and then it will sag to a stable voltage under load.

With LLC enabled I have a small overvolt unloaded and then the voltage actually INCREASES when it loads up. If I didn't compensate voltage settings in BIOS accordingly it would way overheat at load. Auto setting is kind of in between but less predictable. I like the enabled setting because it's rare in real-world useage the processor ever loads up so this way its life is spent in reasonably low voltage levels.

So the trick is to watch how voltage readings change with no load and full load in each of the options of LLC and try to figure out how it's functioning. I used OCCT to do it... you can watch a plot of voltage and cpu load over time.

By the way... here's a terrific article about VRM's design, capability and limitations.
http://www.overclock.net/t/943109/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-125w-tdp-processors

By the way: The best mATX boards I've seen for the FX has an AMD880 chipset (like my M5a88-m) but I've seen none with the chipset designed for the FX, the AMD990 or better. I think that's cause AMD has re-imagined the mATX form factor as a home for their Fusion processors: APU's that fit FM1 or FM2 (for trinity) sockets.

 

[DarthGrantius]

I have an M5A88-M, a somewhat similar mATX board. At least it looks very similar in the pictures, I think the big difference is yours doesn't have 6gbs SATA and a different SB chip.

Any way: i think you're mistaken about VRM cooling; it has none. No heatsinks on those puppies based on the pic's I see. You need to get some and glue them on the mosfets if you're trying to OC on it; maybe even set up a fan to blow across them.

I am running my FX4100 at 4.5g on my M5a88 and after about 5 or 6 min's on Prime95 with small FFT's the VRM's overheat and it throttles back the processor. It lasts just a few seconds and then starts back in for 5 or 6 min's more.

Serious overclocking of an 8 core processor on a 4+1 VRM board is never well advised, even an Asus.

LLC sounds different on your board from mine: I have either enable, disable or auto. With disable the voltage is about right when processor is at full speed but unloaded. When I put a big load on it the voltage sags badly and then get core errors in Prime95. To keep it stable I have to put a huge over-volt on it and then it will sag to a stable voltage under load.

With LLC enabled I have a small overvolt unloaded and then the voltage actually INCREASES when it loads up. If I didn't compensate voltage settings in BIOS accordingly it would way overheat at load. Auto setting is kind of in between but less predictable. I like the enabled setting because it's rare in real-world useage the processor ever loads up so this way its life is spent in reasonably low voltage levels.

So the trick is to watch how voltage readings change with no load and full load in each of the options of LLC and try to figure out how it's functioning. I used OCCT to do it... you can watch a plot of voltage and cpu load over time.

By the way... here's a terrific article about VRM's design, capability and limitations.
http://www.overclock.net/t/943109/about-vrms-mosfets-motherboard-safety-with-125w-tdp-processors

By the way: The best mATX boards I've seen for the FX has an AMD880 chipset (like my M5a88-m) but I've seen none with the chipset designed for the FX, the AMD990 or better. I think that's cause AMD has re-imagined the mATX form factor as a home for their Fusion processors: APU's that fit FM1 or FM2 (for trinity) sockets.

Hi Buddy,

Thank you so much for your response, its very good to know what the differences between the differing motherboard models are - even in the same company. I was originally going to go with an APU but these chips were heavy discounted so I got the 8120

Re: VRM cooling, I've been using a fan sitting about 1cm above the VRM's to cool them down, and only see that throttling at higher voltages or clocks (currently at 3.9ghz).

The LLC you describe sound exactly the same as mine - at least that clears this up!

Again, many thanks

 

[sumonpathak]

0 generally means no LLC...and 100 means ultra high/extreme..hope that helps...the mileage vary board to board. so its kinda hard to say how much volts will be pumped at what scenario..
hope this helps..
also...change out the motherboard

 

[Buddywh]

...I was originally going to go with an APU but these chips were heavy discounted so I got the 8120 ...

I'm all about value too... and a nice compact powerhouse of a computer that's still quiet and reliable.

It's great you got the fan on the VRM section... and if you haven't yet you should also put some heatsinks on the mosfets. Even with all that I can't imagine a 4+1 handling an 8 core without going into thermal protect every now and then. I use heatsinks but the coils will burn my fingers if I touch them. That's a lot of current flowing through them to get 'em that hot and all I've got is a 4 core.

Still: I have to think that unless you're building this to run Prime95, folding or some other distributed computing project 24/7 it'll be fine in regular use. An 8120 overclocked will almost always be waiting on a single video card and you obviously aren't going to run an SLI setup in that rig so gaming shouldn't tax the processor very hard for long periods. Even paired with a single top-end graphics card--which would be very expensive so not likely if you're doing budget like me --it should be fine. I do have to note this is not based on my experience, but based on comments from (reasonable) people using FX processors in gaming rigs.

So my suggestion would be find a stable overclock at reasonable voltage & temp and ignore that it goes into thermal protect when pushed hard, which should be very rare, if ever, in normal use-age. Asus makes a great product... gotta love their robust VRM section design!

 

[DarthGrantius]

I'm all about value too... and a nice compact powerhouse of a computer that's still quiet and reliable.

It's great you got the fan on the VRM section... and if you haven't yet you should also put some heatsinks on the mosfets. Even with all that I can't imagine a 4+1 handling an 8 core without going into thermal protect every now and then. I use heatsinks but the coils will burn my fingers if I touch them. That's a lot of current flowing through them to get 'em that hot and all I've got is a 4 core.

Still: I have to think that unless you're building this to run Prime95, folding or some other distributed computing project 24/7 it'll be fine in regular use. An 8120 overclocked will almost always be waiting on a single video card and you obviously aren't going to run an SLI setup in that rig so gaming shouldn't tax the processor very hard for long periods. Even paired with a single top-end graphics card--which would be very expensive so not likely if you're doing budget like me --it should be fine. I do have to note this is not based on my experience, but based on comments from (reasonable) people using FX processors in gaming rigs.

So my suggestion would be find a stable overclock at reasonable voltage & temp and ignore that it goes into thermal protect when pushed hard, which should be very rare, if ever, in normal use-age. Asus makes a great product... gotta love their robust VRM section design!

Reading the comments of some of the trolls who say this CPU is crap for gaming really have no idea - all the benchmarks they quote are at 1024x640 or something, and comparing 140fps to 150fps which don't relate to real world gaming with premium CPU's.

I got the CPU for close to 50% cheaper then an i5 2500k, so am more then happy.

You wouldn't know anyone who ships those tiny mosfet heatsinks to NZ for a reasonable price? We don't have any local sellers and I wish QuietPC (who I buy most of my stuff through) stocked them.

My HD7750 at 1ghz and memory at 1465mhz seems to handle most new games on max no worries, even with AA set fairly high.

For such a cheap build I'm more then happy, except for a few little issues like my voltage problem.

 

[RGone]

Cooler Master SAC-P01, BGA MOSFET Chipset Cooler At Ascent.Co NZ

 

[DarthGrantius]

Cooler Master SAC-P01, BGA MOSFET Chipset Cooler At Ascent.Co NZ

Those are slightly too big for my purpose - its fine anyway since my fan means I never get throttling issues.

Thanks for you help

 

[Buddywh]

Those are slightly too big for my purpose - its fine anyway since my fan means I never get throttling issues.

Thanks for you help

I used something similar to these in my M5a88 VRM section:

http://www.ascent.co.nz/productspecification.aspx?ItemID=403877

I imagine because the thermistor is being cooled is why it's not throttling. But that alone doesn't help the mosfet's and drivers that are being heavily stressed by the current delivered through them. Putting sinks on them helps deliver longer life in an over-clocked application.

 

[ninjagordy]

Hi mate, not sure if you worked this out yet but i had the same board with an FX8120 and i got mines to 4ghz and decided it was crap! ( the FX 8120 that is ) so... i sold it and went back to a phenom II 965 c3 . i am still trying to work it out for stability at decent volts but i have found that setting the LLC to 100% creates the biggest volt drop on this board. IF YOU PUT IT TO 0% it will overvolt the chip at idle slightly as you said but will overvolt it quite a bit under load. i have mines at 1.4825v and it sits at 1.5v in cpu-z nd occt , when i set the llc to around the 10% mark it does not budge under load. now im still trying to work it out because with it at auto i have to set my cpu to 1.55 vcore and it drops to around 1.5 under load but ideally i want it to sit at 1.5 or less and be stable. its very close but im still tweaking...

ill keep you posted . msr tweaker worked 100% for me for throttling with the FX also btw and i have added cooling to the phases and had the 8120 mildly clocked to 4.2ghz

cheers!!

Gordy!

 

[DarthGrantius]

Hi mate, not sure if you worked this out yet but i had the same board with an FX8120 and i got mines to 4ghz and decided it was crap! ( the FX 8120 that is ) so... i sold it and went back to a phenom II 965 c3 . i am still trying to work it out for stability at decent volts but i have found that setting the LLC to 100% creates the biggest volt drop on this board. IF YOU PUT IT TO 0% it will overvolt the chip at idle slightly as you said but will overvolt it quite a bit under load. i have mines at 1.4825v and it sits at 1.5v in cpu-z nd occt , when i set the llc to around the 10% mark it does not budge under load. now im still trying to work it out because with it at auto i have to set my cpu to 1.55 vcore and it drops to around 1.5 under load but ideally i want it to sit at 1.5 or less and be stable. its very close but im still tweaking...

ill keep you posted . msr tweaker worked 100% for me for throttling with the FX also btw and i have added cooling to the phases and had the 8120 mildly clocked to 4.2ghz

cheers!!

Gordy!

Thanks Gordy, I'll keep that in mind.

1.5v is pretty damn high - are you sure you're getting comfortable temps at that voltage?

 

[ninjagordy]

hi mate, yes i would like it to be less but im running an antec kuhler 620 and its keeping the temps well below 50deg so its all good. ill keep playing and see what i can get to stable. thats me running 2600 mhz on the htt as well.

 

[ninjagordy]

quick update, swapped my board out today for a M5A97 Pro and im running @4GHZ 1.44 vcore stable with small data set on occt . i couldnt get stable at over 1.52 on the old board. just proves that decent phases and vrms make a serious difference. im going to burn it in over night and then push it a bit more tomorrow.

forgot to say, that was the first v-core i tried...so it may do 4ghz with less on this board.

 

[trents]

quick update, swapped my board out today for a M5A97 Pro and im running @4ghz 1.44 vcore stable with small data set on occt . i couldnt get stable at over 1.52 on the old board. just proves that decent phases and vrms make a serious difference. im going to burn it in over night and then push it a bit more tomorrow.

forgot to say, that was the first v-core i tried...so it may do 4ghz with less on this board.

Yep. It doesn't work well to build a skyscraper on top of a chicken coop foundation, does it?

 

[ninjagordy]

yep, i was only playin really and tbh that motherboard was a stop gap till i decided what i wanted to do chip wise. but anyhow....... happy now , 4ghz occt 18hrs stable with small data set at 1.462vcore max temp under load is 56deg so that will do fine.

and the 965be is a good bit faster gaming than the FX8120 was @ 4.2ghz. so im happy with this set up..........for now!