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Blowers vrs. fans?

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What i would be curious to know, is what kind of pressure drop off the blower fans have in comparison to the axial fans. if you blow the air through a duct before it reaches the device to be cooled, you effectivly elliminate the immediate dead spot. since blower fans produce a greater pressure load than axial fans, what is the drop off gradient for every inch of additional duct?

Clearly, the blower performs well when blowing DIRECTLY over the cpu, but assume you want to place it somewhere else in your case.

blower1.jpg


an axial fan in this case would lose quite a bit of its immediate pressure.
 
Much more than a blower would.

We might want to get away from using the term blower though... many people might consider a 10mm 1.8cfm laptop fan a 'blower'.

How about... "scary spinning blade machine"?
 
a;right heres an idea, take a small ac unit and just hook it to the top of ur case or something then make it going to a "heatsink" (threw sealed tubes) that only has 2 ways out, connect tubes to the holes for the way out and lead them to 2 different fan blowing outward which are connected to the case, this would be massive and could cool systems hardcore, but the only prob is the watts, i guesse you can just hook it to another outlet cause whocares you have the coolest running machine
 
As a side note... that's a freaking badass idea. Pick up a 2-300cfm 'compact' blower, mount it someplace 'out of the way' in your case... pipe the output ontop of a massive heatsink and blow away. That brings up all kinds of cool images...
 
vonkaar said:
You 'might' be able to adjust a 115vac motor with an AC dimmer switch but it's not actually decreasing the voltage like it would DC. Dimmer switches shorten the sine wave, effectively 'pulsing' the motor on and off. The problem with doing that to fans like that is in the cooling. They basically need to spin to cool themselves off. If you are pulsing power to it only 1/5th of the 'norm', it could get hot. Just the same, it might not even spin.

The blower on Ebay that is similar to the one in my picture would work just fine. Mine actually runs on 230v, so it's rated at a higher CFM than the one that you commonly see. The problem with that, however, is that it requires a power transformer to operate =/. C'est la vie...
:eek:
.. get hot ..
well how about 1/2 of the norm? i just want to run it quiet, not full speed.. yet, i don't want it to overheat..
 
I'm really not sure =/. The only way to see for sure is to try it out. I know that mine *will* spin on 115v, but not enough to more more than a light breeze. It also heats fairly quick. The motor on those things are about as big as your fist (unless you suffer from Gigantism, in which case I'm sorry).

I used to run a pair of Pabst 172mm AC fans over a heatercore. They were controlled pretty nicely by an AC dimmer switch. The only catch was in the startup. You had to start the motor at full speed and gradually work your way down. Once the fan has the momentum, it can keep up with momentary pulses. However, it wouldn't work anywhere below (about) 40% 'power'. It would slowly die.

As far as the 'noise' factor, they are pretty queit *anyway*. You might actually be happy with one at full speed.
 
hm.. like u think its lower then 30~35dba?
i plan to take out all my fans if i get this thing installed (except psu fans) and put this sucker in front where my radiator is.
its either that or 9 panaflo 21dba which add up to about 31 dba anyways and cost a lot too.
plus this would look nice just bulging out of my case.
 
Korndog said:

:eek:
.. get hot ..
well how about 1/2 of the norm? i just want to run it quiet, not full speed.. yet, i don't want it to overheat..

I don't see any reason it would overheat if you are trying to do the same thing I have been doing for quite some time... I have a grainger blower, the one featured in Hoot's good air/bad air article - I've got a controller between it and the wall. I usually keep it turned as low as the switch goes. It's been running for months, I never turn it off even if the PC is off because it doesn't have an on off switch so I'd have to pull the plug. Check out the attachment.

What i would be curious to know, is what kind of pressure drop off the blower fans have in comparison to the axial fans. if you blow the air through a duct before it reaches the device to be cooled, you effectivly elliminate the immediate dead spot. since blower fans produce a greater pressure load than axial fans, what is the drop off gradient for every inch of additional duct?

I think you know blowers don't have a dead spot, but just want to know about a duct so that you can put the blower someplace convenient right? (Unlike my solution) ;)

The pressure drop off for blowers is FAR better than axial fans. Axial fans are terrible against back pressure, where blower fans are terrific.
 
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And here's a pic of the blower and the duct on the other side that reaches to right above my heatsink. The computer was still on for all of these pictures and the blower is the only fan in the computer now besides stock vid card and nb fans - I took out everything else, including the PSU fan.

Here's a link to hoots article about blowers for those who are unfamiliar with it... It's the best article on OC.com IMO:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips461/
 
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wow.. very very nice
:clap:
you wouldn't happen to know the space before the mounting spot would u?
red line in the picture..
fan.gif
 
:eek:
thats no clearance at all.. lol, looks like i'm going to be cutting a lot more then just a mounting space!
thanks for the accurate measurement IMOG :p
 
I still have to insist;

Most of the blowers air will escape the easiest path out of the heatsink. (see pic at page 1 of topic, drawn as thick lines representing more air)

It's just like water, just like electricity, where the resistance is the smallest, thats where you'll find the highest flow.
For freakin' sake, take two straws of different diameters or lenght, blow into them, now tell me, where does it flow the most???

So, if you stick a blower(radial fan) ontop of a swiftech porcupine heatsink, you'll get most of the air escaping really close to the sides, just as "normal" axial fan would push the air.

The air doesn't want to force itself down to the bottom of the heatsink and then veer off 90 degrees and take an even longer route out of the heatsink.

Ofcoz, some miniscule amount of air will reach down there "in the venerable dead spot", but most of it will be trapped in vortices(as in vortex, I hope). My "?" in the picture posted above by me is where those vortices rule. We all think/know that vortices are good for heat exchange, but these ones are trapped, and not much air is rushing by to the rescue.

In my picture you can see thick lines representing where more air pass by... the thinner lines, the less air I predict will pass by...

Yes, the cooling of the dead spot IS BETTER with a blower, but so far as for practical solutions go, it has been a too high trade-off in CFM to make the idea work in practise.

Oh yes, radial fans has a potential to create better pressure, but that needs either high rpms(we know how that sounds) or bigger diameter paddle wheels(we all know already the devices are clumsy "as is").

Another factor speaking FOR AXIAL fans is the air coming of the blades is turbulent, and that turbulent air hits the fins/pins and then escapes the easy way to the sides.
The air from the radial fan is much less turbulent, of coz it might GET turbulent passing the fins/pins... but from the get-go the axial air is more turbulent.
 
... but all those problems could be solved with a shroud.. right??
i'm going to be forcing air though a radiator anyways, i could care less it when from that point (except back into the fan :eek: )
 
A radiator is a peice that will favor from a radial fan.
The air will be better distributed all over.

As opposed to the ordinary heatsink, a rad with shroud is all straight through. There is no "easier" way out of the rad, same flow resistance all over.
 
Paxmax said:
Ofcoz, some miniscule amount of air will reach down there "in the venerable dead spot", but most of it will be trapped in vortices(as in vortex, I hope). My "?" in the picture posted above by me is where those vortices rule. We all think/know that vortices are good for heat exchange, but these ones are trapped, and not much air is rushing by to the rescue.

That is almost completely incorrect.

I'll provide more research material if you want...
For now,
http://www.flotherm.com/technical_papers/t281.pdf

Read around pages 15-25... air volume at various sensors... temperature remains stabilized pretty much throughout. Heatsinks work to combat the famous 45° angle 'heat spread' (although some say it's a myth) present in most CPU applications. It's true that the main cooling is needed directly over the die, but a commonly misunderstood idea is that it is *only* where it is needed. There is a reason why so many heatsinks are designed to branch 'out' from the center of the source (of heat). Heat has a tendency to travel 'out' in a (somewhat) fixed 45° angle. Providing ample airflow over the entire surface of the heatsink is critical... This is something that axial fans struggle with due to the (often) large "dead area" caused by the size of the axle / motor.

You are picturing the airflow in a 'too fluid' manner. Air will go where it's placed (within at least a minor degree of error). This is especially true in a 'pin' style heatsink. If you are covering the entire top-surface of the heatsink in 'equal' (relatively speaking) airflow, the bottom (baseplate) will receive the same airflow, only slightly disrupted by the pins. Where the air goes from there is dictated by a lot more than 'path of least resistance'.

If your model of physics were correct, passive heatsinks would do very little in a computer. If the airflow 'dodges' the paths of 'higher resistance', or becomes trapped in vortices, the cooling would be limited. The airflow (even in an open system) *will* explore all venues of escape. Of course, that's excluding examples of a system under negative air-pressure. My point is, the air will go where you put it and escape *from there* by whatever means it finds. Naturally it's a bit easier on the sides... that's simple aerodynamics. In short... the problem that axial fans present in the 'dead spot' *is* reduced by providing equal airflow which blowers excel at.
 
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