Athlon 64 2800 or Mobile 2500?

[MitchV]

if you had the budget for either, which system would perform the best for gaming. Assume that you can run the Mobile 2500 at 2.3Ghz and compare it to a stock 2800. Personally, I think I'd rather go with mobile setup because it would allow me to use it with an nForce2 MB, which enables me to pick up some sweet onboard sound.

Thoughts? Would the Athlon 64 2800 perform any better than an overclocked mobile barton?

 

[The Coolest]

I think that if you have the budget for an A64, go for it. Make sure its a NewCastle though, so you can OC the crap out of it

 

[Maxvla]

2.3ghz athlon xp will be the same as a stock a64 2800. oc the a64 and theres nothing the xp can do to keep up.

easy choice.

as far as 'sweet onboard sound' i personally did not find the soundstorm to be any better than any other onboard audio solution. if you want a better sound experience you need a sound card. right now we are lucky to have the Chaintech AV710, a 7.1 channel card with great abilities. this card is about $23 and is practically the same card as the M-Audio Revolution, $99.

 

[killerkid]

err quick question, im also thinking about going to a64 later here in the future, but currently im pretty happy with my system, im at 220x12, but can boot at 235x12, i figure with some better ram i may be able to get stable at those higher speeds, also i believe i just found out im stable at 220x12.5 heh yay lol. anyways onto my question what in the A64 world would be comparable to a 2.66ghz+ amd mobile 2500+ ??

 

[MitchV]

as far as 'sweet onboard sound' i personally did not find the soundstorm to be any better than any other onboard audio solution.

It encodes dolby digital.

 

[Maxvla]

It encodes dolby digital.

sort of. it uses ICE to encode a dolby digital stream which is not discreet afaik. any sound card can do simulated surround which is what this is just a little more accurate.

is having a simulated surround sound worth holding your rig back a generation? also, if you went with the athlon xp you would have no upgrade path.

 

[Maxvla]

err quick question, im also thinking about going to a64 later here in the future, but currently im pretty happy with my system, im at 220x12, but can boot at 235x12, i figure with some better ram i may be able to get stable at those higher speeds, also i believe i just found out im stable at 220x12.5 heh yay lol. anyways onto my question what in the A64 world would be comparable to a 2.66ghz+ amd mobile 2500+ ??

a stock 3200 clawhammer 2ghz or 3200 newcastle 2200mhz would be equivalent to your 2.66ghz athlon xp.

 

[MitchV]

err quick question, im also thinking about going to a64 later here in the future, but currently im pretty happy with my system, im at 220x12, but can boot at 235x12, i figure with some better ram i may be able to get stable at those higher speeds, also i believe i just found out im stable at 220x12.5 heh yay lol. anyways onto my question what in the A64 world would be comparable to a 2.66ghz+ amd mobile 2500+ ??

The reason I'm not moving to an Athlon 64 right now is due to the amount I'd have to pay to get a considerable performance boost. To get something noticably faster, I think you'd have to get an Athlon 64 3200 or so (I say this because I've compared my Mobile 2500 to my buddies Athlon 64 3400). Sure, you might be able to get a cheaper Athlon 64 CPU that outbenches your Mobile running at 2.4Ghz, but would it be noticable during everyday use? I don't think the gain you get would be worth the money you'd have to pay.

That being said, if you have one of the latest video cards, an Athlon 64 would unleash the video card's potential. Maybe in that scenario, you might find the upgrade worthwhile.

Basically, if I'm going to drop $200 bucks to upgrade my PC, I expect to get something more in return than some increased benchmarks. I want to boot up my machine and think "D@mn, that was fast!" or run my everyday apps faster than they ever ran in the past.

I think you're going to have to drop some bucks to upgrade to an Athlon 64 and be able to feel the difference.

My 2 cents.

 

[killerkid]

i agree, i dont think im going to upgrade to an a64 system currently, im going to get a 6800gt on the 10th for 399.99 with a free copy of far cry heh .

 

[MitchV]

sort of. it uses ICE to encode a dolby digital stream which is not discreet afaik. any sound card can do simulated surround which is what this is just a little more accurate.

is having a simulated surround sound worth holding your rig back a generation? also, if you went with the athlon xp you would have no upgrade path.

Soundstorm is basically FREE with a darn good chipset. It works really well for myself and a lot of other folks. Why PAY for a soundcard that isn't any better? I hope I never have to install creative drivers on my machines again.

As for holding back a generation... the 754 socket isn't going anywhere fast, so I don't think I'm missing out on anything. I think the best is yet to come for the Athlon 64 CPUs. Check out this article: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17058

Soundstorm 2 on a 939 MB? Prices will drop on the Athlon 64 CPUs by the time it's released, I'd have the potential to run two nVidia gForce 6 cards.

That sounds like a worthy generation jump.

 

[Maxvla]

Soundstorm is basically FREE with a darn good chipset. It works really well for myself and a lot of other folks. Why PAY for a soundcard that isn't any better? I hope I never have to install creative drivers on my machines again.

As for holding back a generation... the 754 socket isn't going anywhere fast, so I don't think I'm missing out on anything. I think the best is yet to come for the Athlon 64 CPUs. Check out this article: http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17058

Soundstorm 2 on a 939 MB? Prices will drop on the Athlon 64 CPUs by the time it's released, I'd have the potential to run two nVidia gForce 6 cards.

That sounds like a worthy generation jump.

i agree that its nice to have onboard sound in case you don't want to get a sound card, but don't kid yourself about it being free. the cost of the audio chip is certainly reflected in the final sale price. as for being better, any of the via envy24 chipset soundcards are better than the soundstorm. at 23 dollars this chaintech card is practically free as well considering a near identical (and exactly identical in digital mode) m-audio card is 4 times the price. how would you like to get a 6800 ultra or x800xt for $138 dollars? (based on $550)

754 is still prevalent and will continue to be for a while. people here are saying 939 is becoming the mainstream cpu. i guess every person here will be buying a 350 dollar cpu instead of their 100 dollar mobiles or 150 dollar a64s. i'm sorry but paying 350 for a cpu is definately not mainstream. the sweetspot for consumers is 100-200 not 350. amd just did its price cuts so we won't be seeing lower than 350 for several months.

the biggest benefit i have experienced going from athlon xp to a64 while having several p4 rigs is that multitasking and overall system quickness is so far better than amdxp i really wonder why anyone is buying athlon xp anymore, besides for a low cost rig, which the mobile xp's certainly are not. it has been my experience that amdxp is the slowest of the 3 in overall performance, multitasking, and system quickness. my a64 rig was quicker even than my p4 in windows which i felt to be a perfect balance of performance and quickness. the p4 still wins out on multitasking but the gap from p4 to a64 is nearly nothing compared to a huge contrast from p4 to amd xp.

you may not be familiar with my rig history and only see my current intel chips in my sig, so i'll briefly give my roster so you can see i do have quite a bit of experience with all the current platforms.

p4 1.6a @ 2666

p4 2.4b @ 3666, p4 2.4b @ 3066

amdxp 2100 @ 2540, amdxp 1800 @ 2200, amdxp 1800 @ 2150, amdxp 1600 @ 1800

a64 3000+ @ 2350, a64 3200+ @ 2510

p4 3.0c @ 3900, p4 3.0c @ 3750, p4 3.0c @ 3750, p4 3.0c @ 3650

i have had all of these within the last 2 years, many of them at the same time so i could compare side by side. i have also just ordered a new A64 3200+ rig for my 3dmark rig.

as for nforce4 it looks to be a great step up but its going to be 5 months at the earliest before those roll out.

 

[MitchV]

i agree that its nice to have onboard sound in case you don't want to get a sound card, but don't kid yourself about it being free. the cost of the audio chip is certainly reflected in the final sale price.

You are right, maybe I should not have described it as free, but my point is that the cost is negligable. I don't ever recall reading a post where somebody said "My PC sound is important to me, but I think I'll save money buy purchasing a soundcard and a cheap nForce2 board, instead of buying an nForce2 board with soundstorm." In fact, I think the contrary is true and I've read petitions and complaints that the feature is not built into the most recent athlon 64 chipsets.

It's very nice sound and the price is right. I can't comment on the audio hardware you've mentioned, but I can tell you that my nForce2 onboard hardware sounds better to me than any of the creative cards or other onboard sound I've used in the past. It's worked flawlessly and sounstorm may be my favorite nForce2 feature.

the sweetspot for consumers is 100-200 not 350.

It's nice to have options and the $100-$200 is much more palatable for me.

i really wonder why anyone is buying athlon xp anymore, besides for a low cost rig, which the mobile xp's certainly are not.

Well, I think that's the compelling reason right there... they're cheap! You get a nice sub $100 motherboard and an $80-$90 processor, and you run the processer with standard air-cooling as fast as CPU's priced in the $200 range. For $170 or so, you've got the foundation for a very solid machine.

I'd say it's reasonable to expect a Mobile 2500 to run at 2.3Ghz. You said yourself that an Athlon 64 3200 would provide a noticable difference when compared to a Mobile barton @ 2.3Ghz. So lets say you stuck with an Athlon 64 3000... you're going to shell out $160 - $170 alone for the CPU. Add a 754 MB at $80 and you are paying approximately 30% more for comparable performance to an OC'd Mobile 2500.

The other factor that makes this path attractive is that people have been upgrading and reusing their XP parts for some time now. Heck, I have a spare KT400 and an old Pally XP CPU that I'm not even using... I have parts everywhere. The Athlon upgrade path has helped me piece together many machines and allowed me to reuse parts.


I'm not suggesting that the athlon XP's are faster than the athlon 64's or better than the Intel CPUs at multi-tasking or media encoding. I'm just saying that you can get a very nice platform with the nForce2 MB's and the price/performance ratio is about the best on the market at the moment.

as for nforce4 it looks to be a great step up but its going to be 5 months at the earliest before those roll out.

Hopefully it'll be worth the wait. I'm looking forward to building an Athlon 64 rig one day. I expect we'll see some price drops by the time the NF4 makes it's way to market.

 

[c627627]

I respectfully disagree with maxvla as old nForce2 + or S versions had sound that was so good, it did not require external sound cards, unless you had special connector needs, etc. Members repeatedly posted about nForce2 sound beating Audigy cards and the like...

Anyway, nForce3 does not have it, nForce4 will in the future, but some VIA mobos may have superior sound chips onboard now, check out this old thread when the news broke:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=286461

 

[Maxvla]

well its great we have this forum where we can share differing opinions.

when i had my big amdxp experiment that yielded my amdxp 2100 @ 2540 i was using an epox 8rda+ with soundstorm. i used it for a couple days as my main rig, but after a time i couldn't stand the soundstorm any longer and installed my audigy 1 (my best card at the time) and it was instantly better. no more static, no more odd sounds. it sounded just like any other onboard sound i've used. when i moved the mouse i got odd static, if i turned the volume up it was awful. and the microphone was completely useless it was so staticy.

perhaps i got a faulty board, but all 3 of them (2 8rda+, 1 NF7-S 2.0) sounded the same.

 

[doc6886]

p4 1.6a @ 2666

p4 2.4b @ 3666, p4 2.4b @ 3066

amdxp 2100 @ 2540, amdxp 1800 @ 2200, amdxp 1800 @ 2150, amdxp 1600 @ 1800

a64 3000+ @ 2350, a64 3200+ @ 2510

p4 3.0c @ 3900, p4 3.0c @ 3750, p4 3.0c @ 3750, p4 3.0c @ 3650

i have had all of these within the last 2 years, many of them at the same time so i could compare side by side. i have also just ordered a new A64 3200+ rig for my 3dmark rig.

Wow you're lucky to be rich enough to afford that many CPU's in the passed two years. What's your job?

 

[Maxvla]

Wow you're lucky to be rich enough to afford that many CPU's in the passed two years. What's your job?

my job is not spending money on much else

i need to stop buying comp stuff and get some real savings going.. i just.... can't.... drag myself away

 

[doc6886]

my job is not spending money on much else

i need to stop buying comp stuff and get some real savings going.. i just.... can't.... drag myself away

Holy cow... 4x512 OCZ EB3500

 

[mage_x]

I'd say it's reasonable to expect a Mobile 2500 to run at 2.3Ghz. You said yourself that an Athlon 64 3200 would provide a noticable difference when compared to a Mobile barton @ 2.3Ghz. So lets say you stuck with an Athlon 64 3000... you're going to shell out $160 - $170 alone for the CPU. Add a 754 MB at $80 and you are paying approximately 30% more for comparable performance to an OC'd Mobile 2500.

The problem here is you're comparing the overclocked 2500 to a stock Athlon64. Once you oc the a64 the 30% higher price is more than justifiable.

 

[Maxvla]

The problem here is you're comparing the overclocked 2500 to a stock Athlon64. Once you oc the a64 the 30% higher price is more than justifiable.

finally someone else recognizes it besides me

 

[zabomb4163]

I respectfully disagree with maxvla as old nForce2 + or S versions had sound that was so good, it did not require external sound cards, unless you had special connector needs, etc. Members repeatedly posted about nForce2 sound beating Audigy cards and the like...

Anyway, nForce3 does not have it, nForce4 will in the future, but some VIA mobos may have superior sound chips onboard now, check out this old thread when the news broke:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=286461

-keep in mind that not many people have the right equipment or patience to compare sound cards. the vast majority of forum members own the cheapest speakers they could find at the local walmart. not saying there is anything wrong with owning cheap speakers. i understand everyone has priorities. what i DO think is wrong is people who only own one piece of hardware or only have access to one piece of hardware telling everyone it is the best.

Maxvla has owned nearly all of the sound chipsets on the market and has compared them to one another. this gives him a perspective that many do not have.